Can a narcissistic man ever love love their children!

[Fightingback16]

I guess I probably know the answer to this question but in my recovery form my abuse I kind of need validation of my actions. My husband was badly emotionally abusive and used my daughter who is almost 4 against me to evoke my emotions. I’ve gone no contact since December and he made a massive fuss, threatened me, retaliated angry and then upset etc etc but he still hasn’t applied for a contact order.

Do I need to accept that he never had and never will have any capability to love our little girl. She was just a pawn to get to me? It’s hard to accept these ideas, they are totally against human nature. I will do whatever I can do to keep her safe.

I’m so fortunate that I can see my husband for what he is before it’s too late. You have really helped me feel more secure in my decision. I’ve had a terrible ride the past year dealing with him and contact, the phycological fall out and having his and my truth in his head. I’ve come to a conclusion that I’m happy with, with all evidence in front of me that he is a dangerous narcissistic man.

OP, you are right people throw the word narcissist around but it is actually a personality disorder. Ime, they can't really love their children as they don't know how to love. They absolutely cannot see how anyone can have a viewpoint other than their own, so a child's needs or demands are fine if they fit in with the narc parent's desires but overlooked or attacked if they don't. There is also a lot of pressure on the child to treat the narc parent as golden - as King or Queen and dance attendance around them, dedicating their energy to making the King or Queen happy and never angering them. It's nerve-wracking and badly stunts any child's sense of self worth and self care.

The last few months before I left I noticed strange things. Eg I told him about the naughty step, she hit me in the face so I put her on the step. He said he doesn’t want that when he is home, he said the time with him must be amazing. He will never use the step. But then when she did something wrong to him he’d yell. He wouldn’t bath her, I’d have to pull her off him screaming for daddy and bath her upstairs whilst she screamed the whole way through for him. He would never come upstairs. I found it odd. Now I see he just enjoyed that I had to endure her screaming for daddy whilst I try and bath her. It’s sick!

It might be helpful for you not to analyse or imagine what his feelings and motivations are or were. With narcissistic traits, I agree with the view that there is very little consciously "sick" about them. And very little that such a person "enjoys". In your example about the bathtime, more than likely, he just didn't think about what was happening away from him "out of sight, out of mind". It is terrifying at first but hopefully eventually liberating - it's not that he has a sick game going where he enjoys toying with others. The feelings of others and their thoughts just don't enter his universe. It's quite hard to describe but once you "get" that, it makes everything a lot clearer. Heart-breakingly (for you and her) he CANNOT love your DD as a whole separate person. (Although he is most likely not aware of this fact).

I do feel sorry for him, I always have done which is probably why I stayed so long. He had a terribly abusive upbringing, a lot of violence from his drunk dad. When he spoke about it he toyed between I hated him and I used to dream of ways of killing him to I love him and he made me into the man I am today. His upbringing has probably done a lot of damage to him and he doesn’t have the capacity to understand. It’d not fair he took it out on me. Unfortunately he will do a lot of damage to our daughter because he did a lot of damage to me and he has absolutely no idea.

It’s absolutely heartbreaking for me because I had an amazing dad and I as a normal functioning person believe she needs to have a dad but I know he’s going to do all sorts of damage to her. It’s so unfair for her and the right but awful decision to keep him away.

I only really remembered this the other day, it had been lost in my memory. Before I met my husband he was a drug addict and he has scars all up his forearm, they were from cutting. I don’t understand why not but I dismissed it, he was not like that in the love bombing stage. I don’t think he likes himself at all.

OP my own DF had a very abusive upbringing too. As a family this is the reason we have allowed him to get away with abusive behaviour. He was never ever physically abusive. But verbally and emotionally he could be awful. Not all of the time. Most of the time he’s fine and sometimes very special indeed and kind. But looking back this was when we were ‘complying’ with his idea of what was right. As we grew up and made decisions he disagreed with that’s when the emotional abuse would ramp up. I don’t think he has any idea at all of the impact of his behaviour on his family. And also to the outside world he’s great and his family are all in the wrong.
My DF still hurts me now and I’m mid 40s. But if I had to choose between having him in my life or not, I’d choose a relationship with him. Our relationship isn’t ideal, it’s not what I would want it to be. I wish I could change him but I can’t. But I do love him. I still have massive fear of disapproval in all areas of my life which is an impact of my childhood. If I know he’s upset with me I get massive anxiety. This is the cost of having him in my life but I love him too much to go no contact and if my DM had prevented our relationship I’m not sure I’d have forgiven her. It’s tricky. I suppose my DF has always been in my life so I don’t have the other option to compare it to but he has damaged me.

Damaged with contact, damaged without contact. My husband unfortunately can not keep her physically safe, he is addicted to weed and I believe the emotional damage to her will be catastrophic. But then I guess that’s for professionals to decide when and if he makes an application.

@Fightingback16 You are disrupting a cycle that has been going on your ex's side for probably generations - his response to his upbringing, his parents response to theirs etc. What a lucky girl your DD is to have someone who can see this and act to assert adequate boundaries on her behalf when she is too young to do so herself. You can cross any bridge to contact when or if it comes up. But you have no responsibility to maintain a relationship on her behalf with someone who is not seeking one with her. In the future he may well paint this as you blocking him and paint you all kinds of awful but you know the truth of what you are doing. If your DD decides in the future, ideally as an emotionally mature adult, to have contact with her father then you will have given her the secure grounding to see his behaviour for what it is - highly controlling and totally conditional.

@Aminuts23 - I have so much sorrow for the damage your father did and while of course your decision to maintain contact despite the hurt it causes you, is your decision alone to make, I hope you have some support for this.

OP and you might find it helpful to read "adult children of emotionally immature parents" - I found it enormously helpful.

It helps understand how/why these patterns emerge in families and how you can navigate the tricky territory.

I’m emotionally immature myself, that’s why I got so easily hooked on my husband. I was emotionally abused by my mum. She was abused by her drunk dad and had a long terms health diagnosis when I was young. It’s been getting me down the last few months but I forgive her. She is just like me but she didn’t/couldn’t get past the emotional numbing. I’m an adult now so can’t live my life blaming her. I guess my husband had terrible abuse inflicted on him and it caused damage beyond his understanding.

I feel like I’m the breaker of chains, 2 families with abuse going back generations. There is only one girl from both families, my little girl. I want her to have better.

@Fightingback16 - you are awesome. We all have elements of emotional immaturity. But different people will be able to disrupt and challenge more than others. A complex mix of biology and psychology and circumstances I suspect. The fact that can see and recognise without judgement to your own first family is a sign you are VERY well equipped to navigate all this. And you will be left with a legacy of doubting your own instincts etc but also enough self-awareness to check in. Keep doing the work and you will see more and more that YOU HAVE GOT THIS.

He reminds me very much of my 3 year old. When she can’t do something she throws is, when she gets told she can’t do something she goes off and hits out. It seems he is stuck on his child like emotions. Very ego centric.

My Narc father absolutely loved me, I was a real Daddy’s girl
Until I started challenging him and his view of me as a cute extension of himself. Once I did that he turned on me big time

Oh @hoppinggreen that’s my absolute nightmare and I saw it on a few early occasions.

My father is one. He sees himself as God and his children are only there to obey and worship him. God forbid they have an opinion that he doesn't agree on.
This vile man has ruined some very important moments in my life, including making me cry the day after DS was born because even at that moment it was all about HIM. My equally horrible mother was defending him because HIS feelings we're hurt.

No OP they can't so please show your DC that at least you will and protect your DC from his influence.

My x is a total narc, and he loved them when they were tiny. They were so gorgeous, really beautiful looking kids and that reflected well on him. Now they're teens and my daughter's hair is bleached badly, her clothes are weird, she's a bit plump. I ignore it, but my x seems properly angry with her for going through a teenage phase. Our son is not a people pleaser (something my dd would be vulnerable to) so my son cannot be manipulated at all so my x hates that.

He will love them again when they are qualified adults I suspect.

No. They love their "toy/possession" when it does as it's told and/or when they get complimented for it and/or they bask in its glory...as long as they're bit overshadowed.

Note that I say "it". They don't view those close to them as real people.

Children will also find that a narcissistic parent will compete with them for any perceived attention. So if it's the child's birthday, the parent will either sabotage the day or make it about themselves instead. If the child is poorly and the parent thinks they're getting too much attention, the parent will either downplay the illness or say that they're ill too (sometimes with a "worse" illness or degree of illness), or try to get attention from doctors about it.

That's just two examples.

No.

Op, if your ex is actually a narcissist, then no, he can't love anyone. he can't love his partners, children or himself.

It's not sad for your children if they have little to do with him. It would be best for them. And I'm saying that as a daughter of a narcisstic person and the ex of such a person. I can see from both that a child is just an extension of the narc. will be used and abused at will. There to show case the narc. And discarded when they let him down. used for their purposes. My ex didn't see his children. They disliked him and stayed away from him. He seemed very disappointed in them - they weren't the people he wanted them to be. (they're grown up). he tried to mould them. He wanted adoration I think. My mother too. wanted to be the centre of my life. And she was for many years, but when I saw the light, she couldn't cope. My ex too discarded his children without a second thought. he sounds similar to yours (I have seen your threads) - abusive anyway to his partners, which in itself is a reason to keep him out of your children's lives. i agree - an abuser cannot ever be a good parent.

It's horrible mourning the relationship you wanted to have. I think you need to focus on your children, supporting them. They only need one fantastic parent. Protect them from him. My ex went on to have another child (he was desperate for one from me too). i feel so sorry for that child. I wouldn't wish an abusive, narcissistic parent on anyone.

I know you're at the start of the journey. Good luck.

Its hard for me to get my head around it when I hold what I think are relatively “normal” views on life. That’s why I always thought my relationship was odd and empty. I had no emotional connection to him, or should I say he didn’t have one with me. He couldn’t understand why I didn’t love him enough. How much did he bloody want!

@Wrybread

Children will also find that a narcissistic parent will compete with them for any perceived attention. So if it's the child's birthday, the parent will either sabotage the day or make it about themselves instead. If the child is poorly and the parent thinks they're getting too much attention, the parent will either downplay the illness or say that they're ill too (sometimes with a "worse" illness or degree of illness), or try to get attention from doctors about it.

This is my mother to a T. Emotionally immature and a narcissist, cannot BEAR not to be the centre of attention.

I was discussing my chemotherapy with my younger brother, in front f her - not something I would have done by choice, because I knew from long experience she would show no empathy, but he asked me a question about the pain involved. I told him it was the most painful thing I'd ever gone through...my mother, with her patented lemon-sucking face, said "The most painful thing I'VE ever been through was childbirth...and I went through that three times"

I was only 38 at the time and it was the second time I'd had cancer - I was first diagnosed when I was just 21. My brother and I just looked at each other in horror...

Oh god, what kind of bollocks relationship was I in. And I’ve been here a year feeling sorry. Ffs sake I think it time’s to move on. Thank you for all your real stories!