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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Over friendly? Or something more?

64 replies

DBML · 25/04/2020 19:16

My friend doesn’t have Mumsnet and isn’t usually interested in forms of social media anyway, but has asked me to post for her to see if there is anything she can do.

She’s been with her husband for around 10 years. They are very close, the type of couple who have their phones connected so messages come through to both devices and the share a Facebook account and rarely use it...that sort of thing. Lets call my friend Jo and her husband Bill.

Jo’s husband is a lovely man. Really kind, though not particularly gorgeous or anything. He doesn’t go to the pub, he’s very similar to my own husband in the sense they are home bodies.

He actually works with my husband and in their department there are also 2 women and 4 other men.

Sometimes we all go out for coffee together. Partners are always invited. Bill is always very lovey dovy with Jo. Lots of public affection.

During these times something a bit strange has been happening.

The last 3 or 4 times we’ve all been out to Costa together, one woman (unmarried and about 15 years older than us, perhaps mid 50’s), has been really quite rude to Jo. She doesn’t speak to her. She greets me and everyone else with a kiss, but not Jo.

This is an example of the type of thing that happens...
Jo was sat next to Bill about 6/7 weeks ago and she got up to go and buy them another drink. This woman from work went and sat in her seat next to Bill and was chatting away. When Jo came back, the woman didn’t move or say anything and stayed in Jo’s seat for the rest of the hour we were there, leaving Jo to sit about 6 seats down. The woman also insisted on buying Bill a toasted sandwich saying he ‘looked like he needed feeding’.

Earlier this week my DH said that Bill brought Jo to work with him to help out (because of this crisis they needed a hand) and Jo was bending over putting some books away. Bill walked over and patted her on the bum in a joking way and Jo got up laughing and gave him a kiss. This spurred the woman who works with them to storm out of the room.
The other lady (very nice) who works with them had to chase her to see what was wrong and came back saying that she was dealing with some stuff at the moment with all of the lockdown.

Bill thinks nothing of all this and seems oblivious, but Jo is getting pissed off and senses somethings off, well we all do (me and my husband as well), but I don’t know what to advise her other than ‘ignore it. You’ve got nothing to worry about and you can’t control what others do’...but she said it’s making her feel awkward, an imposition and unhappy. Jo wants to confront this woman, but I think it’s a bad idea.

My DH says this woman is always making Bill drinks in work and bringing him treats from home e.g baked goods. She picks hairs off his jumper and has offered to iron his shirt when it was a bit crumpled at the back. She asks for lifts home a lot (I asked my friend about this and she says that Bill will give the woman a lift home sometimes as much as twice a week, but he texts Jo to let her know and he’s about 10 minutes late when this happens).

Has anything been through this? Is there anything she can do? It’s just a little awkward but I don’t think it’s problem of the century ( then again it’s not me who has to put up with it). Sorry for the long thread.

OP posts:
category12 · 25/04/2020 19:23

Bill needs to put some boundaries in - he needs to stop letting the woman touch him, he needs to share any baked goods around the office with an "oh [strange woman} has brought in x for us all!" or he needs to say no to them, he needs to stop giving lifts and make his own drinks.

Jo shouldn't confront the woman. Bill is her issue.

Artandlove · 25/04/2020 19:24

Jo shouldn’t speak to the other woman about it and Bill needs to stop being so friendly to the other woman. Bill needs to show this other woman he isn’t interested and loves Jo.

BumbleBeee69 · 25/04/2020 19:33

Bill needs to man up or fess up...

Thingsdogetbetter · 25/04/2020 19:42

Woman is obsessed with Bill and has built his friendly work persona into an indication of something it's not. He needs to be very careful and set boundaries - ie never be alone with her etc - so she has nothing to use against him when she realises 'the relationship' she has created in her mind is not want she was imagining.

There is nothing in his behaviour that indicates it is other than a work relationship. But quite a lot in hers that suggests she sees it as something different. She is far too over the top in front of everyone to make me suspect an affair. And he seems oblivious which also seems to negates affair.

He needs to stop being naive and realise that he is inadvertently feeding her delusions. One of my best friends had this issue with a guy at work. She was friendly as she was with everyone else at work, but he build every little gesture into a sign of their 'love'. Then got very anger when his fantasy didn't transfer to reality. He really tried to fuck her over. He was convinced they were together and had plans to run away together. Scary shit!

A chat with HR seems a good protective measure. A deluded woman (or man) scorned is a dangerous thing.

DBML · 25/04/2020 21:51

I’ve screen shot and sent ‘Jo’ your responses. She is very grateful!

She said she asked Bill about 6 months ago if something was going on at work with this woman and his response was “don’t be so bloody stupid” and he made reference to his looks saying “no one is going to fancy me are they”. He finds that idea hilarious apparently.

My DH thinks that Bill sees the lady at work as a ‘second mother’ type of figure and enjoys the ‘mumsy-ing’. He was always a bit of a mummy’s boy before she passed.

We think the women is interpreting it very differently. When I said this to DH he pulled a grimace ‘shits going to hit the fan’ type face.

Jo is going to speak to Bill again and mention HR (and getting some balls), but she thinks he’s going to be resistant to that idea because he doesn’t think The woman is doing anything wrong.

I said to her that at least it’s a small problem in the grand scheme of things. Especially when you read some of the other threads.

OP posts:
BumbleBeee69 · 25/04/2020 21:59

he made reference to his looks saying “no one is going to fancy me are they”. He finds that idea hilarious apparently.

This is text book deflection... he did not answer the question.. he turned it into another question.... he enjoys her attentions... Red Flag for me... sorry Flowers

DBML · 25/04/2020 22:09

@Bumblebeee69

I do agree I think.

OP posts:
saffy1234 · 25/04/2020 22:25

Yeah I agree with @BumbleBeee69
If Bill were to be in his wife's position would he like it?Probably not.The storming out of the room did it for me,and also her ignoring his wife and not letting her have her chair back.
Bill needs to make some boundaries clear to this woman,out of respect for his wife.

DBML · 25/04/2020 22:31

@saffy1234

My fiend says that yes, that’s exactly what hurts her. It’s not so much the actions of the women (though she’s irritated by those certainly)...it’s that Bill allows it to happen. I think you’ve helped her put her finger on the exact cause of what’s bothering her and I think once Bill gets the blame as opposed to this lady, he might well have to sort it out!

OP posts:
Krazynights34 · 25/04/2020 22:38

Ok so you are Jo..
Your husband is allowing this because he likes it. No other reason.
I’d only slap someone on the bum if there was no possibility of there being an interest or misconception and it wasn’t work... or...it’s my husband and we are joking and NO-ONE else... to you see?

DBML · 25/04/2020 22:39

Hi Jo said she’s off to bed. Bill already went up an hour ago, but tomorrow she will tell him that either he ensures the lady is gently set straight, or she can have him and cook all his meals.

What do you think of this suggestion for what to say next time this woman is being a bit too friendly?

“Thank you so much for all of the nice things you’ve done for me ‘Karen’ you’re like a second mum to me, and both Jo and I are very grateful. But we feel as though we are taking advantage of your good nature and don’t want you to put yourself out any more”.

Too staged? Too practised? Ok?
Many thanks

OP posts:
DBML · 25/04/2020 22:45

Hi @Krazynights34

Jo went into work with Bill on Monday to help sort out the office and tidy up in preparation for reopening (a school).

My husband said that Jo was bending over and Bill smacked her bum in a sort of playful way.
They all laughed except the woman who stormed out and then everyone looked at each other like ‘what happened there’. It was later apparently blamed on lockdown stresses, which perhaps it was, but my husband said the timing was a bit ‘raise one eyebrow’.

OP posts:
BumbleBeee69 · 25/04/2020 22:55

Bill's loving this... and likely encourages the behaviour when at work.. so the problem is Bill.. nobody else.. Flowers

Aly92 · 25/04/2020 23:12

The husband is totally to blame but this woman had the audacity to sit in his partners seat and she just ... allowed it. She needs to set this woman straight too. No matter who it was I’d be asking for me seat and then demanding it. The extent to which she is acting out you’d think that there’s more to this. Not just a simple crush

DBML · 26/04/2020 01:59

@Aly92

Yes, initially I wondered that too going back. But DH is insistent that in work it’s not ‘flirtatious’ but it is very friendly. For instance my DH said that Bill says things like...

“No one makes a cooked dinner like you Linda!” (She’s brings him a dinner in on Monday mid)

“Linda, you’re too good to me”.

“Linda, I can’t believe someone hasn’t snatched you up, this cake is amazing”

“Linda, you ought to send my Jo the recipe for this, her cakes are like concrete slabs hahaha”

It’s that sort of thing apparently according to DH.

The jo says he’s never late and tells her when he drops her home. So I don’t see an affair as such,

Now I’m reading this back, I see a man taking advantage of a person who might have feelings, to boost his ego.

OP posts:
Yallreadyforthis · 26/04/2020 02:12

“no one is going to fancy me are they”
Agree. Deflection, or the words of a man who has low self esteem, and lived the attention.
THAT would worry me

ReturnofSaturn · 26/04/2020 03:09

This is so strange. Why not just say that you are Jo ? Confused

DBML · 26/04/2020 04:58

@ReturnofSaturn

Lol, because I’m genuinely not Jo. And I don’t want to keep saying my friend, her husband, my husband and the lady at work, so I gave them names (to stop it confusing me).

My experience with men is very limited. I’ve been with my husband since we were 14/15 and have never been with anyone else. He was my first and last boyfriend. So I simply didn’t know what to tell my friend in terms of advice, as on the one hand it doesn’t seem too bad...but on the other hand it’s making her feel upset. 🤷‍♀️

If you’d prefer to think I’m Jo, then that’s no problem. We’ll take whatever advice you give, whichever way it comes.

OP posts:
Sushiroller · 26/04/2020 06:09

“No one makes a cooked dinner like you Linda!”

Get away!!!!! I couldn't believe
A. This happens and She brings him dinner EVERY week
B. He tells her indirectly it's better than his partner's cooking.

Their relationship is NOT NORMAL.

Jo has the right idea with nicely bur firmly discussing with jo because Linda isn't completely deluded. He is 100% encouraging her...
He can play the naive to a certain point but honestly my eyes were rolling so far back when I read your last update.
He is taking the piss and if jo did this I guaranteehe wouldn't be happy and there'd be a few words.

Sushiroller · 26/04/2020 06:10

With him* not herself

Marnie76 · 26/04/2020 06:24

So he’s belittling his wife to this woman who is then interpreting it that his marriage and wife is not much good. He needs to start singing his wife’s praises to let this woman know he is happily married (if he wants any hope of continuing as so).

MsDogLady · 26/04/2020 07:25

Linda’s jealousy of Jo speaks volumes. Bill has set up a triangle and he needs to take responsibility for and remedy this inappropriate situation.

Linda fancies Bill and he knows it. She is doing the Pick Me Dance and he is enjoying the ego massage. His attention and complements to Linda are undermining his wife and encouraging Linda to compete with Jo, fawn over him, and be too familiar with him (touching, etc.) He has allowed Linda to blank and be rude to Jo, and their marginalizing her at Costa was inexcusable.

Jo’s feelings are valid and understandable. She is being disrespected by her husband. Bill needs to shut down this mutual ego-boosting he is carrying on with Linda. He needs to establish appropriate boundaries with her. If he refuses, that will tell Jo where his priorities lie and she can act accordingly.

category12 · 26/04/2020 07:37

It's not mumsy. It's more "work wife" and he's loving it.

What the fuck is he doing accepting meals etc off her? He needs to be told his behaviour is unacceptable - he's taking advantage, this is costing her money and effort. It's not on.

Your dh has an opportunity to say something to him as well, (should he be willing). Like "oh mate, do you think you should be leading her on like this? It's embarrassing and unprofessional."

Sodamncaughtinthemiddle · 26/04/2020 08:36

I dont blame Linda
I blame Bill who is flirting and leading her on
He needs to sort his shit out

Stelmariah · 26/04/2020 08:53

Yes, the problem is Bill who is loving the attention from the office lady.