I don't want to live with OH's brother

[Dingdong99]

DH and I have two small kids together and have been together for 10 years

He has one sibling, a 36 year old brother, who still lives with his parents as he has SEN. His parents are getting on a bit now and I'm concerned about what the future is for his brother, and where he will end up living once his parents pass away

I have recently been stressing a lot about him coming to have to live with us, to the point that I cannot sleep at night and am only getting a few hours each night

This is a very difficult subject for me to talk about with DH, as he is extremely defensive over his brother (understandably), and we have literally only talked about it twice, ever. Both times went very badly, but the upshot is that DH says he'll have to live with us

I've managed to speak to my in-laws about this and while they say he won't have to live with us, the have made no moves to move him out

I just don't think him living with us will do anyone any good - my DH and him bicker and argue constantly when they see each other, and I know it's selfish but I just won't want to have to live with anyone that's not my DH or kids!

I'm going around in circles in my head constantly atm and it's really worrying me. Not sure what to do or how to approach talking about it. I'm scared to bring it up with DH again in case it's blows up and he tells me again he'll have to live with us

I’m surprised you are having this conversation now. I’ve known a few people with a special needs sibling and anyone they considered getting serious with had to be completely on-board with the sibling living with them eventually.

I think it's a moot point at the moment. Who knows what's going to happen in the future?! You're arguing and stressing about something that hasn't happened yet - or might not happen!

PIL might live till they're 100, the brother might not want to live with you, or, sorry but you and your DH might break up before that, especially if you carry on obsessing like this. I really think this is a waste of your head space until it's actually happening...

Has anyone asked OH's brother what he wants. I can't imagine the constant bickering you describe would be very good for a SEN person's mental health in the long run.

It's ok your DH saying his DB will have to live with you but I suspect that in his head it just means YOU will be the one actually looking after him.

I hope my son with SEN isn’t put in this position by his siblings future spouses. I often think if something happens to me he will have to be looked after by his siblings (which they’d want to do). Perhaps you should be more supportive and worry about it at the time. He’s not even coming to live with you yet !

I'm torn between thinking that this is something that needs addressing now while they are healthy and can see him settled (as that could take a long while and take a few different attempts for example), and thinking it's not relevant until one or both of them are incapacitated

But I think if he had to move out in the event of both of his parents dying, that would be harder as he would be so upset to lose his home and parents at the same time

Has your husband elaborated on what bil living with you would entail? I 100% understand why you don’t want him to move in with you and though I’m sure it is driven by emotion it is not acceptable for you husband to just decide by himself on such a huge decision and refuse to communicate with you properly about it.

As all have said, a very frank discussion must be had, and at the end of the day he simply cannot move your bil into your home without your consent.

You really really need to speak to your dh about it. You being scared of talking to him is a problem in itself.

Does he have any idea how stressed and anxious you are? Maybe start by talking about that.

Ask the in-laws whether they have arranged a care assessment with social services and looked into arrangements for him to move into supported accommodation, for his own good.

I'm torn between thinking that this is something that needs addressing now while they are healthy and can see him settled (as that could take a long while and take a few different attempts

This, in a nutshell. I absolutely agree that this needs addressing now rather than waiting for the parents to become ill. Supported living is totally different to getting social housing. One family I know have an autistic son and he lives in an apartment complex for people with special needs, so he lives fairly independently but has a key worker who supports him. I guess it all depends on what your BIL needs are, if I were you I'd do some research into what he might be entitled to (this isn't really your job, but at least you'll have some facts and possibilities to present your DH with)

What your PILs have said about housing is basically true for 'ordinary'/non vulnerable young adult men, but not necessarily so for those with serious disabilities and learning difficulties. Is your BIL under the care of the adults with learning disabilities department of the local social services? They should be able to assess him and decide what level of care and assistance he needs and whether some kind of supported living is a suitable option for him (there are various options with different levels of support from 24/7 one to one care for the highest level of need to more light touch supervision for people who are largely able to live independently but need some help with bills and shopping or whatever)- this doesn't come for free of course, usually the person has to pay a contribution but if they have no income it can come from benefits, which the social workers can help you apply for. He might well have to wait for a suitable placement particularly one that is local but all the more reason to kick the process off now. If he is not already on the radar of social services his LD consultant or GP should be able to refer him.

Lots of parents of adult children with learning disabilities don't engage with social services and just manage fine on their own, some people particularly those of an older generation are even super suspicious thinking the person with LD will be 'put away' but really the exact opposite is true, unfortunately due to cutbacks social services are usually only too keen to leave people living with family even in quite unsuitable circumstances. You do often have to be a bit pushy about getting him the help and support he is entitled to, but I really think in your case it is worth it to start now. For so many reasons, assuming he'll just keep living at home until your PILs become unable to look after him and then he'll move to you is not fair, you and DH may not be able to look after him, he may not want to come and live with you or even if he does it could be extremely unsettling and upsetting for him to make that transition particularly if it has to happen overnight in the context of a bereavement or serious illness, and there could well be a long period where your PILs are getting gradually older and frailer and less able to look after him, impacting on his quality of life and theirs really badly.

With all that in mind and knowing that most state services cogs take a while to grind into action, can you try and persuade DH and his PILs to get a proper assessment done for your BIL to see (a) what support could be provided while he is still living at home, maybe he could have carers visit to take him out, or go to a day centre if he doesn't already do these things and (b) see what the process might be for him moving to independent supported living, how long it might take to get a suitable placement etc. I would also strongly recommend your PILs take some financial advice about how any money they might have to leave could be best arranged in their wills to support BIL's future (whilst being fair to you and DH and any other children of course), there are special trusts that can be established to ensure he still gets benefits etc but again it's no good sticking heads in the sand and waiting until they are incapacitated or dead to try and sort things out.

Good luck!

Maxelly - you have hit the nail on the head. Thank you so much everyone for your replies, it's is greatly appreciated

While you're there does sound like the perfect (if not pleasant) opportunity to prompt your DH and PIL into discussing this with each other. You need not be involved. Just light the fuse and stand back! (Or build a large bonfire underneath them, metaphorically, by stating all those concerns about the future and asking if they have a clear, well-made plan). You can make it clear how concerned you are, while also making it clear that his living with you is not an option.

They'd be crazy and really irresponsible, not to get this all sorted out while they're capable of doing so.

In my extended family there was the awful situation where the adult son with SEN ended up gradually becoming the carer for his elderly parents. He was completely incapable of this. Nobody realised for ages because the elderly parents helped to cover it up or maybe didn't even realy notice how bad their lives had become. Nobody in that house wanted adult social services involvement. They started blocking extended family visits because people kept trying to get them help yet they wanted no services involved. It all ended badly for the parents who died in unpleasant circumstances. The adult son ended up in sheltered housing where he has a lovely life, is very happy and has been taught to be much more independent.

Lack of social service involvement when everyone was fit and well was a big mistake. The family has a weird atittude to social services.

You have to decide if this is a deal breaker for you, and if it is you need to spell out a clear ultimatum.to your OH. If it isn't a deal breaker than you need to put up and shut up.

Wow, you are happy to take the help your in laws can provide, moving in with them, but are not prepared to help out with his brother at some point in the future

Imagine it’s your child you had SEN, not sure how serious the brothers disability is, or they were disabled in some way and their siblings partner said they are not coming to live with us, how would that make you feel

It’s difficult, and you need a serious discussion with all parties, but just remember how abandoned his brother may feel

No worries, I really don't think this needs to be a big horrible argument between you and DH/PILs - I know you have an ulterior motive about not wanting your BIL living with you (which personally I think is fair enough, it is a big commitment to take on the full time care of someone with LD for the rest of their lives, wonderful for those that are able to do so but not everyone is) - but are you able or would it be helpful to frame the conversation more as getting BIL the support and help he is entitled to from the state, and therefore being mainly for his benefit (and secondarily for your PILs, to ease their burden) rather than because you are trying to 'absolve' yourself of responsibility?

I do think some (by no means all) people are still slightly of a mindset whereby disabled relatives particularly ones with LDs, have to be kept hidden safely away at home and with their family, not necessarily because of shame or prejudice against people with LDs (although sometimes that plays a part) but because of fear of the outside world and how the person will cope in it. Fear of social services coming and 'taking them away'/'putting them into care' play into this. I'm not saying its all lovely and fluffy out in the world and nothing to worry about, of course there are still huge challenges but things have come on massively in the last 50 years. There are now so many more opportunities for LD people to live independent lives, play an active role in the community, form relationships etc., its wonderful, but usually there needs to be some level of external support for the person to do these things. And therefore unless someone in the family is prepared to dedicate themselves fully to it or there is a lot of money available, that means SS involvement which is a total drag and PITA, but totally worth it in the long run...

And sorry to go on and on, but helping a person with LD fulfil their potential and live a happy life is a skilled job, it requires compassion and a caring attitude of course, but it also requires specialist knowledge, experience and skills. It's not fair to say OP (and why is it falling to her and not her DH) needs to acquire all this herself - research shows that people with LDs tend to do best when supported by a multi disciplinary team; healthcare professionals, social workers, support workers/carers, therapists, and family members all working together around the person's individual needs ideally.

There is a argument to say that going along with the PILs apparent plan that he simply goes to live with his brother at some unspecified point in the future with no further thought or preparation going into it is actually doing the BIL a disservice, I'm sure OP and her DH would house and feed him etc if needed but it's not just about meeting his basic needs. Will he have the same opportunities to go out and about, experience the world, maybe even get a job or a girlfriend as if he had proper professional input and support? I am not saying residential care or supported living is best for everyone, for some living at home is absolutely right but OP is not being nasty and selfish for bringing the question up!

@quarantinevibes I don’t think that’s a fair thing to say. I would not be happy with my parents just expecting me to become my sibling’s carer; I would want to explore all of the options that are available.

I am worried about this, my parents are getting on now but yet despite me and my siblings trying to get them to see sense and sort a plan now they just won’t and I suspect they are expecting me or my sister to take on our youngest brother who has severe disabilities and requires 24/7 care. It sounds awful but I just don’t want to do that, it would require a house remodel, me leaving my job etc. I really resent them putting us in this position me and my siblings have been talking amongst ourselves and attempting to make our own plans which currently look like some kind of assisted living facility with visits to our houses on a rotation but as of yet we’ve no idea how to pay for this. It’s really stressful and causing a lot of resentment.

It's irresponsible of the parents not to have plans for the brother. It's not a siblings job to care for them.

It sounds like your husband is just putting his head in the sand and hoping to move the brother in regardless what you say and then probably foist the responsibility on to you.

Looking after people with additional needs is for professionals not reluctant siblings.

@Chloemol
How it impacts on kids.

My mam was a carer for her mother,father and finally her brother.It impacted my life as we couldnt go anywhere.I was a child.

Its alright trying to guilt trip the op but her loyalties lie with her kids.

This needs sorting out sooner rather than later.Because people become frail and can go down hill pretty quick.

I've no experience in this field but I would have thought sheltered accommodation would be the best option. I think it's possible even if you tried having him live with you your DH could actually realise it's not as easy as he thinks, because whilst he grew up with his brother, it's still not the same, because he had his parents input and the family dynamics will be different. I think because you are getting childcare from the in-laws, it's making you feel somewhat obligated. I can understand the sleepless nights, but in a way you are pre empting (sp?) too much and putting yourself under unecessary pressure, as PP's have said it could be years before he needs your help. Also, whether you are being unreasonable or not, even if he did live with you you need a large enough house or an annexe. Maybe your husband feels obligated too. Either way it shouldn't all fall on your shoulders, but the sleeplessness nights are a result of feeling unsettled. Also, your DH probably hasn't thought about what happens if you want a holiday (in the future!) or just out for the day. I suppose the other alternative is if he stayed with you some of the time or could go to a day care place. Ideally you should all have a proper discussion. Have you yourself actually spoke to his parents about it? It may be if nothing goes wrong for another ten years you might feel differently by then. Do you think the threat of the corona virus possibly affecting your inlaws has brought it home a bit? Made you feel like there's a sense of urgency.

What does your BIL want? Would he like to try living independently? Does he have capacity? Supported housing need is assessed and (partly) funded through social work. He wouldnt need to declare himself homeless. They would first make a referral to social work for a needs assessment and then if he is assessed as suitable for supported living (and there are lots of different options) social work would work with your BIL to find the right place for him.

So many are WFH with DC and haven't moved in with their elderly parents for lockdown...I find it strange that you haven't done what so many others did in this situation.