Advice needed by a guy

[tawaanchu]

Hi,

I am not sure if its a right platform to post but I needed an honest advice. I shall be very grateful for a response.

I'm a 21 -year-old guy. I am a virgin and I find it incredibly hard to talk to girls. I have had many female friends, even my closest friends have been women but when it comes to taking it to next level (dating), I don't know what to do. I have never had any girlfriend or even kissed a girl I used to like a girl very much, we were very good friends and when I told, she said that she considers me as her best friend. I respected it and we are still very good friends but now she has found a boyfriend. It makes me feel very down and sad. I genuinely loved her and think best of her but seeing her with someone else makes me feel very low and rejected.
It has been a miserable life so far and often I feel sexually frustrated. I have thought about many times of seeing an escort and getting the feel of sex. It just seems impossible for me to take my friendship with a girl to a relationship level. I have only asked girl out once (that I like her). I have many female friends but almost most of them see me as a good friend. I'm highly anxious that if I tell a girl that I like her, she would get offended and could lead to disastrous and awkward situations. I would say I am a popular and decent looking guy and if I talk to girls, they dont air or ignore me. I have taken out girls for dinner or even food but then we end up being friends. I am properly stuck in friend zone.

I don't know what to do about it. I'm in university and I see my friends enjoying, feeling loved by their girlfriends etc while me on the other hand don't enjoy the warmth and love of opposite gender. I feel incredibly nervous infront of girls that I really fancy which leads to quite awkward situations. I have only told one girl that I liked her (which was my best friend as abobe). I see my friends asking girls out in mins and next moment they start dating. While on other hand I'm still hanging around like an idiot and dont know how to flirt. My female friends consider me the nicest guy they have met but only I know how low it feels to be friend-zoned while they talk about their sexual experiences.

I have an extrovert nature with my friends (including normal female friends) and in order to act as a cool person, I lie that I am not a virgin and have slept with many women. But deep down I feel so frustrated and I think I will forever stay single. I am very tempted to see an escort and get a sexual experience as I am very sexually frustrated.

This has been affecting me a lot. Any advice will be really appreciated.

I am sorry if its not relevant to this forum

I think you need to learn to read the signals women give out when they like you. Because they will have done so - you just didn't notice. It's like a dance - you or she display what could be interest. The other reciprocates in a small wsy. Then the other goes a bit further and on it goes until there's no doubt. Signs include

• proximity. Making sure they are near you.
• looking at you and listening intently to what you say.
• touching their hair, flicking it, laughing at what you say
• asking if you are single
• leaning closer

If you're not sure pay a compliment - just build it into a conversation and make it quick. Nothing about their body maybe about their hair or eyes or something clever/funny they said. They will take it in and then will either start showing small signs of interest or not. If they do then a few personal questions (nothing too intrusive). A few subtle compliments about what they are saying. If they move a little closer and pay close attention then another compliment and move a little closer yourself.

Many a man has moved himself onto my radar (and out of the friend zone) with small compliments and then I've noticed whenever I turn around he's just there. Nearby. If I try to talk to him he makes very sure he talks to me and ignores other people. Particularly women 😂.

Stop thinking about you and start watching other people. Learn to see the signs both to you, and to other guys, from women. You won't be a virgin fir long.

And don't ffs get caught up in the game or that shitty pulling course (can't remember the name). Or escorts. I would not want to be with someone that lost their virginity to an escort.

It sounds as if you might be suffering from a bit of low level anxiety. Not uncommon at all.

Would you perhaps see if you could find someone through Uni that is recommended for therapy.
They could perhaps help you with strategies to cope with this and get you over this self consciousness that you feel is holding you back.
👍

Don’t think that you have to look like a Greek god to get a girlfriend. You totally don’t.

Men get turned on by what they see. Women fancy men because of the kind of person that they are: good sense of humour, empathy, friendly, caring, romantic, sensible, generous, kind, cuddly.

You could be ‘pot ugly‘ but if you are a nice genuine person who is quick to smile and likes a good laugh you are perfectly capable of getting a good looking girlfriend. So you may not think you are gods gift but I bet you have nice eyes and what you think are not strengths she may find attractive.

It’s about being compatible with someone who thinks like you and wants the same things, enjoys the same hobbies or music etc.

Smelling nice, looking clean, and wearing antiperspirant is always a plus too when out and about. You never know who you’ll meet at a club or association (after cv of course).

Hi @tawaanchu! What do you want? Do you just want to have sex or do you want a girlfriend (and a loving sexual relationship)? I often think that I am so glad to be out of my 20's as dating etc is exhausting! I agree with PP that good personal hygiene goes a long way, and I'd add clean hands and short clean fingernails (always something I looked at before I met DH).

It sounds like you're getting stuck on progressing from friendship to dating, and perhaps you're afraid of overstepping and ruining good friendships? There's always going to be a risk when you make a move; it might sound childish but what about starting with holding hands? On my first date with my husband, we shared a pizza and he held my hand on the way back to the train. If I hadn't been interested, I'd have dropped it like a hot rock!

Don't worry about being a virgin - when the time comes, as long as you are both considerate and listen to each other' preferences, you'll be fine.

It’s good that you have female friends, because it shows you can relate to women as people, not just potential conquests.

They can be your allies here, so confide in them and ask for their help and advice on how to get over the hurdle of being constantly friend zoned. You need to learn how to let women know that you find them attractive and are interested in dating them. Most women still expect the man to take the lead and take the initiative. That might not sound very feminist, but it’s the truth.

Good luck!

Just be genuine and be yourself. You don't need to be like your male friends. You just have to be you. The problem is you are looking for someone within your inner circle and you trapped between your so called reputation and being friends.

Leave these girls as just that, friends. I would date away from your inner circle. That way, if you do rejected, it isn't known about. But I reckon if you keep trying and practicing on women you like, eventually your confidence to talk to them will grow.

But please don't lose who you are. Don't become one of these idiots who crack on every girl they see and become a sex pest. You sound like such a great guy and someone will be lucky to have you!!

As your male buds and girl buds to ask around and set you up with someone out of your circle. If you're as popular as you say you are, I bet there are a few eyes on you and you don't even know it because you don't know the signals. It will happen!!

But yes to the poster who says desperation puts people off
Act calm and confident at all times. You will get there

Why don't you apply for the next series of First Dates? They say they meticulously match all of the couples and there would be no doubt about your intentions because the whole point is that you're on a date.

You're either going to have to wait patiently or think outside the box.

OP you talk as if a female friend declining sex/romance with you is somehow a "rejection" that places you in some kind of lower bracket. It isn't. Platonic friendship is not supposed to be the holding area from which women select sexual partners - it's just a different form of intimacy, no better or worse.

You are 21. It sounds like you're anxious - lots of people are. My ex was you - he lied about having other partners - he had an obsession with avoiding being embarrassed and felt that everyone thought he was awful - don't be him, he has ruined his life by obsessing about how awful he is and is now in his 40s still complaining about how he can't shag every woman he meets. It's the absolute worst.

You simply need to online date - you need to make yourself available to women who are looking for what you want. I completely disagree with you saying that only very good looking men succeed on dating apps - you're making excuses based on your existing insecurities. If you keep making these excuses, you're just going to end up alone, and blaming horrible old women rejecting you, rather than just admitting to yourself that you isolated yourself due to fear of rejection.

I actively avoid very handsome men, irl and in online dating. Many women do. I've only ever sought out men who are interesting, who aren't desperate to please, and who have strong morals that are expressed in their behaviour. I would say you probably have the latter, but you are likely to need to work on caring less about other people and having a mission in life of your own, outside of trying to get into bed with girls.

Another thing - If you are seeking out very very pretty girls in online dating, then you are more likely to be rejected simply because very attractive people tend only to date each other - there is nothing wrong with that, it's just the way primates do things.

Do you have a life purpose?
Do you have a strong identity of your own?
Are you working towards a higher goal than being attractive to women?
What in your behaviour shows a commitment to a higher good?
... if you don't have clear answers to those questions, then you're really unlikely to attract a happy, confident partner tbh.

First I would like to give you some good news. You like women and women like you. You have lots of female friends, you are scared of disrespecting them or being seen as a jerk. I can’t tell you how positive that all is for women. If your female friends got in a group to chat about you they all sound like they would give you high praise and compliments. You may not understand this yet but having successful relationships is based on your ability to have really good friendships. A good relationship is not just about sex it’s about being friends and showing love and care in so many ways.

You care about people and their feelings. That is super attractive and sexy for women. So you actually have so much going for you and are already succeeding where lots of men are failing. So you have all the potential to create really loving and passionate relationships.

You do seem to have unconsciously been missing lots of signals from women who would be willing to take it to the next level with you. I will give you a very strong clue that a woman is open to a relationship with you. When you are enjoying their company and you are both laughing (a form of flirting and definitely a good sign) move in and subtlety touch her. The touch can be putting your hand on her arm, brushing some hair from her face or something very simple and non sexual. If the women recoils from you - she is not interested. If the woman doesn’t seem to mind at all and smiles at you that is a very strong clue that she is interested in you romantically NOT ALWAYS but this is giving you a clue. When a girl or boy is sexually/romantically interested In someone they are VERY aware of being touched by that person.

If the girl is still happy and smiling you might give her a genuine compliment such as “you have a lovely smile” “you look great tonight” “I am so glad you decided to come out tonight”. Be direct. She will realise you are flirting, if she runs away then she is not interested but if she smiles and laughs she is probably interested. Also an invitation to spend time alone with you is another one. You could ask her “would you like to come and hang out with me tomorrow?” If she asks if anyone else would be there ask her “do you want anyone else to be there?” and smile at her in a cheeky way. Again if she changes the subject she probably isn’t interested but a girl who is interested will be delighted and will keep talking.

You need to recognize friendly banter from flirting. Maybe if there is a girl right now that you are interested in, talk to a couple of your girl friends and tell them “I am really interested in X. Do you think she would go out with me?” People often love to set their friends up and you can tell your friends you can’t tell if she is interested. You need to tell people clearly that your interest is romantic because you may have 4 girls who are all interested and you are clueless.

If you are popular and have lots of friends then you are doing everything right, you just need to understand that women will not be offended by you telling them you like them. It’s guys who grab women’s breasts or do something overtly sexual that women can’t stand. Just honestly showing you like someone is not offensive. Please don’t go to an escort. One of my best friends confessed that he went to an escort one time, when he was telling me he started to cry because he said he hated it and hated himself afterwards. An experience with an escort is nothing like a loving sexual relationship with a woman who wants to be with you.

He found an incredibly attractive Italian girlfriend and they have been married for decades and are very happy. But when we were friends in our early 20s he was a fair skinned guy with red hair who may have been hard on himself. But he was still cute looking and he is hilarious and always fun to be around. It was just a matter of time until he found a woman who appreciated him.

I would agree that personality and confidence is very important to women. Being kind is always a good thing. Just don’t be a doormat, know that you are equal to your friends and to the women around you. If you like a woman look at her, see if she holds your gaze. Don’t stare at her in a creepy way, but look at her and smile. If she smiles and looks away she probably like you.

A simple flirting technique: give a woman a genuine nice compliment and then afterwards back off with a little light banter (nothing that takes any from the compliment) to prevent it becoming awkward. Don’t get super intense and give one compliment after another, which feels very full on and even a woman who like you can feel uncomfortable. You may not be such accomplished flirts as Russell Brand and Craig Ferguson but you’re can understand why they are successful and women enjoy flirting with them.

The following I lifted from a website, it’s very American but the basic ideas are the same. I have numbered parts of the paragraphs to make sure the points are clear:

1. Value yourself and don’t put women on a pedestal because of their physical attractiveness but get to know them and make sure that they are right for you.
2. Use relaxed banter that’s light and humorous as a way to get to know women, don’t be too intense.
3. Be genuine and have integrity. Hold your own opinions and don’t be afraid to disagree. It shows you have self confidence. You show you are secure and are not insecure looking for approval.

“How to avoid being sleazy with women (with a slight shift in attitude)

1. So before you even approach a woman, it’s a good idea to ensure that you don’t have her up on a pedestal. Keep in mind that looks are just a small piece of what makes women attractive and ask yourself: “okay, she’s hot, but what else does she have going for her?” Is she fun? Is she caring? Does she have an interesting life? Having standards like this will take her off the pedestal and automatically ease some approach anxiety. It will also help you to naturally come across as a high-value man who is selective and confident with women, which will get more women attracted to you.

2. Now, there is a trick to how to go about finding the answers to these questions. You don’t want to come out of the gate asking them as that can be overwhelming. Instead, when you first start a conversation with a girl, get the ball rolling with some fun, playful banter, that will create a relaxed and safe atmosphere and from there you can ask questions that will have her proving to you that she has more going for her than her looks. Questions like “what kind of adventures have you been up to lately”, “so what’s your deal?”, or “what do you do for fun” will keep a fun, light vibe while giving you a chance to learn more about her.

By asking qualification questions like this, you challenge her to prove that she’s more than just a pretty face. That kind of challenge will only make you more attractive to the girl – and in itself can be enough to get her chasing you.

What women want in a man

3. Another thing that turns women off and makes them feel uneasy about a guy is when a guy appears “fake” – when his words and actions are incongruent with who he is and what he’s feeling. On the other hand, women are attracted to a guy who does the opposite, and shows integrity.

Showing integrity is as simple as standing by your thoughts/opinions/feelings – however, many guys slip up here. They think that to get a woman to like you, you need to agree with everything she says. But that’s not the case. A guy who is afraid to disagree with a woman just shows insecurity, neediness, and a lack of integrity. But by sticking to your guns and being willing to disagree with the girl, you actually become more attractive to women. It shows you’re not seeking approval, and that you’re a secure man who has confidence with women.

Here’s an example of what showing the integrity that women find attractive might look like: If you love Schwarzenegger movies and the girl you’re interested in or her friends say his movies are stupid, don’t start backtracking and say you don’t really like them either. Instead, stand up for yourself (and do it with a smile). Use it as an opportunity to have a bit of fun and start some playful banter with the girl. Maybe respond with something like “What!? Don’t you like Schwarzenegger movies? That’s it, this isn’t working out, I want a divorce. You can keep the beach house, but I want the boat. You never used that thing anyway…”

You have to get over the fear of rejection, it really isnt that bad. Easier said than done, I know.

If you make it clear that you're into somebody quite soon (but not too soon) its a lot easier. Dont pressure them with questions or whatever, just make your feelings clear respectfully.

@tawaanchu - there's no shame in being a virgin - some women love virgins.

I am currently in a 3 year relationship with a guy who was in your position before we started dating (although he chose to remain a virgin for religious reasons).

Be honest with your friends about your situation. Ask them to help set you up on dates and some lovely lady will be the right person for you.

13 body language signs a woman is interested

May I ask your family background? What kind of family you grew up from? Any siblings, did you parents get on well, did they show the children they loved each other in front of the kids? The childhood experience sometimes plays a role here

My guess is you are waiting too long to make a romantic move. Usually if a man is interested romantically he is going to show the signs relatively early on in a relationship. He flirts and looks for her response. My guess is you are attracted to women but not picking up on their signals so they assume you are not interested and you both friend zone each other. If you don't flirt and don't understand when women are flirting you can't move your relationship into a romantic stage.

That doesn't mean it's too late. You just need to give them signals again. For example you have a close friend who you would love to be romantic with. Maybe the feeling is mutual but how do you know? You have to give her signals and see if she responds, so you are going to do things friends don't usually do. For example, give her compliments, the kind a compliments boyfriends give, not friends who are boys. So when you see her say "that top looks amazing on you" she may be startled and laugh, she may even say "are you flirting with me?" Then you say "maybe I am" and smile at her. Just something as simple as that gives her a signal you have romantic interest. Now if she is not interested she will very likely shut you down kindly but quickly and say something like "I don't see you that way" but if she is still smiling and giving you eye contact again she may be encouraging you to keep flirting. Maybe then you can try and move very subtly a bit closer to her. If she backs off, looks away etc. she is not interested. Here are some concrete ways you can know if a woman is showing you she is interested

n order to act as a cool person, I lie that I am not a virgin and have slept with many women.

Don't do this, how do you think it comes across? A lot of girls don't want to date a 'player.' You don't have to go into any detail about your past unless you start a relationship with them.

Claiming to have slapped it about will also not attract someone on your wavelength.

I have a phobia that my entire reputation will go down.

Imagine how it'll effect your reputation if you do see a prostitute. You would have to keep it secret from so many women, and you'd always have to be hiding what you did. It's not attractive in a man to most women.

There's something wrong about how you're talking about being 'friend zoned' and stuff. Womankind don't owe you a shag. I think if you stopped thinking that way you'd feel happier as you wouldn't feel that you aren't getting something that you deserve.

As to dating sites, you could try more of a range of sites. I find Tinder seems particularly preoccupied with looks, so many people on there look beautiful that I'm intimidated. You could also try PlentyOfFish - I found people looked more normal on there.

"Womankind don't owe you a shag" you are being harsh Nomoredickheads the OP seems to be excessively worried about offending women and doing something that would ruin his friendships, so he doesn't come over as entitled at all. He seems very self-aware and understands that he needs to change his behavior but is not sure how.

Plenty of men and women struggle with early relationships and are not sure how to make the first move without it being awkward, that doesn't make him someone who thinks he "deserves" a relationship. My eldest child is almost 20 so I am around a lot of young adults, some just need practical, concrete feedback to learn how to have a successful relationship.

Firstly thank you everyone for your responses. I am so overwhelmed with the amount of care you all have shown. I greatly appreciate every one of your responses.

A big thank you to @TangibleTuTu for writing it out in detail. I am so grateful for your response and this has made me feel a lot better and has helped me change my perspective.

I think a lot of it comes from the fact that I have mostly been surroudned by women. I am very close to my mum and have two elder sisters. Whilst growing up, I used to hang out with them, their female friends and even in school/college most of my friends were women. I used to hear them talking about men, like how creepy men were acting by approaching them, initiating conversations etc and I have held this image that taking relationship with girls to next level will make it look bad. I did not want to be a gossip and a laughing stock among girls that how I approached one of them and how they rejected me.
My best friend was a girl and I was in madly love with her for more than 2 years, she was the only one I decided to tell that I liked her. I told her that in a long message on how much she means to me, but however she said that she considered me as her best friend. I promised her that I would never let my feelings affect our friendship by any means and we still talk to each other. She keeps sending me 'i love you' 'i miss you' and even told me that I am the best guy she has ever met. Seeing her with her bf makes me feel so low and literally makes me sound dumbest person around.

In front of other girls that I meet, I till date have never initiated anything romantic. I do tell the ones I fancy that they are pretty etc but that's it. I end up being good friends with them. I go on for food, coffee etc with girls but then due to the fear of looking like a creep and protecting my reputation, I have never initiated anything. It has now come to a point that most of my best friends are girls and it is so common for them to say 'i love you' but nothing more than that. I have asked their opinion with the ones that I trust and they tell me that I need to stop being nice. I just dont know where to draw a line. I become so anxious to talk to a girl romanticlly as I get worried that she may find it creepy. I have had female friends come to my flat, watch movie with me and NOTHING has ever happened. While my guy friends go out to a club or even call someone home, they end up hooking up and so do my female friends. In order to act cool, I act like I am not a virgin but it does not help me :(

I feel so stupid and naive. Not only this, when I see my best friend with her boyfriend whom I loved for more than two years, it just makes me so so sad and worthless. I have been feeling so low and this lockdown makes it worse :(

Ok let's be honest and practical. Are there any girls RIGHT NOW that you like enough that you would be interested in a romantic relationship with them? Who are they? How do you know them?

Yes @TangibleTuTu there are. I would say they all are in my uni, I have got them added on social media and they have added me back, even like my posts.

I would be anxious to direct message them, even if I did by bringing up some topic, I would be awkward in proceeding the chat. I would run out of the topics to talk on and would feel that the chat is getting boring. I would also be romantic or creep as I know they are in my uni and could damage my reputation among my friends.

would also be hesitant to be romantic

Also don't worry too much about what girls say, just like boys have their own banter together. Both groups can exaggerate anecdotes for effect when telling a story. When a girl fancies someone she's not going to be offended if he chats to her or approaches her.

Have you watched "Normal People" on BBC3 about a relationship that started in high school and carried on through college? Or as some people call it "sad, hot people having sex?" 😄 It has all the hallmarks of first relationships, the awkwardness and trying to connect and then screwing up the relationship from bad communication. Lots of on again off again. The male character Connell manages to completely screw up the relationship by being so anxious in high school. You at least have what seems to be a lot of emotional intelligence.

Of course, the female character is not shy in making it very clear she likes him. But he still has to ask her "when you said you 'liked me' was that just as a friend, or what?"