Is it fair to ask him to pay this?

[ERL1]

So, after a long time coming, I'm going to ask my DP for a separation.

Not married, no kids, joint mortgage. I want to ask him to move back with his parents. We live about a 20 minute walk from my work, his parents live in the same town he works in, some 30 miles away.

At the moment, we have separate accounts that our wages are paid into, and we transfer money over to a joint account for household bills. He pays for Council Tax (£200), and food (£200 per month) so he transfers £400 to the joint acct each month. I pay for everything else- mortgage, gas, electric, life insurance, pet insurance, broadband etc etc. I transfer around £1,400 per month to cover this. Yes, up till now he's had it easy.

Since it will be me instigating the split, and asking him to move out of his own house, would it be fair to ask him to pay half of the joint bills? By this I mean mortgage, council tax, life insurance, pet insurance. I would not ask him to pay gas, electric, broadband, or food.

He would need to transfer roughly £500 a month. Bearing in mind he won't have transport costs anymore either since he won't have a commute at his mum's.

This would only be up till this pandemic is over, then we can sell the house. I can't afford to buy him out unfortunately.

Is this fair considering I'm asking him to move out of his home?

*This ^ sounds absolutely fair in a family where one person takes a hit in salary and career prospects in order to look after children.

Two adults, no children ... not so much.*

That’s not the usual MN narrative when the lower earner is the woman though, kids or not.

“ Why on earth do you think he'd pay now when he never did before?”

This.

You've had a rough time here OP. You'll get through it.

I would get legal advice ASAP .However if you are both on the mortgage then I would be very surprised if he didnt have a claim on the property! Why has he got away with not paying anything ? If he does go, and you cannot afford the bills on your own ,you would have to sell /get a lodger in .I dont think he should be expected to pay half the bills when he is living elsewhere!

Right OP. I was in a very similar situation to you, once upon a time.

ExH did pay half of bills, but I put in all the deposit so I was also very worried that he would come after half of that. On top of the market crash of 2008 the house had lost pretty much all value and I thought I would struggle to remortgage.

I kicked mine out (asked him to go back to his parents) because of his constant emotional abuse. He thought he was a perfect husband and I was the wicked witch.

The first 3 months were tough, getting used to paying the bills, and there was no way he'd have contributed half to the bills because in his eyes, I didn't kick out an abusive husband, I was the evil witch who kicked him out of the home he'd been paying so much money into for 3 years (had no concept of bills before we met and thought I should pay him back..)

I was worried that he would try and claim 50% of the equity left, despite him not putting in anything and the house plummeting in value. This would have meant I lost all my deposit and wouldn't had been able to remortgage and likely have to sell and rent.

Stressful yes? But this isn't what happened.

I asked him to leave 3 times, he kept coming back. He eventually left, and thought I just needed a break. I used this time to pay down the mortgage to the level I could afford to borrow, I took on a lodger, then when I could afford to take on the mortgage I issued divorce proceedings.

Now this is when I gets interesting. He swore at me in Klingon (yes) but still didn't try and claim anything from the house. I suspect that despite his earlier bluster, he'd sought legal advice and they'd told him in his circumstances he'd probably be awarded less than legal fees.

He even tried to suggest he should get half of my car, and didn't understand that it was subject to a loan therefore not work all the money he demanded.

I remortgaged, divorced and got on with my life. The worst didn't happen. I figured because he was a lazy twat in life, the hassle of trying to get money from me was too much hassle in the end.

It'll work out OK. Don't torture yourself imagining the worst and just keep going. It's worth it, trust me.

A joint mortgage doesn’t mean that the house is split 50/50. All that means is that it took both of your incomes to get the credit represented by the loan and are both liable for the debt.

How much of the house value he is entitled to depends on the deeds and whether you are joint tenants (50/50) or tenants in common with specified split, e.g 70/30.

One way you can get him off the mortgage is to refinance it based on just your income and credit. Just you being on the mortgage does not require you to “buy him out”. Only if you were to change the deeds to be sole tenant (remove him as joint tenant or tenant in common) that’s when you’d have to buy him out or otherwise get his signature/consent. It is quite possible to have just one person on the mortgage and then two (or more!) on the deeds. Many couples do this where one partner is a SAHP with no income. It gives them joint ownership of the house despite not being on the mortgage.

You could discuss with him making him a tenant in common with whatever is a fair share of the house, say it’s 30%. Then refinance the mortgage into just your name. You can then buy him out later, or pay him 30% of profits after the house is sold.

Keep in mind though that if you leased the house, the rent would presumably cover the entire mortgage. In a sense you are his “tenant” for whatever share of the house is his. So it would not be fair to ask him to pay anything towards the mortgage or bills when he is not living there. If he offers, that’s then a nice thing for him to do. But he may be saving up a deposit for a rented property of his own to live in- I can’t imagine anyone just staying with mum and dad at his age with no plan to find and fund his own place.

the household expenses should be spilt according to income so the higher earner pays proportionally more.*

This ^ sounds absolutely fair in a family where one person takes a hit in salary and career prospects in order to look after children.

Two adults, no children ... not so much.

Why not? You are being discriminatory against certain career fields. Say one person is in a low paid career, like social services for abused children or as an occupational therapist for the NHS but the other is a high paid IT manager....you will have a great difference in earnings despite both partners working equally hard.

@planderaccordement me neither! But exH lived with mummy when I met at almost 30 and went back there when we split. Yes. It's obvious now...... (my 48 year old brother also lives with our parents)

Can only speak from my own experience, when my exH and I split up I was the one that moved out and I carried on paying half the joint mortgage but that was the only thing I paid. I didn’t want him to have any excuse not to divide the property 50/50 when we sold it.

You've posted this in Relationships when what you need is to move it to Legal advice - or, better, see a solicitor ASAP.

Get a spreadsheet together of what you've each paid towards the house and joint living expenses.

Did you contribute equally to the deposit and fees when you bought the property?

Do you have anything in writing with him outlining who would pay what? Did he agree to pay half and then not come through?

"I see no reason a good lawyer could not get you more than 50%.
He also can't come and go as he pleases if not living there, just as my landlord can't."

Of course he can. And there are lots of reasons he won't get less than 50% if they are joint tenants. Which they are likely to be.

@Treacletoots your situation isn't even nearly similar. The OP isn't married.

This will be a hard lesson to pay only what is fair in the future. A split of £400 to £1400 monthly is unlikely to be fair in a household of 2 adults with no kids.

The only bill he can be expected to pay is the share of mortgage and any insurances pertaining to the mortgage and home.

However, if he hasn't been paying to date it's unlikely he's going to suddenly pay.

All the time he's on the mortgage he has a right to entry. Unless there was a nonmolestation order due to aggressive behaviour etc.

@circusintown
Presumably to meet the mortgage criteria in the first place?

Thats not my question is it? I'm asking why would she have a joint mortgage if he's not prepared to pay his half.

So I've calmed down a bit this morning and done my calculations. I would be able to afford the bills on my own. This makes me feel so much better.

I've emailed my solicitor this morning so hopefully he will come back to me soon with my options.

To answer a few Qs..
The difference of wages isn't huge. I earn around £700 more than him after tax. I work 40h/week. He does 30h/week. His choice. He's been "looking for another job" for the past 6 years.

He did verbally agree to pay half at the start. That's why we set up the joint acct actually, to merge our "pot" so to speak and give us equal "fun money" (a MN favourite!) This was deemed "too much hassle" after the fact.

The deposit was given to us by my parents. I was going to draw something up with my solicitor to protect this in the event of a split but he guilted me out of it.

Christ on a bike - the sooner you leave this lazy sponger the better 💐

I was the one to move out, he moved in 2 lodger and I got half and paid half the mortgage. I didn't pay bills though.

He was able to buy me out

Sadly even though he may not have contributed in the past I think that legally you will have to buy him out.

You have a joint mortgage so the starting point is a 50/50 split on the sale unless you have anything protecting say a larger deposit you have paid. Really if you weren't married you should have had a tenancy in common mortgage and then you could have agreed what the split was based on contributions

I earn 3x husband - he contributes less but the mortgage is effectively 50/50 it's just I Pay for more of the rest of the bills

If I were him I'd argue the £400 contribution was half the mortgage unless you have it written down anywhere that there is no mortgage contribution made by him? It's your word against his that it's for council tax and food....

Definitely don't get yourself in this situation again....you should always hope for the best but plan for the worst in relationship financial situations

The deposit was given to us by my parents. I was going to draw something up with my solicitor to protect this in the event of a split but he guilted me out of it.

Oh god
so he's getting a free half a house for nothing?
as for being able to pay the bills, whats the benefit? He ends up paying nothing, and still gets half the sale of the house! You need to keep him paying his share until something is agreed

If I were him I'd argue the £400 contribution was half the mortgage unless you have it written down anywhere that there is no mortgage contribution made by him? It's your word against his that it's for council tax and food....

This would be my worry too. He could say you each pay half the mortgage then because you're the higher earners you pay bills. Unless he has direct debits for those bills or it's written as an agreement somewhere, he may have you on that one.

"Thats not my question is it? I'm asking why would she have a joint mortgage if he's not prepared to pay his half"

For the same reasons thousands upon thousands of people do.

Because they are planning a life together and their future but one earns more than the other. It's the same situation for plenty of SAHM for example. They don't just continue to rent if there is the option to pool their resources and buy.

It's a shame OP didn't protect herself better and a steep learning curve but the circumstances aren't all that unusual, complicated or shocking.

Op you solicitor might still be able to protect your deposit as my mum was able to get this back in a divorce as my grandad gifted her £60k so don’t lose hope.

This man will always be a worthless twat but after admittedly will be a rough 6 months it will be onwards and upwards for you.

@circusintown you are struggling to answer! All the situations u mentioned arent dependant on having one's name on a mortgage. You can plan to live with someone forever, but if u arent paying towards the mortgage, ur name doesnt need to be there. Earning more money has nothing to do with it... Keep the mortgage under your name and keep paying. If you cant get a mortgage in the first place cuz ur salary is low unless both salaries r joint, then both need to contribute. Its not rocket science.

Oh dear op you've been right totally screwed I'm afraid, both in regards to him taking the puss monthly and of course your deposit.

You need to get yourself a good, I mean really good, solicitor to thrash this out with.

Tbh can you try and grit your teeth and draw up something with the solicitor to protect your deposit before splitting up?

When I git divorced my ex didn't pay the mortgage (or bills) for 18 months prior and he still got 50% of the equity

When we did eventually divorce I paid him his slice of the equity and he signed a deed of trust, which meant he stayed on the mortgage, but had no further entitlement to any further equity. I could have chosen not to give him his equity at that time and he'd have had to wait until I sold. But I wanted it done and dusted so managed to beg steal and borrow the amount. But it is legally possible for him to remain on the mortgage and not have any further claim to equity.

It's a good time for you to do this as house prices will probably go down, get 3 valuations and use the middle one to work out equity etc. If he's greedy you could wave cash under his nose and get him to agree to sign over any further entitlement. Otherwise he may end up having to wait