Flying monkeys

[thegreenlight]

Struggling with my mum still, please feel free to read previous threads. I thought I was in a much stronger place.

So, after a brief ‘woe is me’ set of messages late at night that I responded calmly and kindly but briefly to my mum sent a very long, very hurtful message about how awful and selfish I am. How my brothers resent me (they are my step brothers) I was not to call her with excuses (which, to be fair I totally would have done before sobbing and crying and begging for forgiveness)

I have maintained radio silence. I now have my dad acting as flying monkey demanding that I forget that my mum can be ‘difficult’. I simply say that she said some very unkind things and I need some time as I am hurt (under the guidance of DH - trust me every fibre of my being wanted to apologise and just make the situation go away but my husband reminded me doing what was easiest hasn’t worked for 30 years) he replied that I have blocked him like I’ve blocked my mum and that he hope I sit and think about what I’m doing. Please help, this is so hard and I’m doing so well but I just want the guilt to go away.

There is no sign of an apology or even any acknowledgment that I’ve been hurt. It’s like they pay no attention to anything I say! Am I doing the right thing? I really don’t want to go no contact and hope that me creating boundaries will actually lead to a better relationship in the long run but it goes against everything I’ve ever known!

I ping pong between feeling proud of myself that I’ve stood up to her and told her how I feel and feeling like a 7 year old girl who’s being disobedient.

Oh i recognise some of this . My mum's flying monkeys were my dad and my brothers who rushed in to defend her whike she played victim . My advise get therapy as its hard to make decisions to protect yrself when its your mum . I did that and now feel free. It's worth a try

Thankyou for the reply - I actually had my first therapy session over the phone this afternoon. My husband is very clued up and happy I am finally listening to him after 20 years. He is advising me what to say! It’s so hard though and against every fibre of my being to not just apologise even though I haven’t done anything to warrant this!

You’ve been conditioned to feel guilty by your mum’s behaviour. All you’re trying to do now is establish healthy boundaries. You can’t control how she reacts to that, it’s up to her to choose whether to act like a grown up or a petulant child. It’s not your responsibility. Sounds like your DH is fab though, go team greenlight!

I have said I need more time as I basically want her to admit that she was unkind and unfair or even say sorry for what she called me - I don’t want to just forget it like it didn’t happen (this is what I did the last time she sent me an awful message about how horrible I am but I didn’t apologise for existing and that was progress for me!) I’m in uncharted waters and it’s not pleasant.

Your dad is her enabler and is probably getting it at home.

He wants you to roll over and take it so he is off the hook. It easier for him.

Keep going.

How did you find your first therapy session?. I hope it went well for you.

Your parents installed these buttons in you with the result that you are mired in fear, obligation and guilt as an adult.

Your mother is very much a master of, "come closer so I can hurt you again". This was infact the purpose of sending you such woe is me messages, it was all done by her to draw you in. She in telling you how horrible you are is really describing her own self, narcissists self hatred knows no bounds. Projecting their own self onto their target is also par for the course here. Women like your mother also cannot do relationships so always need a willing enabler to help them; that person here is your dad. Now he's on at you too unsurprisingly because he is indeed copping it from her at home. He wants to revert to his default position of self preservation and want of a quiet life so will readily chuck you under the bus here. He won't protect you here from her and never has either. He is truly a weak bystander of a man.

Your parents, both of them for that matter (your dad being her willing enabler and secondary abuser), will never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. Your role here to them is that of scapegoat for all their inherent ills and that will not change. You need to remove yourself from their lives; they will never accept you trying to assert what are really healthy boundaries here. Narcissists hate boundaries and will actively rail against them. Your conditioning here at their hands is probably at the heart of why you state you do not want to go no contact (you perhaps think that the sky will really fall in if it does). Your H is your ally here; go team Greenlight indeed!.

Thankyou for the replies and support. It was amazing how quickly the tone of the messages changed. As DH pointed out, they went from ‘we love you always’ to ‘sit and think about what you’ve done’ in literally 3 messages! I really don’t think my dad would care if he ever spoke to me again.

I keep playing through in my head all the gifts she has bought me and the places she has taken me but if I’m honest there was always an edge. I was always waiting for her to say something horrible or react in a strange way. Her depression trumps everything, her everything trumps everything and anything I say or feel gets dismissed being ‘Sarah Bernhardt’ And a drama queen which is definitely what I am being called to anyone who will listen at the moment. But the guilt is still there. They have always been generous materially and it is difficult to not feel ungrateful.

Money is a handy tool to control people with.

If anyone's being drama queens here its your parents. Not you. They have merely conditioned you to think you are such when infact it is them. It is really not your fault that they are like this and you did not make them that way.

Money is indeed used by toxic parents to control and otherwise obligated their chosen target with.

Gifts should come with ribbons attached, not strings.

How do they contact you? could you give yourself a break so block them on your phone .... think of it as a bit of breathing space to let things calm down /temporary defence ...

you dont have to think its permanent if that doesnt help just a 'gap'

In mediation/problme solving it is a well known technique to help resolve issue or reframe problems by taking time out to consider ....

keep on with the therapy and if you can find something quiet that works for you mindfulness/prayer/meditation /painting/craft to let your brain have a different focus as this is all so stressful on your system ...
I found a particular mindfulness (mindfulness finding peace in a frantic world -book and CD ) clicked for me ....
and headspace app is free at the moment..
but the main thing is about giving yourself time and mental space
this has been giong on for years ...its not going to resolve quickly....
but you have started

If you feel up to it, you may want to look at the 'Stately home' threads in the relationship section. They are unfortunately many posters on there who have been through similar things as you have, you will get a lot of support from them.

I promise you it will get easier.
The hardest time is when you first stand up to your emotional manipulator.
When your dad starts on you to apologise, just calmly and very firmly explain that you are very hurt by the cruel things she said and you would like her to apologise and make amends before you can move forward. Remind him 'I have feelings too and mine are as valid as hers'. Enablers forget this. It comes as a shock to them as they are so used to the world revolving around only one person's feelings that they forget anyone else (including themsleves) can have feelings that are equally valid.

Have you done some reading and research?
I assume you have?
Amazon - search under 'toxic mother'
Google - FOG - fear obligation guilt

YOU have done nothing wrong and deep down you know this.
You have had decades of placating and people pleasing.
Time now for you.
Your DH sounds clued up. Keep listening to him!!!

Well done OP. Don't waver now, if you're to have a relationship with them then they need to learn that there is a new world order now- and it's one in which you make your own decisions about your time and attention and then you follow through.

If you give in then you are only reinforcing their belief that they are entitled to treat you however they like, and that if they push, bully and blackmail you enough you will relent.

You are entitled to take space- for any reason at all. You don't need to justify it to them.

Your husband sounds like he has the measure of them

I agree with @ellanwood about reminding your Dad that you also have feelings and they are valid.

So often in a dynamic like this, one persons feelings become EVERYTHING to everyone all the time. It can be genuinely shocking to challenge this notion out loud, even though it make absolute sense.

My extremely verbally abusive relative once stood over me, screaming in my face, yelling, wailing, throwing around accusations insults and threats for a whole hour without a break, forbidding me to leave or speak. And then the next time we met as a family he sat at the table and told everyone how 'hurt' he was that I could be so cold while he was expressing his 'raw emotion' to me. I looked him in the eye and said 'I am not interested in your raw emotion' and for the first time he was speechless. He looked like I had jumped up and punched him. The whole family was shocked. It had honestly never occurred to anyone that this was an option. It was like I said the weather no longer applied to me.

I have said I need more time as I basically want her to admit that she was unkind and unfair or even say sorry for what she called me

I know this will be hard, but you need to let that go, it will never happen. They cannot apologise.

If you google the Karpman Drama Triangle, there are 3 positions; victim, persecutor and rescuer. You have been moved to the role of Persecutor, they now see themselves as Victim and Rescuer. They literally cannot apologise to you.

You have to walk away and get on with your life.

I think it's important to remember that you set boundaries - for yourself. Boundaries regarding how you are prepared to be treated.

Setting boundaries for them will not teach them anything. If anything it will just cause them to unravel and rebel hard against the boundaries.

But you have to set them. For you.

Your mum is never going to tell you she is sorry for her behaviour. Because she isn't. And because that would be giving away control. And her kind are not capable of that.

Please, make your own closure. You cannot and will not get it from them.

You are doing the right thing going no contact. Just please dont think of it as a method to 'teach' your mum a lesson. Because it isnt. It is something you are doing to protect yourself. And it should be a perminant decision.

It is a hard lesson to take to accept that there will never, ever, be an apology or acknowledgement of wrong doing / hurt from them.

The only apology / acknowledgement will - as ever - come from YOU to them in your actions after you have held off for a long as you can.

Because this how it has always been. They have never ever apologised or acknowledged anything - and if they did it was fake and transient until they reeled you back in to the next eruption.

They will never change their behaviour. Except to become more entrenched. The more you point out their wrongs the more they will declare they are right.

There is only one way to win this game. New rules. Yours. Drop the rope. Disconnect. Emotionally detach in your head - take yourself out of punching distance by going NC.

This is your boundary - behaviours of kindness and respect is your baseline - they are not capable of that. Don’t fall for the manipulation from your DF or around money.

Your emotional freedom, mental peace and a calm, joyous, hopeful life devoid of drama, histrionics and toxic emotional blackmail is your wealth.

Read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward - you will see every single antic laid out and also how to grow and move on.

Your DH seems to be emotionally literate - keep listening. Keep up with the therapy and immerse yourself in learning all about this.

Then you need to proactively find positive people and activities to nourish you and distract you through this difficult phase when you will need to feel sorrow and grief for the parents you should have had and feel the pain of the little girl emotionally abused. But the other side is magnificent.

I agree with @Gutterton that Toxic Parents is a very good book to read. It feel eerie at first when what feel like very specific, private and personal family dynamics are described in minute detail (the fury if you dare to disagree about anything, the long sulking, the family member intervening between you to encourage you to apologise for not lapping up abusive behaviour), but it's actually comforting in a weird way to realise why things are as they are and to have someone explain what you can and can't ever expect to happen.

ellanwood it puts words and phrases to covert behaviours and dynamics that you are not even sure are really happening before your eyes as the whole denial, delusion, minimising and collusion makes you doubt yourself and believe you are unreasonable or irrational - when there is in fact a well rehearsed pantomime playing out in front of you.

If you can get that this is the hardest time and it actually takes grabbing hold of the hurt and embracing it to change your mindset - you will pull through

You need to maintain NC for now until you accept that they cannot give you what you need and that they will never change.
It took me training to become a social worker before I had the knowledge to unpick my own family's disfunction and set appropriate boundaries in place.
I now have a relationship of sorts with them, I respond rather than react and can see their manipulation a mile off.
Read the articles suggested above as knowledge is power!

If you can’t face NC - then decide on LC and work out what situations would be tolerable to you:
Eg:
Only seeing them by crossing paths on neutral ground at wider family events.
Giving zero info and adopting a detached receptionist style if approached by them.
Always “just on the way” to somewhere or have to head off to the loo if cornered.
Have a stack of responses ready to close down anything:
That’s not how I see it
I am not interested in your opinion
I have nothing to say
I will not discuss that topic
Just stop please
I am leaving now
No I don’t want to do that.
No I am busy

You will soon realise that LC morphs to NC as they will keep pushing boundaries and it is exhausting.

The wisdom and insight shared on here is amazing - I have been reading your responses to my husband and he is in awe of you all! I keep coming on the thread and rereading when I’m feeling weak or lost. I genuinely can’t thank you all enough. I know NC is recommended by all and for good reason but I’m not there yet. I feel stronger and more confident that my boundaries are valid and my feelings are legitimate.