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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can a narcissistic man ever love love their children!

56 replies

Fightingback16 · 22/04/2020 14:15

I guess I probably know the answer to this question but in my recovery form my abuse I kind of need validation of my actions. My husband was badly emotionally abusive and used my daughter who is almost 4 against me to evoke my emotions. I’ve gone no contact since December and he made a massive fuss, threatened me, retaliated angry and then upset etc etc but he still hasn’t applied for a contact order.

Do I need to accept that he never had and never will have any capability to love our little girl. She was just a pawn to get to me? It’s hard to accept these ideas, they are totally against human nature. I will do whatever I can do to keep her safe.

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Summersunandoranges · 22/04/2020 14:23

Yes as in they love their possessions. When the child grows up and pisses them off they will either cut them off dead or try and billy them in to submission with emotional blackmail ect..

I have a women in my family who is like this

Fightingback16 · 22/04/2020 14:52

Unsupervised access with a narcissist is bad then as they can’t love them enough to keep them safe? Objects are replaceable!

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yomellamoHelly · 22/04/2020 15:00

My father is one. So I would say not. Wasted my 20s going to what felt like great lengths trying to be "seen". No contact now.

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/04/2020 15:03

I wouldn't worry about physical safety. Emotional safety is another thing.

WH1SKERS · 22/04/2020 15:06

No. They only have two emotions - happy when the person is doing as they are told/ what they want then to do and angry and vengeful when they are not.

So yes he can he happy to be with his DD, as long as she is doing what he likes and always centring him and his needs in everything.

But that’s not love and it’s not a good parent.

LightenUpSummer · 22/04/2020 15:06

I would err on the side of caution re unsupervised contact.

My answer to the question is, they may feel some version of 'love' but it won't feel loving to the child. In fact it could teach them very messed up ides about what love is which could cause major problems for them further down the line.

Speaking from experience Sad

She's lucky to have a mum who cares enough to think about this.

Itoldyouiwasill · 22/04/2020 15:07

I think the father of my children, my exh had NPD ( his mother was diagnosed)
He was actually a loving and wonderful father while they were small and needy and while they worshiped the ground he walked on.
However once they became more the personalities they were always going to become and started having their own views and opinions, he lost all interest. We separated when they were 6 and 10, the contact was good but gradually he just couldn't cope with real live people rather than little needs children. By the time the youngest was 16 and the eldest was 21 there was practically no contact and he has really shown his true colours

yerawizadari · 22/04/2020 15:07

I wouldn't trust a narcissist to put the everyday wants and needs of a child before their own selfishness.

Windyatthebeach · 22/04/2020 15:07

My exh played The Perfect Parent in court. Bad mouthed me incredibly.
Case ended and the neglect started..
Ss rejected my information.. Cafcass thought he was God himself.
When dc hit 12 +14 they had the guts to dump him as a df and have never looked back at 16 +18.
At 10 one of my dc declared he knew df hated me more than he loved them. What a statement from a dc...
Sad

Sexnotgender · 22/04/2020 15:08

No. My ex husband is a narc and he’ll profess that he loves our daughter but his actions are not those of someone who understands that emotion.

LightenUpSummer · 22/04/2020 15:08

Agree with PPs, it led to me equating love with being tolerated as long as I never mention my own needs.

LightenUpSummer · 22/04/2020 15:10

Further to that, it led me to not even being able to identify my own needs (or tremendous guilt for even feeling them). That's with 2 narcissistic parents (lucky me!) so I'm sure your dd won't get that bad.

fannycraddock72 · 22/04/2020 15:11

hated me more than he loved them

Wow that sums it up perfectly

Elsiebear90 · 22/04/2020 15:27

My FMIL is a narcissist, she was overall a terrible parent (although she thinks she was brilliant), very emotionally and sometimes physically abusive. As such we won’t trust her to be alone with any children we have. I would be extremely reluctant to allow unsupervised contact, narcissists by definition cannot love anyone. Everyone is merely a tool to be used for their benefit, their own wants, needs, desires, ego etc are the most important thing, other people are made to suffer to benefit the narcissist including and especially their own children.

They are also very very good at maintaining a perfect image, so on the outside he may present to people as an excellent doting parent, but behind closed doors is a completely different story. This is because narcissist are concerned greatly with what other people think of them. They never believe they are wrong, and if by some chance they do think one time they were wrong, then it wasn’t really that bad or they were made to do it because of something someone else did. They take their emotions out on their immediate family, they bully and terrorise their family members into submission, everyone learns to walk on eggshells for fear of upsetting them, including their children. They make dreadful parents and can never change because narcissists never ever believe they’re in the wrong, please try your best to not allow unsupervised contact between him and your daughter. My fiancée is still paying the price (at 32 years old and 14 years after moving out) and probably always will for the abuse she witnessed and suffered from her narcissistic mother.

Fightingback16 · 22/04/2020 15:43

I absolutely don’t want any contact at all, I’ll fight for it but just worried incase he actually bothers to apply and they award it.

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Fightingback16 · 22/04/2020 16:01

Sometimes I read threads and people say that you can’t judge a father based on how they treated their wife. I’m certain when it comes to narcissistic abuse this must be taken into account.

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WH1SKERS · 22/04/2020 16:08

I read threads and people say that you can’t judge a father based on how they treated their wife

I disagree. How a man treats his wife is a measure of the kind of person he is.

Fightingback16 · 22/04/2020 16:17

I get that sometimes someone can not like their partner but love their kids.

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maria860 · 22/04/2020 17:00

They think they do as they don't know what love is

Healthyandhappy · 22/04/2020 18:42

Dont be selfish to your child and refuse contact. Are you claiming more from him?

chickenyhead · 22/04/2020 19:06

My ex was like this and I had always put up with him because I thought that kids needed a dad and he was good at the surface stuff i never seemed to get around to having time for. Despite him abusing and raping me, he always maintained that he was a good dad and I believed it because I am not perfect.

I always saw it that I made the cake, growing the wheat for the flour, carefully doing all of the essentials, and I saw it that he would put the icing and cherry on top for them. I was willing to sacrifice myself for them to have that.

7 years later, SS involvement and lots of therapy later and I finally realised that he was taking a great big dump in my carefully prepared cake.

My kids have suffered terribly but are recovering. Finally.

This type of man cannot love and they are a physical and mental risk to you and your children. I had a lot of support to help me realise that he would happily sacrifice them to make me pay. He proved it over and over. There is a strong link between coercive control and family annihilator. Read the lighthouse project.

Please protect yourself and your children from him. Our family went through all sorts of assessments to finally get a professional psychiatrists opinion that he was too high risk to ever have unsupervised contact. I now wish that I had had appropriate boundaries from the start so that none of us had to go through this trauma.

Fightingback16 · 22/04/2020 19:48

Thanks @chickenyhead that really makes me feel stronger in my decision. I have a boundary, no contact what so ever. It’s up to him, if he ever bothers to convince the relevant people. I think he is a MASSIVE risk to dd considering what he has done and how he has behaved. The 3 1/2 years of her life he was in he manipulated the s*t out of her to get to me and to make sure he was going to be the absolute king in her eyes. I started to notice he couldn’t cope when she didn’t do as he wanted. He used to bring her back early from visits and say here take your child she won’t do as she is told and I’ve shouted at her and feel bad. He also couldn’t manage her allergy and we had a couple of bad visits and a trip in an ambulance. I’m starting to believe now he either just couldn’t give a s*t about what she ate or he did it on purpose to get to me. There is no way I will willingly let him see her. I can’t see that he will ever change.

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Fightingback16 · 22/04/2020 19:50

People throw the word narcissist around, I’m sure it must be an actual mental disorder because it’s just not normal.

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chickenyhead · 22/04/2020 20:20

my ex would eliberately mistreat his and their diabetes. All diabetics can have occassional control issues, but the timing of his were predictable and telling. He always had a seemingly reasonable excuse that people were willing to accept and see him as the good guy and me as a mad conspiracy theorist.

He hated me getting therapy, so he would cause himself to have a hypo so I couldn't leave the kids. He also over injected them when I had began to put appropriate boundaries in place. My therapist helped me to see the truth and get through to SS.

When I finally got him out, he stalked us, turning up wherever we were. Acting like a kicked dog. He couldn't understand why. Threatening suicide which he never did successfully but he made surethatthekids saw the blood and knew it was my fault. All despite a non molestation order. All that mattered to him was his position of power over me and them.

So a year ago I put my foot down and made the decision that he would not have unsupervised contact. I had the psychologist report to back me up. I welcomed him to take me to court, but he never did. SS would pressure me to allow the kids contact but he never organised it.

A year later, there is no SS involvement, he doesn't see his kids because he says he can't afford to. They get so many presents from him delivered by relatives. So do i. He is still hoping to drag me back under, but he won't go via the court because I have evidence.

Keep a journal of everything. And do everything you can to keep them safe.

You will get a lot of people telling you that they need their dad. A well functioning mum is better than a half mum and psycho dad. Every time.

Griefmonster · 22/04/2020 20:21

Just to echo a PP - I am the daughter of an emotionally immature father (I really recognise the descriptions of covert narcissisism but am reluctant to diagnose). I was always physically safe but so emotionally damaged.

I have now been "discarded" by him but after the initial shock, I realised how much better I feel not trying to get his approval or dealing with the fallout when I don't fall in to line. I didn't notice how exhausting it was until I stopped.

If you can protect your daughter, then do. My mother, even though they divorced, insisted he was great dad. She could not see (and still doesn't recognise) the dysfunction in his actions (but her emotional immaturity is another whole thread!)

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