Is this sexual assault? Rape? Neither? TW

[daretodenim]

I'm wondering what this experience is.

I don't know how to talk about this event because it was so deeply upsetting, but I don't know what to call it. I'd like to

This was years ago.

My mother was visiting and in the next bedroom. Mother is abusive and had spent her holiday flirting with my then boyfriend and telling him how crap a person I was dressed up as jokes that he didn't always catch, but I did.

Boyfriend wanted anal. I'd never done it before. I didn't want to. I told him I didn't want to. I whispered things like not tonight, another time. He kept going on and on and in the end, because I didn't want an argument about anal sex, with my mother in the next room - she'd have probably told me to stop being a bitch to him - so I just let him.

It hurt, I did not like it and I didn't want it. I was aware that she was in the next room. I dissociated.

But on his side he'd have said that I'd agreed - and I didn't disagree in the end.

So what would you call this?

No it doesn't, please please don't give any more details. God knows what sort of person would ask for more details.

Christ the rape apologists out in force I see.

OP - yes, you were coerced into performing a sexual act you didn't want. Coerced consent isn't consent, you were raped.

Please do not feel bad about using counselling facilities available; you have every right to access assistance.

^^difnt post when I thought it did so crossed with subsequent ones!

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I feel really shaky about this. Just the idea that someone wouldn't understand that this really felt awful and I didn't want it is hard to stomach. But I did ask and was ready for people to say it was my own fault for not doing more - or I thought I was. It's really really hard to hear. I know why people think it's my fault for not leaving etc because I have the same questions.

But I also know he couldn't truly believe I wanted it. Nothing other than cave in suggested I was wanting that to happen. We'd never even discussed it.

I'm feeling very sad. But thanks for all your responses.

Not sure if i would class it as rape. But you were definitely coerced into it, which is absolutely wrong.

So what about the OP's experience stops it from being rape then?...

To all the rape apologists and minimisers, learn what the actual definition is before you go causing more harm to victims and survivors of rape.

The amount of people unwilling to use the word is absolutely staggering. No consent = rape.

But I also know he couldn't truly believe I wanted it.

OP, this absolutely is rape and every feeling you have about it is valid. You are NOT taking anything away from other victims by seeking help and using services. Please contact rape support services in your area. You need to put yourself first. You absolutely deserve recovery as much as every other victim.
You've done an extremely hard.part already in making him an ex and removing your toxic mother, you obviously have a lot of strength. Take care

But I did ask and was ready for people to say it was my own fault for not doing more - or I thought I was

Please please don't. I blamed myself for years but the only person responsible for rape is the rapist. It was not your fault. Don't torture yourself with what ifs. Years on, it's easy to kid yourself that you had all these options when in reality, what option did you have? Go and tell your abusive mum what was going on? No.

I really think you should reach out to a rape charity, people who know what they're talking about and walk away from anyone who tells you it was your fault. It was a massive shock when i realised that what my ex did was rape, you need to be very kind to yourself. My experience resurfaced when i was in therapy for something else and it hit me very, very hard, much worse than i would have expected. I wouldn't really recommend opening up to people you know - you will probably find it more helpful to speak to a therapist who won't judge you or tell you it was your fault.

Rape Crisis have a phone service and I think an online chat. Please access support x

This has happened to me. (My mum wasn’t there though.)

I consider it rape.

Coercion is rape, coercion is defined as the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner by use of threats or force. It involves a set of various types of forceful actions that violate the free will of an individual to induce a desired response.
Obviously he used manipulation rather than actual threat but the outcome is that you did something you didn't want to.

Anyone who says it isn't rape wants to consider if they were repeatedly badgered, nagged and manipulated until they felt unable to say no, already in a position where they were alone and felt unable to make a fuss.
He knew you didnt want to make a fuss and seized upon his chance, sorry OP. Rape crisis services are there for you, do use them.

Yes, its rape. He kept pestering you about it. You said you weren't interested. You probably felt manipulated into just getting it over with.
He had zero care towards your feelings. He didn't care if he hurt you.
Glad you're rid of both toxic assholes.

Many young girls first experiences these days are coercion and rape.
Pornsick guys have become violent.
Young girls are expected to give in to anal, being strangled, slapped, pushing head down so hard, the girl vomits.
They believe they have to do these things just to have a boyfriend.

It's very common for victims to freeze/be struck dumb, and doesn't mean they're happy about what's happening. You'd made it clear you didn't want it.

IMO we should start calling coerced sex what it is- rape. The victim doesn't truly consent to it/want it.

@daretodenim So glad you no longer have either of those people in your life. xxxxx

A decent therapist etc will not minimize what you experienced.

He ABSOLUTELY knew you didn't want to do it but he put you in a position where NOT letting him do it would have brought you apparently worse consequences to letting him do it. That is NOT consent and yes it is rape.
I really can't bear the people who call it 'not consensual, but I wouldn't say it was rape' or 'just bad sex'. Shut up.

Apologies if I offended you op. Not my intention at all. I hope you get some support

The one time I was sexually assaulted was in this scenario and I froze, I didn't fight or flee. I was surprised at how immobilised I felt. It was also with someone I had had consensual sex with hundreds of times which I think makes it harder to react.

You did nothing wrong, please do not question how you reacted in a shocking situation. I would urge you to seek help from a sexual abuse charity. It was rape and you didn’t deserve to be exploited by someone who was meant to love you

@daretodenim I work with people who have been raped and sexually assaulted and I can absolutely state that nobody would tell you off for accessing a service like the one I work for. Talking it through with a professional might help you find some clarity about what happened. I'm so sorry that it did happen to you and hope you get some help.

I think one of the things that has been clarified in law over recent decades - for example in cases where someone was convicted of rape for having sex with someone too drunk to consent - is that consent is something active and positive, it's not simply the default state where there is no active nonconsent.

I wouldn't quite go so far as to say "enthusiastic". If you roll your eyes, lie back and say "go on then, but make it quick" then you're consenting. You could question what kind of relationship you have with someon who wants to have sex with you based on such an "invitation", but you are still fundamentally consenting.

Most of the time consent isn't verbal, it's communicated through actions, but it's still an action that needs to take place. It can't just be assumed.

All of which means that if, as you describe, the last thing that you communicated to him was a clear, verbal "no", and you didn't say or do anything to suggest that you'd changed that to a "yes", then you didn't consent. Not only that but you actively refused consent. The fact that you "just let him do it", ie. didn't physically fight him off, is immaterial.

I'm sorry, I really think he raped you.

I work for a sexual assault counselling service - I've worked with many clients with this exact presenting issue.

You would absolutely be using these services appropriately.

Please get support, Op.

People who staff rape helplines know that this was rape.

I'm enraged by all the people here who don't get it. The best I would say is that for a long time a lot of men thought it was ok to persuade a woman to give in, that that was consent. So some men were rapey without fully understanding how obscene their behaviour was. It was still rape. We're in a transition time where some people still haven't recognised that coerced consent IS NOT CONSENT!!

Take a breather Op, look after yourself and your DCs. Then get support through a trained source. You deserve and need it.

I wouldn't quite go so far as to say "enthusiastic". If you roll your eyes, lie back and say "go on then, but make it quick" then you're consenting.

You are taking 'enthusiastic' too literally. It means that consent is given completely willingly. If "oh go on then" is genuinely meant then it sounds a bit grim but not illegal. Other women have given verbal consent but it's to avoid negative consequences (e.g. saying yes because you'll get the silent treatment otherwise). That's not consent, it's another form of coercion.

If you roll your eyes, lie back and say "go on then, but make it quick" then you're consenting.

Frankly, if you're with a man who will stick his dick in you in those circumstances, you're better off alone.

Ibelieveinyesterday -

Are you saying that if you give verbal consent in order to avoid negative consequences such as silent treatment, the sex that follows is then rape?

That sounds like very shaky ground, given that once people are in a relationship and have history together, there can be multiple layers of potential consequences, real or imagined, that one partner might feel coerced into that the other partner doesn't consider coercion at all. You'd have to postulate an ideal sex scenario in which neither partner makes any connection between what is happening and any of the background expectations of the relationship, and call everything else rape. I don't think that can work.

There can of course be a lot of bad, unhealthy sex that we're best of avoiding (as Nighting points out), but that isn't rape. The fact that it isn't rape doesn't make it OK.

Although to get back to the point, what the OP describes is clearly rape.

So sorry that you had to go through this OP and I agree with others that it’s rape and if possible you should try to access help available but I don’t get the “mother connection” -I may just be being dim though but from my reading she didn’t instigate this assault or know about it - she was “merely” a factor in it - the unconscious trigger. Not excusing your previous or ongoing relationship but I’m confused

Are you saying that if you give verbal consent in order to avoid negative consequences such as silent treatment, the sex that follows is then rape?

I know we aren't in Canada but their definition of consent explains it quite well.

consent means… the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in sexual activity" without abuse or exploitation of "trust, power or authority", coercion or threats.

It might seem stark to some but I honestly can't see sex involving emotional abuse or coercion as being consensual. Of course proving that as a rape in a legal sense might be more difficult, I'm definitely no expert. But in a previous relationship I've gone along with sexual things even though I didn't want to, because I was scared of the consequences of saying no.

I agree with a PP, it doesn’t matter what people label it as, it was still a horrible experience for you and upset you greatly (as it would anyone!)
Definitely go no contact with your mother- she sounds a really vile piece of work.
Dump your boyfriend. He shouldn’t treat you like that. He knew you didn’t want to even when you agreed