I don't want to live with OH's brother

[Dingdong99]

DH and I have two small kids together and have been together for 10 years

He has one sibling, a 36 year old brother, who still lives with his parents as he has SEN. His parents are getting on a bit now and I'm concerned about what the future is for his brother, and where he will end up living once his parents pass away

I have recently been stressing a lot about him coming to have to live with us, to the point that I cannot sleep at night and am only getting a few hours each night

This is a very difficult subject for me to talk about with DH, as he is extremely defensive over his brother (understandably), and we have literally only talked about it twice, ever. Both times went very badly, but the upshot is that DH says he'll have to live with us

I've managed to speak to my in-laws about this and while they say he won't have to live with us, the have made no moves to move him out

I just don't think him living with us will do anyone any good - my DH and him bicker and argue constantly when they see each other, and I know it's selfish but I just won't want to have to live with anyone that's not my DH or kids!

I'm going around in circles in my head constantly atm and it's really worrying me. Not sure what to do or how to approach talking about it. I'm scared to bring it up with DH again in case it's blows up and he tells me again he'll have to live with us

Oh right so you can take help from family but don’t want to give it.

I think if he had to move out in the event of both of his parents dying, that would be harder as he would be so upset to lose his home and parents at the same time

You're absolutely right, which is why the time to manage this is before a crisis arises, but your IL's comments about BIL having social housing suggests they think he could live alone ... is that so, or are they being unrealistic?

Either way you're NBU at all to refuse to care for him yourself, but that'll need a very straight conversation with your DH. I only hope he'll engage with you and that it won't have to come to an ultimatum

OP, can you please answer pp questions?

Sorry for the delayed reply

I don't think that having my inlaws help us with the kids in the short term should mean that OH and I are obligated to take their son in for years...while I am very grateful for their help (and tell them this all the time), this is hardly the same

I actually spoke to my MiL again about it last night and again she said that they'd have to declare him homeless to get him supported living, and he could then end up in a different borough. This seems odd to me but I couldn't really say that wasn't the case

She said she doesn't expect him to have to live with us, but equally doesn't have a plan. I expressed my concerns but she didn't have an answer or solution

Currently he has carers come in a few times a week to help him tidy his bedroom, take him shopping etc so he is already under adult social care but just for a few hours a month

I’m not a social worker, however I have known parents who have needed to declare their adult child as homeless to access appropriate provision. It’s not as harsh or dramatic as it seems. His social worker discussed small handful of placements and types of placements with parents/client and yes most were anything from half an hour walk to two hours drive away. Social services are pushed to find the cheapest placement for each person so prefer to keep clients in area rather then in other counties. Also links to the local community do count and you can stress their importance for mental health and wellbeing. In your shoes think about what your BIL needs to be happy and as independent as possible. Think about the level of support your DH can offer BIL each week while BIL is in local rather then distant supported accommodation (support processing his PIP, support with a food shop, support with cleaning, support with cooking, support with socialising and meeting others, support with paid work or volunteering). Supported accommodation could be very rewarding and fulfilling for your BIL. Ensure he visits a few options as they are all very different. Trained carers and peers and independence adds to quality of living. Your DH probably thinks he’s the best option because he has no knowledge of any other provision. Social services like this as it’s cheaper and money saving.

What does your BIL do daytime? Does he work or volunteer or have other community or learning links? Would be good to build up local links now and for DH to take an active role in weekly support - taking him to a social club for people with disabilities and supported food shop with planning and cooking lessons.

Ask your ILs to start the ball rolling now so that BIL doesn’t have to face the double whammy of loosing his parents and starting a new supported living placement. Tell his family how concerned you are about this and ask them if it would put their minds at rest to see him settled before poor health

Do they own their home? If the home is left to the son with SEN then he wold be able to sell it and fund a smaller place somewhere maybe in a borough of his choosing?

Good ideas from porridgeoat, maybe his mum could atrt testing the water with social groups to see where he would be supported, its not a full moving out but a start.

Thank you porridge. He's furloughed atm but usually works part time as a kitchen porter

The other issue is that he really doesn't want to move out, and both he and his parents still have a lot of abandonment issues from when he was small and they had to send him to a special needs boarding school far away. My MIL still gets upset when she talks about it and think if she declares him homeless, all those feelings will flood back

OP,
You sound stressed because your husband sounds like a bully and is dismissive of your concerns.

I can imagine it is possible to be supportive of your BIL without moving him in.

Quietly check things out yourself but your husband does not sound nice.

Your two children are your priority and I would be aware that your husband could indeed just move his brother in because your views clearly don't count.

That would be my bigger concern, being married to a bully.

Protect yourself.

They are quite hard up - they'd love to buy him a local one bed but that's not an option for them financially

You MiL needs to talk to social workers, There is no reason whatsoever why going into supported housing should be like her experience years ago of sending her son to a residential special school a long way away. If they start planning now the chances are that he can get into somewhere reasonably local so she can keep an eye on things and see him regularly. Really she is doing him no favours keeping him dependent on his parents.

Thank you for your concern billy but he's not a bully at all, and I am very able to stand up for myself

It's just a sensitive subject and DH is very protective of his brother, and finds it hard to talk about

I've managed to speak to my in-laws about this and while they say he won't have to live with us, the have made no moves to move him out

I can't claim to know much about it, but I don't think many people with an adult child with SEN who lives with them move the person out before they have to (i.e before they die or are completely incapable of having them there.) I suppose it would depend on the severity of the person's SEN, but the person could see that as a rejection etc, and also the parents worry about them and want to keep an eye on them/do their bit for as long as they can.

Glad to hear he has adult social care coming in.

In most places, supported housing is quite limited and so there aren't many units, just a few scattered through the city and not all will have places. So yes, someone could end up in one in an area they don't know.

I don't know the guy but maybe how it would work is social care gradually do more as your ILs become less able to?

If one of the PILs, say, falls and breaks a hip or something then they could have a problem caring for him. That might be your route to getting them to broaden how much external support they take up.

Your MIL might be open to the idea that it would be far more damaging for an unprepared BIL to suddenly be forced into completely new living arrangements (even if those were with you and DH) when some bad event finally happens.

You could even suggest he stays at your for the odd few days to give them a break. Don't panic! This is where you make damn sure DH takes the brunt of the downsides. It also stretches the apron strings so MIL and BIL get used to the idea of him being elsewhere and then you can look at alternative housing with him.

Long slow transition rather than short urgent transition will help BIL. Say that to MIL and DH.

I would stop talking about it if I was you.
I think you are being entirely reasonable however this is not your son/brother and you don’t have a lifetime of love/guilt affecting your emotions. You are asking them all to imagine a very painful time in the future and there is no real way that you don’t come out as the bad guy.
I suspect that when it reaches a point that your brother needs to live with you things will have changed and your husband will be rationally able to see it’s not a good idea. But at the moment you are asking him to promise that he won’t be there for his brother when their parents die. However rational your argument he will struggle to agree to this.
There was a lot of conversations about my BIL father moving in when them however when the time came he needed additional care and decided himself to go into supported living.
I fully understand your concerns but I think you should try to let it go for now. 💐

BILs long standing hotel porter job is something that social services would understand needs to be maintained in the event of parental death.

Your inlaws and DH really aren't helping themselves here; more to the point they're not helping your BIL either, and it's pretty clear the real intention is for you to care for him, no doubt with a side helping of "well what could we dooooo"

I've been through this myself and can't improve on the excellent advice PPs have given for how to broach the subject - but broach it you'll have to, because otherwise there's going to be a crisis which will please nobody

Puzzled - what happened with your situation?

@stairgates depends how severe the Sen is.If he has on concept of money or his surroundings it would be easy for someone to get him to sign it away.Unfortuntayely there are people like that.

Would he actually need to live with you though? What kind of help does he need?

@TorkTorkbam, I know a man with severe Learning disabilities who is his mums carer. He can cook and clean etc. She is worried for his future, but won't get anything in place as he is her carer. It feels wrong to me that he's doing it with no choices

Dingdong99 my own situation involved my son with significant SEN; he went to a specialist college which meant living away from home from 17 - 20, and we realised that he'd lose much of the independence he'd gained if he came home again

Mindful that his future needed settling long term we pushed for supported living, and addressed Adult Social Services predictable foot-dragging with an outright refusal to have him home in order to get things moving

Happily, he's since progressed from a shared flat to a flat on his own and now a small house all to himself, and couldn't be more settled or content. Believe me we made mistakes along the way, but the one big thing we did get right was to keep our eyes on the main issue and insist that his future had to be sorted while we were still around to influence things

Sorry, Dingdong - I should have added that, in doing all the above, we faced hell and damnation from other family members, grandparents in particular. Apparently we were "turning our backs on him", "had lost the right to even call ourselves parents" and worse

Those grandparents are no longer with us, but I often wish they could see DS now ... not to say "I told you so", but just so they could see how happy DS is, and how well it can all be made to work if the will's there

Oh, and I can't tell you how often the staff have mentioned DS doing such-and-such, and we've said "he'll never cope with that!!" Only he can and does - because now he's got the independence we could so easily have squashed by having him home again

Oh right so you can take help from family but don’t want to give it

It’s really not the same at all, is it?