Flying monkeys

[thegreenlight]

Struggling with my mum still, please feel free to read previous threads. I thought I was in a much stronger place.

So, after a brief ‘woe is me’ set of messages late at night that I responded calmly and kindly but briefly to my mum sent a very long, very hurtful message about how awful and selfish I am. How my brothers resent me (they are my step brothers) I was not to call her with excuses (which, to be fair I totally would have done before sobbing and crying and begging for forgiveness)

I have maintained radio silence. I now have my dad acting as flying monkey demanding that I forget that my mum can be ‘difficult’. I simply say that she said some very unkind things and I need some time as I am hurt (under the guidance of DH - trust me every fibre of my being wanted to apologise and just make the situation go away but my husband reminded me doing what was easiest hasn’t worked for 30 years) he replied that I have blocked him like I’ve blocked my mum and that he hope I sit and think about what I’m doing. Please help, this is so hard and I’m doing so well but I just want the guilt to go away.

There is no sign of an apology or even any acknowledgment that I’ve been hurt. It’s like they pay no attention to anything I say! Am I doing the right thing? I really don’t want to go no contact and hope that me creating boundaries will actually lead to a better relationship in the long run but it goes against everything I’ve ever known!

I ping pong between feeling proud of myself that I’ve stood up to her and told her how I feel and feeling like a 7 year old girl who’s being disobedient.

Small steps OP.
Do things when you are ready.
I honestly can't imagine what this is like.
Keep strong. Keep talking this all through with your DH.

@thegreenlight
Well done for staying strong, It can be difficult when it comes to family but unfortunately blood relation doesn't always translate to respect.

Make sure you do not fold on this, even if you speak again you have no reason to apologise!

@thegreenlight, going low contact can be just as empowering as no-contact. It's very empowering because they can't then cast you in the role of flouncing drama queen who won't speak with her family.

If you can adopt a bright, breezy attitude while speaking with them once a month or visiting a couple of times a year (not staying the night - never!) you can maintain healthy boundaries without losing your family, which in itself is a very lonely and traumatic step to take.

But do practise some of the attitudes and stock phrases @Gutterton recommends. Once they are hard-wired, you feel much better protected against any onslaughts of insanity, aggression, hysteria and accusation. These days I literally just calmly leave the room if my father gets nasty. No apology, no explanation where I am going or why I am leaving. I just leave for as long as I want, either going into the garden or out for a walk. If anyone tries to make a drama of it, I'm prepared. I always promise to run a small errand earlier in the day so I can return having done something they would be churlish to criticise 'Oh I just posted that form for you, picked up some bread, went to water the tomatoes etc.' You'll pick up the skills. LC is just as effective as NC. The point is, the power should be in your hands. It's your choice how you handle your narcissistic parent and how you minimise the damage they try to inflict.

There won’t ever be an apology but it sounds like you know that. These messages are weapons that she’s crafted to puncture your resolve. They don’t necessarily contain anything representative of her feelings. That’s how she can switch so quickly from declarations of love to attempts to guilt and chastise you. They’re just tools. When one thing doesn’t work, she’ll pull out another. Same thing with the flying monkeys.

Your dad is used to doing your mum’s dirty work and keeping everyone in line. Enabling her results in a quiet life for him, and possibly deflects her temper away from him.

I agree with other posters that NC isn’t for everyone and LC can be easier to manage emotionally while still creating some much needed distance. But now is not the time to break your NC. All it will do is reinforce that you can be worn down by their poor behaviour, and they’ll be that much quicker to abuse you in the future. Lean on your husband, post on this board, use your counselling sessions, do whatever you need to do to get through this really difficult part. Then you can think about what you want moving forwards.

There will never be an apology, which is hard because you are owed one, and it would help you so much to hear it. But that's not how your parents are made. Their lives and relationship are built on a scaffolding of dysfunction and faulty beliefs, and one of them is that they are 'right' and anyone not dancing to their tune is wrong.

Stay strong OP.

LC is about you and your choices. Not them. It doesn't matter what they do say or want. You don't need their permission to draw a boundary.

That said LC can become NC as the boundaries you draw are like red to a bull. They will act out more and more as they sense a loss of control.

Just stay calm and consistent. If you want some contact and not to cut them off then don't get drawn into discussion or arguments. Just remove yourself from anything you don't feel comfortable with and say you love them both, but you won't be spoken to like that and you look forward to seeing them when they have calmed down.

They may escalate their behaviour leaving you with no choice but NC, or they may be unable to have a relationship that they aren't in control of and find some reason to cut you off. Neither iutcome would be your fault.

I am a different person from the one who posted originally about how I couldn’t cope anymore a couple of weeks ago. The wisdom and advice I have received here has (no exaggeration) changed my life. I really cannot thank you all enough. Without you all I am sure I would have apologised by now to make everything go back to ‘normal’ and the cycle would begin again. As is I feel stronger and more at peace than I ever have before in my life.

I know this is a long and difficult journey and I don’t know what the outcome will be, but if you have given advice on this thread please realise that you have improved my mental state and my self esteem massively. I am continuing to work with my new therapist and I’m so hopeful for the future. Every time I feel weak I reread at this thread and remember I am doing the right thing. You have all done something wonderful. Thankyou x

Good for you OP! It’s hard isn’t it to think that you matter and your views count too? The fear of disobedience dissipates a bit over time. KOKO......

You are making brilliant progress OP! It’s a huge step forward to actually recognise the abuse, and realise that the problem is not you, it’s her.
She has cast you as the scapegoat and “bad daughter” , brainwashing you for your whole life to trap you in guilt, fear and a sense of duty, to make you her emotional punchbag.
I also had a toxic mother, OP. I was 33 and expecting my first child before, with the help of my DH, I managed to go NC and get her out of my life forever. I never regretted it for a moment- the feeling of freedom was an overwhelming relief.
Narcissists are incapable of remorse, they will never apologise, they do not believe they’ve done anything wrong. It’s always someone else’s fault, never theirs.
Your mother will never give you closure - you need to seek that for yourself, through therapy, to reach the point where you are strong enough to go NC with her and her entire circus of flying monkeys.
Sending you strength, OP. My prayers that you break free soon, and enjoy a happy future with your DH and create your own happy little family, to break the cycle of dysfunction. God bless.

What a fantastic update OP.
You are doing brilliantly well.
Keep going and just take it a day at a time.

Really delighted to hear your update. Remember you are doing this with your own inner strength and you know your value, self worth and boundaries. Be proud of yourself.

You may have moments of sadness and confusion - because they planted that seed of crippling doubt in us - but if we stop
them feeding and watering it by emotionally protective LC, grey rock, conversation close down techniques and strategies to calmly walk away - then we won’t slip back.

It’s a v tough transition period - takes at least a year, lots of milestones (birthdays, Xmas etc) have to be re thought and got through, they often up the anti when they sense loosing control (faked illness, invented crisis, smear campaigns) - so you need to be ready not to fall into those traps. You will may also have times of sadness, yearning, longing - when you hope they will change. Process that sadness, feel it deeply - but don’t take any action. When they play up and make some contact - take some time to decide which unemotional generic response you will use from your rule book/phrase book.

Oh sorry to hear that.
No can’t do that - I’m busy.
No that doesn’t work for me.

Anything that doesn’t ask a specific direct Q doesn’t even require an acknowledgement in my LC rule book. Other things just need batting away.

It’s quite exhausting emotionally and a bit like snakes and ladders - but keep vigilant and calm - and proactively fill your life with positive people and projects to nourish and fuel you through tricky times and fill the void left by your parents.

Not feeling so strong today . Now we have passive aggressive Facebook posts saying if they care, they will call etc. Any message I have received that is pleasant I have responded to pleasantly and straight away. I just refuse to answer messages where she or my dad are unkind. She genuinely thinks I caused this and am continuing it! I feel like sending her the messages she sent me that I’ve had no apology for, just an instruction from my dad to ‘forget it and move on’ to remind her that it’s her that has done this not me. I have to have some standards in the way I allow people to speak to me! I never have before so she is confused and feels like the victim. I’m hating this. I really am. But she hasn’t called or text me since she was vile to me and told me not to call her with excuses. I need some support and you have all been so amazing.

@thegreenlight it's so hard isn't it? This is the toughest part.

The thing is, you're never going to convince them. They won't 'get it'. They won't understand. They have no reason to- in their warped view of the world they are perfect victims. Why would they engage with reality?

The only person whose view matters is yours. You need to be sure that you deserve better. You need to be sure that they won't be allowed to talk to you like that. You need to know that you don't owe a response to an unkind message.

Because that is the truth. You deserve better. Everyone does. You are not their punching bag. You're doing the right thing.

Sit with this discomfort. Observe it. Ride it out. You're strong, you've got this.

Have you read toxic parents by Susan forward? Or emotional blackmail?

I know you really REALLY want her to accept that she was wrong and apologise. But she never will and you are torturing yourself trying to think of ways to get her to do what you want.

You need to accept that’s how she is and she won’t change and become the mother you deserve. Your only two options are

1. LC in which you deal with her in a controlled and detached way , keep her at arms length and don’t get involved in her dramas

1. NC

There isn’t a third option where you get to explain things from your point of view and they accept your reasonable boundaries and change their behaviour.

The hardest thing of all is letting go of the hope that they will change.

I wouldn’t say I really want an apology - I know them too well to expect it. Just a kind message saying she is missing me and the boys or a kind word about me to negate what she has said and to open channels of communication in a more positive way. But I’ve had nothing, and she’s the one who is the victim! In her last message she said I ‘had made it clear I was not a very good mother to you’ I NEVER said that. I would never say that! Nothing in my messages even indicates that. But that is her being framed as the victim - she twisted my attempts at standing up for myself into this.

She may NEVER admit it. My mum hasn't spoken to me now for three weeks because (when some proof came to light) I asked her to acknowledge (not apologise) that I had not been paranoid/sensitive/dramatic 30 years ago.

She simply would not could not will not do that and now she is not speaking to me.

We have been here before. There is never an apology, but it does get easier

That excruciatingly uncomfortable feeling I used to get when I first changed my ways and didn't used to race back to her to apologise for daring to have my own reality it lessens.

I'm three weeks in to my Mum not speaking to me right now and I do wonder how it will end but I do not have that sickening feeling I had 3 years ago when I first really, really stood up to her. I've always stood up to her and we always had a fight and I always resolved it by going back to her and apologising! I've stopped doing that now. It hasn't magically changed her but I do feel like I'm honouring my reality. Which helps me. I'm not sublimating my truth for hers. It makes me feel better overall with just a pocket of anxiety about her up on the cross like the world's most wronged martyr.

stay strong

Yep. And they will be a point where you click that it will never change and you will be at peace with that.

Mine was when my mum blamed my long dead father for our troubles.

That was it for me. Knew it would never changed and not looked back.

I understand SO well. It's not even about an apology is it!

It's more like two realities and theirs always pushes yours underground.

At some point my Dad will get in touch with me to tell me how hurtful I'm being to my mother! My mother is the ONLY person in our family who can get hurt! Even though they refused to believe me when a family member was singling me out for abusive behavior (not sexual abuse thankfully).

Years and years and years and years later, my brother actually acknowledged that I was right (I always knew I was right) and that prompted me to try and MAKE my mum admit that I had not been dramatic and sensitive and paranoid. She has thrown herself up on the cross and she is so hurt now.

Something you said struck a chord, another parallel with my own experience. My parents have been generous to me and I am so grateful and I have told them how grateful I am repeatedly. When I left my x they helped me buy a house. So the DC and I have security. I am so grateful for that.

But what I've managed to disentangle out from their expectations of me is that gratitude must be expressed not through gratitude but through obedience.

The last time my mum wasn't speaking to me and my dad turned up on the front door to tell me off for being hurtful and ungrateful etc, I screamed at him that he was the one confusing obedience and gratitude.

It didn't resolve matters, it just slips back in to fake nice again after a while.

You're lucky you have a husband WHO GETS IT in your corner.

That's what my inner child needs right now. Don't laugh. My inner child needs somebody who says I believe you, I hear you, I see you. Your reality is the one I accept.

I never had that and for decades I"ve had my parents telling me I'm ungrateful.

When your husband tells you he believes you, close your eyes and picture yourself as a child in their house, small, silent, and let your inner child hear his words, xx

Ok So you don’t expect an apology . But you do want her to make some small gesture of reconciliation, some veiled apology.

And you are outraged that she’s not doing what you want. Even though she’s never done it before. Ever. In her entire life. And she’s , what , 60 or 70?

And you are also surprised that she’s playing the victim and trying to shame you with her FB Posts. Next you will be upset to hear that she’s bad mouthing you to other friends and family .

This is a battle for control. She is trying to get you to back down and apologise as you normally do.

You are trying to get her to make some small gesture that’s like an Apology but not actually one.

Both of you seem incredulous that the other won’t do what you want.

How do you think this is going to end OP?

I am nc with my dm. She once wrote me a woe is me letter declaring she knew she was a rubbish dm etc. I didn't reply.
Haven't seen her for 8 years. Not any contact either way.. My dc aren't missing out.
She guilted them into allowing her to use different first names for them as she didn't like my choices..
Protect your dc and keep here away op.

You make it sound very simple there Odette
It's not about control I don't think.

It's about recognising that you have your own truth and fightning not to let somebody else's more STRIDENT( but no more true) TRUTH come over you in a TANK, eroding you. JMO

Block them on FB so you can't see the posts.

You are already lowering yourself to not be worthy of an apology... all she has to do is say she misses you! If your Mum is a narcissist the best thing for your DC is to keep them away from her.

OP, stay strong. Standing up to this behaviour for the first time is the turning point. This will out me but only to my sister if she's reading. My dad always picks a huge row on Mothers' Day. Always has. He hates a day that isn't all about him. Six years ago on Mother's Day he picked a row with me about the colour of someone's eyes. I happened to be right and showed him, not realising that what I thought was a bit of banter about something entirely unimportant would escalate. He then caused a huge row and sulked for months. Three months later it was a milestone birthday for me but I still hadn't apologised for disagreeing with him, and all the flying monkeys were hissing at me so I scaled back my birthday party (which they all took to me being precious but actually it was because I couldn't face a huge scene from him and loads of his generation relatives being icily polite to me when I just wanted to relax and enjoy the day so I just invited very close family including him, as I could manage him without a huge party to organise. He staged a one-day illness and didn't turn up or speak to me. Next day he was out partying with his mates. For me, that was the turning point. Because I wouldn't say brown eyes were blue he sulked for three months and blanked a major birthday (even though I had hosted his and mums for years). From then on I have treated him as though I am a customer services manager - polite and breezy and businesslike. He hates it but he can't fault it. And I feel a lot better.

Sorry - being emotional recalling that made me forget to paragraph. What a rant!