Wider Family Fallout from Affair

[Nattyjackie]

My brother had an affair with OW for over a year. Has now left SIL and kids and has moved in with OW. I feel he had treated SIL appalingly.

I believe he has behaved really badly and told him so. I've also told him I will never have anything to do with OW as she was very much culpable in enabling his behaviour.

Our relationship is hanging by a thread tbh and I've made it clear she is not welcome at our house. Ever.

He is starting to ignore my boundaries and is trying to insert her into our lives, he has tried to bring her over to 'pop round'. I've put a stop to it as we are on lockdown for one (I've got kids)! I think they are being really selfish right now travelling round as they please. But also because she is simply not welcome.

I am so angry right now and need to vent.

YOU are being manipulated and used here.

He needs your validation for this shocking life choice.

He is exactly trying to push boundaries - they come as a unit now because he has decimated everything else in his life.

Her being in your presence validates it.

He would probably use that info on SM or with family and friends to get them to accept this to “DS invited us round for tea etc - had a great time”

Funny, normally on affair threads people castigate the OW for hurting another woman, even though she’s generally a complete stranger to her.

Yet here we have from the OP:
“I have no relationship with her. I have no obligation to treat her fairly, not judge her or to start any relationship with her.” and from a PP:
“This OW is a complete stranger to you and you owe her nothing”.

By that logic, the OW owed your SIL nothing either. Your brother in the other hand, owed her a hell of a lot, yet he’s the one you’re talking to.

*before anyone jumps down my throat and accuses me of being an OW or an apologist etc, I have no skin in this game and am really just putting forward some food for thought. I find it fascinating how much vitriol is directed at the OW and not at the brother, because he’s family. The moral argument is the same, he has wronged your SIL more than the OW has, and the OW owed her nothing anyway, yet she’s the focus of your anger.

sammylady37 and equally I owe nothing to the OW so there it is.

Right now I'd happily go NC with my brother but it would cause pain to my parents who I do care about, so it's not so black and white as you seem to want to paint.

You’re brilliant OP. Good for you. What’s so special about your brother that she felt the need to chase him so hard? She’s really won herself a prize eh? Your poor SIL. It’s all about attention seeking. She’s fought for him and won him and now he wants to show off and gloat. Wanker.

Oh and for what it’s worth I’d never welcome a woman like her into my home. She obviously gets off on bagging other women’s men and has zero morals or boundaries. Vile creature. Don’t even let her near your husband. Sorry but who’s to say she doesn’t get bored of the one she’s now got and decides she wants another steamy affair. Women like her get off on it. They can’t come unless it’s illicit. Screw that. Don’t give somebody like her an inch. She’s poison. Treat her accordingly.

And another judgemental thread...
The evil OW lured your brother away and broke up his marriage, he had no choice
OP, you have no idea what went on in your brother’s marriage. I’m assuming that you would rather he stayed in a miserable marriage and that his happiness is unimportant? Divorce is difficult and it’s not going to be a decision he’s taken lightly. He needs your support, not judgement.

I suppose the thing about the OW is she is a stranger who Is willing to participate in someone’s betrayal and humiliation. I would never have an affair with a married man, and to be honest I do judge women and men who would have affairs.

If someone I loved did this I would try to work through it, find a way to get passed it. But a stranger, nope. Why bother.

I love you @Nattyjackie

I am totally in support of you on this. He is a terrible person for what he did and if I had a family member that did this, I'd have yelled at them for their behaviour too. If they dared bring round the person they cheated with, they would both be thrown out. How can someone be so full of themselves to think they can just swam round to someone's house after they helped split up a family? If I did something like that, I would be too ashamed to show my face there. Although I wouldn't, I know what loyalty and decency are. He could have split up with his wife first, she could have split up with her husband first. That would have made it better. They didn't, they cheated.

McTits

Firstly you don't know the details of how she has behaved, I haven't even scratched the surface here and yes I've seen it first hand so you are not in a position to make that call if I have unfairly judged her or not.

Secondly, his kids actually need his support right now more than the OW and yes they are more important as they are confused, upset and isolated because of what he has done.

Thirdly, they are equally responsible for this situation. I know that being accountable for your actions isn't fashionable now because nothing is anybody's fault these days, but hey when someone tries to barge into my little family by coming to my home I actually do get to judge whether I want them there. If that offends anyone then tough. Don't expect me to condone deceit that has deliberately caused pain to others.

I wonder did your brother tell her you didn’t want a relationship when she arrived at your house.

It’s a ballsy move, and if she knew how you felt it does day a lot about her character.

She knows how I feel. They didn't come as I put a stop to it when i realised what he was doing.

I wouldn't speak to either of them. Your parents can make their own decisions but you shouldn't have to speak to your brother because they won't like it otherwise. I'm guessing they have had OW around as they won't want to say no?

Every time he contacts you or says 'I'll pop round' I would reply telling him that SIL is there at the moment.

I get where you are coming from. A friend was in this position and years on she has no contact with her brother or her parents. Once they were married and had children her parents wanted her to put it behind them. When she wouldn't, they phased her out. SIL remarried and doesn't contact her either. It is all very sad. These things do have such wider repercussions.

They have said that they don't want her at their house either as their relationship with SIL and kids is more important but they are worried about the whole situation. I suspect they will cave to keep the peace. I've said they must make their own decisions as I have made mine. I won't put them in a tricky situation, I'll just avoid any social gatherings they might be at and have a seperate relationship with them.

Well done op.

Been in similar situation and refused to acknowledge the ow or sibling for a while due to the heartache and distress his dc and wife were going through.

Just because that person is related to you biologically doesn't mean you have to agree with their actions

As grown adults they make their choices and decisions and equally as an adult so do the other party.
I chose to support the innocent affected people in my life that I cherish.

Years later I do have a low contact with my sibling and no they aren't still with the other person.

Their actions damaged not just them but the wider family which I will never forget.
That's just the way it is.

I also agree wholeheartedly with you op about people not wanting to be accountable anymore for their own choices and decisions. It's a big big bear to me anyway in general and I have never had an issue calling people out on it so why would I not do that to a sibling that's damaged a family.

“ Don't expect me to condone deceit that has deliberately caused pain to others”

But you ARE condoning it by continuing to have a relationship with your brother. You also seem to overlook that he played the OM role in the OWs marriage, so he’s no innocent man that was tempted by a harlot. Given the strength of your feelings on the matter, I think it would show some integrity if you applied the same attitude and approach to him as you are doing to the OW. you’re hiding behind not wanting to hurt your parents, but they will also have their opinions on the matter and if you articulate yourself clearly surely they would understand your point of view.

I am NC with a sister of mine, for many reasons. She is not and never will be welcome in my home. My mother knows my reasons and while she would prefer me to sweep them under the carpet she accepts that I’ve made my decision. She is not forced to choose between us, we both still attend all family functions, but at them our interaction is extremely limited. It works, my life is immeasurably better without my sister in it and on the occasion I do have to interact I keep it brief and civil.

BarbedBloom that is sad

I don't think that will happen here as I'm really close with them and they adore my kids so won't want that to happen. They are missing them like crazy at the moment!

This is the OP's brother. No one would accept an OW so quickly, granted, but you need to decide who long term your loyalties lie with. If you love your brother and wan to maintain a relationship with him, you need to understand he may need some support too. That may sound pathetic at the moment to you but blood is thicker than water I'm afraid. The more you support SIL now, the more she will expect it forever and it will hurt more when (if) OW is accepted into the family and it's suddenly too awkward to see her anymore. I speak from big experience.

@sammylady37
I don't think op has condoned any actions here
She has made it very clear they are not welcome and that she doesn't agree nor condone the situation.

Well done for you if you chose to go no contact but not everyone can do that.

If you were to cut everyone out of your life that did things you didn't agree with you'd be fairly lonely

You are right to focus on your nephew and nieces.
When my grandad (sounds a similar set of circumstances) behaved appallingly and demanded access to his grand and great-grand children he was told he was a poor role model and only welcome in a 'ceremonial' way - ie he could come to a family event alone - as he is the grandparent but basically everything else - his partner, his opinions, his advice etc was totally unwelcome and not tolerated.
A few people were in charge of policing him at the first few events and he was escorted out of a funeral on one occasion but he caught on and knows his place now. Gma is treated like a queen and he has more respect for her now and asks her permission to do things like attend a family wedding. She loves graciously allowing him to because she knows he is a pathetic old man who's made a very lonely bed to lie in.
Everyone saying it's not ow fault etc is being disingenuous - that's not how human loyalties and emotions work.

Don’t ignore, compromise, minimise or repress YOUR values and feelings. They are important. You have a sound moral compass and the anger and conflict you are feeling is because he is trying to make your accept and condone something that viscerally at your core you know is toxic.

And it is. Stick with your feelings and values - they are real and deep. Your values will shine a light on his shocking behaviour and allow you to support your SIL and N&N authentically.

So listen to your feelings of him pushing your boundaries. Maybe you just need to tell him that you need time and space for the foreseeable - and suggest you catch up again in the autumn.

Also think hard about your FOG (fear obligation guilt) around your DPs and why you feel a need to tolerate all of your DBs entitled, arrogant and deluded behaviour at all costs. You don’t.

Your DPs should respect your high morals as much as they tolerate his low morals.

How do you think they are taking it - does he need you onside to prove to your DPs it’s all OK?

Behaviour such as his has consequences - he is now learning that.

Withdraw from the drama and conflict he has created.

@marblesgoing “ I don't think op has condoned any actions here hmm
She has made it very clear they are not welcome”

No, she has made it very clear the OW is not welcome. Her DB is welcome, she’s still in touch with him. Therefore she’s condoning it. But she’s saying it’s for her parents sakes that she’s doing so. But if her morals and beliefs are that strong, I don’t think she should compromise them as she will end up resentful and bitter.

My 2cents. As I said, I’ve no skin in this game, but I come from a position where I went NC with a sibling as I simply could not condone their behaviour for anyone’s sake. It is possible to do that. It’s not necessarily easy, but if you feel as strongly as the op seems to do, it is certainly possible.

@Getlostu
Sorry but who’s to say she doesn’t get bored of the one she’s now got and decides she wants another steamy affair. Women like her get off on it. They can’t come unless it’s illicit.

Holy shit, that last sentence is so toxic. Wow.

This is a problem in several parts really. Marriage break-up under any circumstances would be a test of wider family relationships but these circumstances make it even tougher still.

I would imagine OP you might feel differently about this if your brother had come clean, told everyone he was in a new relationship but was keeping things low-key and focussing on minimising any further hurt and easing children through this transition? Not trying to foist a new relationship onto everyone in a bid for validation/avoidance of consequences?

Your brother seems to be acting in a way that says his feelings, his wishes, his priorities come first and everyone else has to fall in. He seems to be expecting this to happen quite naturally. Does your family have a background of holding the two of you to different standards? Is that winding you up too?

In the end 'it is my sad duty to inform you you're being a bell-end' is an important part of being a sibling. One that my brother and I have taken turns in over the years. You're simultaneously close enough to make a direct observation and not intimately involved in a relationship with them.

wasnot that's some really interesting food for thought. If you asked my brother he might say I'm the golden child, I'm certainly closer to my parents. But he has always treated people like they are there for his convenience and actually has made people feel like shit over the years. He's always been selfish, I just never realised how selfish. There has over the years never been an instance where he has been called out on the way he treats people, they just roll their eyes and moan to me about it. Perhaps this is the straw that broke th3 camels back.