Mortgage-free friends

[Nogoodwithgoodbyes]

Hey there. I hope you're all doing ok during this lockdown. I know all of our health is the most important thing.

Two friends of mine are mortgage-free. They are in the same group of friends. The thing is they both confided in me about this separately (one over fifteen years ago, one recently) and they pretend to the rest of the group that they're the same as the rest of us. I have to go along with their pretense even though I have never had any financial help myself from a parent or partner. I'm going through a separation at the moment and it's been very difficult to find a place to live without any financial help with prices as high as they are. Meanwhile, one of them is garnering maximum sympathy from the group because her work hours may be reduced! Little do they know, that she is mortgage-free and this doesn't have the same implications for her as it would for the rest of us.

I wish they hadn't asked me to keep a secret I don't want to keep! I wish the others in the group knew. I'm tempted to tell one of them. What would you do? Also, I feel awful for envying them their good luck but I think what bothers me the most is the artifice around it. One of them forgot she had confided in me once and starting moaning about her mortgage!! I gently questioned (because I'm a gentle sort, not confrontational, so the solution is definitely not a confrontation with either of them) 'do you have a mortgage?' and she looked like a deer caught in the headlights as it dawned on her that she had confided in me years previous.

Why all the pretense? Why pretend to be the same as the rest of us when they clearly are not? Why swear me to secrecy? There are numerous examples I could go in to of them moaning about money etc in a way that others don't and meanwhile, I'm always the only one in the room who knows how good they have it, financially!

Advice welcome.

Thanks for all of your comments. The point is that I find the pretending, the outright lying & the lying by omission really difficult to cope with. I really do. They are mortgage-free due to enormous cash gifts, not hard work and one of them has no childcare costs either & trust me, they’re loaded but for some reason, she likes to pretend. I know they’ve no car loans or any other debt because she has told me.

I don’t know. It’s just so hard. I’m trying to save to buy my own place,saving up every penny & still being generous & kind to others. Meanwhile, I have mates who have it so much easier financially (yes, they do!) but hide the fact and aren’t as generous either!

I’m beginning to realise that being the closer friend who gets confided in is not always a good thing. I’d be happy to never know about people’s finances & to adopt that stiff upper lip & avoid talking about money!

@PurpleTrilby
Yeah you’ve summed up how I feel!

Otherwise do nothing - it is not your information to reveal

This is so true & it would go against my morals to betray a confidence but boy am I tempted.

I’ve said countless times on this thread that I know all about their finances & trust me, they are in very privileged positions!

No, you know what they want you to know (unless you are in a professional position which would make you privy to the info).

Aha! So, you seem to know more about my lifelong friends that I do @Mum4Fergus

No, you know what they want you to know (unless you are in a professional position which would make you privy to the info).

Aha! So, you seem to know more about my lifelong friends that I do@Mum4Fergus

Well considering they lie to everyone else about having a mortgage, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they're lying to you about the rest of their finances. Maybe they're in debt and dont want you to know 🤷‍♀️

Honestly, this is just ridiculous if you don't mind my writing so! It is possible that some people really are wealthy, it is possible that some people really are privileged, it is possible that money brings out the worst in some people (me included it might seem when it comes to lack thereof!). It is possible that I really do have an accurate view of the situation and you are latching on to some fiction to make it seem like my friends aren't engaging in the very behaviour that is upsetting me and to completely miss the point of what the whole thread is about. I read people well. I know my mates inside out. They're loaded and like to hide it to avoid the envy of others (one of them told me that!). It bothers me that they hide it and that is the truth! End of.

I think if I were you if in future either outright lie about their mortgage hardship I'd cough pointedly and give them a hard stare........perhaps with the raised eyebrow of "Really??"

@BMW6

Thanks. That's a very good idea. I'm always the kind, reliable, sensitive friend. Maybe I just need to be a bit more real about things.

I know a couple of people like this, one in particular is always going on about average people struggles and yet has an amazing lifestyle, massive £30k wedding at 30 and fab holidays, I totally get why it's upsetting/ galling OP. The girl I know (she is more of a work frenemy lol) mentioned that she has no mortgage right at the start of when I knew her, I think she has forgotten or isn't sure that she has told me as has made out on numerous occasions that they have a mortgage/ the struggles of saving for a deposit/ prioritising holidays/ mortgages etc.

On the other hand I know a girl who whenever houses etc come up in conversation she will mention at the first opportunity completely graciously that 'we were lucky enough to have had our house bought for us by DHs parents' and it just comes across completely differently, no pretence, no 'how is it fair that she has this and that when I struggle'

I don't know what people find difficult to understand about your dilemma, I would also hate this. I don't have any advice about what to do, I would probably let it slip to friends when particularly upset but I know that's not ideal.

Why do you think they want to be secretive about it?? Do they think you are all going to be asking them to lend money etc? It seems weird to me if it’s the kind of topic that comes up. And if they are actually lying, that’s really odd

In my example we all work together in a banded/ graded workplace so we all know each others exact salaries too, the two in my example are on the exact same wage which is one grade below me for example

Thanks @christmastree43, you get exactly what I mean. It’s not so much about the luck as the pretence and somehow pulling me into the lies. I feel punished for being trustworthy. Maybe I should let it slip as you say. I’d probably feel very guilty though!

@tarasmalatarocks

I know exactly why they’re secretive about it, which I get but I wish I didn’t know any of it. I won’t go in to the detail as it’s very specific but in essence, neither of them want people disliking them for their luck.

Can’t you just tell them to stop lying to the others in the group about their financial situation , as you are feeling very uncomfortable about knowing the truth , when the others are being sucked in . I think most of us have the odd friend who is extremely wealthy , but they don’t even discuss it , no one does . Discussing finances is a bit tacky I reckon , unless someone really is in dire straits.

I can see your friends' pov, though. At a time when people are galvanised by a sense of shared misfortune, I am sure they feel their privilege would stick out like a sore thumb. I've a friend like this, I love her to bits, and although I found out by chance she had fibbed about an important aspect of her personal finances, I appreciate that it enables her to feel included in our friendship group of badly paid mortgage slaves, so I wouldn't in a million years call her on it. After all, her financial status, fictitious or not, doesn't alter the fact that she's an amazing friend.
But for you, OP, I am so sorry you are having to stay in such close proximity to your ex-husband during lock down. It must be tricky and uncomfortable, and I hope you are safe where you are

Other than feeling angry with them about this, you seem to value their friendship and wish to stay friends. If that’s the case, spilling the beans isn’t a good option for you.

PPs have suggested some options, eg reminding them in private that you know, steering conversation or if they lie. You could avoid group discussions about money and talk to people 1 to 1.

Understandable that you’re envious of your much wealthier friends and acquaintances. You seem absorbed in envy that their wealth is due to luck (gifts, inheritance etc). Even those whose wealth is from their own high earnings will almost always have had advantages over other citizens (eg family wealth/stability, upbringing, education, being a white man!) and luck. Most people who work hard are not wealthy.

You’re focused on doing the best you can for yourself and family.

Comparison isn’t likely to help, but if you do, perhaps also compare your income and assets to average citizens.

What do you want to happen OP? For them to make a big announcement, and beg for forgiveness? For you to 'out them' and everyone to be shocked and you can then like you are here tell all about how hard it's been for you knowing? How often does money come up in your chats with your friends?

If they bring it up again you could ask them how long till the are mortgage free? Or a different direct question which would put them on the spot .

They’re entitled to hide whatever they like... but it’s shitty of them to tell one person the truth then put on an act expecting them to go along with the lie. It’s kind of rubbing it in your face.

I think it’d be ok for you to ask them in private not to lie about it to the group. They probably don’t want to upset you.

Although I am mortgage free and always have been, I do have money worries regarding mortgages/rent. My brother is an essential worker but my SIL is self employed and has no work at all now. I am currently paying their rent as they live in an expensive part of the country and I don't want them to worry about the only thing I can fix at the moment. But I am spending my savings to do it, am unsure how long it will take them to pay me back and unsure if it will cause any problems in the future. So people who know me might be confused about my worries, but they are genuine

I can understand why they don't want people to know, especially as they didn't work for it, but by telling you, it feels like they just HAD to brag to someone and you fit the bill, being trustworthy. Your current situation is the polar opposite so no wonder you are mightily pissed off with them. Would try and be all Zen about it if you can, as it seems withdrawing from the group is out of the question.

Discussing finances is a bit tacky I reckon , unless someone really is in dire straits

I agree with this & what I’ve learned from all of this (I can only control myself, after all) is that from now on, I’m not going to discuss finances with friends.

Thank you @WomanIsTaken I am safe and well.

@Dozer
Yeah you’ve hit a nerve. I was raised working class & it was only when I went to uni that I realised how much money my middle-class mates’s families have and I guess it has always been hard in that sense.