Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My friend and her children. I just don't know what to do next.......

118 replies

littlemisstickle · 12/09/2007 11:45

This may turn into quite a ramble so apologies in advance.
One of my closest friends has got 2 daughters, aged 7 and 4. They have always been very difficult children IMO, naughty, rude and rather spoilt. My friend and her dh have had an odd/difficult relationship for a number of years, something which I don't think has done their children any good as their homelife has been somewhat bizarre.
The past year has been difficult as my friend and her dh split up. She has the children - he is useless and is very much a part-part-part-time father - and they have unfortunately been very unsettled since the split and have had to live in a few different places. The childrens behaviour has obviously not been helped by these changes, but I do not think it is any worse than it has ever been before. I have always found it difficult to know how to treat them as they are not really used to discipline but in my house and/or infront of my children I feel that I ought to discipline them the same as my children and insist that in my home they abide by my set of rules,etc.
Things recently came to a bit of a head from my point of view. I was giving them a lift somewhere when the 7 yo started hitting her mum because she couldn't get her own way on something. I got out, got her (the 7 yo) out and told her in no uncertain terms that hitting was not acceptable. She went to hit me so I grabbed her wrists and planned to hold on to them til she calmed down enough to apologise. However her tantrum continued. I picked her up and moved her out of sight of her mum and sister so that she could not "play to an audience" but the tantrum still continued with her shouting and screaming in the street. When I let go of her she hit me, kicked me, scratched me, etc. This all continued for some time, with lots of looks from passers-by. In the end when she started head butting me I told her that if she hit/kicked/anything again I would smack her bum. Now I have never smacked a child in my life, having felt that my own children are well enough behaved to not necessitate it. I also know that she (the 7yo) has never been smacked before. So, she hit me again so I smacked her bum (not hard at all, I was aiming more for the "shock" factor to try and snap her out of it). She hit me again, I smacked her bum again. And so on. In total, the tantrum continued for just short of an hour until she EVENTUALLY calmed down and EVENTUALLY apologised to both me and her mum. At which point, her mum was happy and went back to normal where as I was left feeling astounded at such disgusting behavious, and her mums reaction (or lack of) to it all.
So now I am left feeling extremely confused. I am not proud of myself for smacking someone elses child and I am sure my friend is not thanking me but what else could I have done? And I feel so cross, no angry, with my friend for raising her children like this. I know things have been tough for her but how can things be so tough that you allow your child to hit anyone? There is just no respect whatsoever. But I no longer know what to do with our friendship. I do not want to have to pretend to like her children anymore when they are, truth be told, actually not nice children. But I do not see how our friendship can survive when I feel like this. I also now realise that I cannot respect my friend when she has allowed her children to be like this.
I am sure there are people out there who will think I am in the wrong for my stepping in. I accept that, but am not on here to ask for opinions on that side of it. What I really want is some advice on how I handle the relationship with my friend and her children from here on in.
As predicted, this is a very long post. Thanks to anyone who makes their way through it!

OP posts:
niceglasses · 12/09/2007 12:42

Yup must say, in true MN fashion we are over-egging the pudding here. I think littlemisstickle has the message about the smacking.

lljkk · 12/09/2007 12:44

Sorry you're getting such a bad time on this thread, l-m-Stickle. Don't think I'd have coped any better, for what it's worth.

fishiapankhurst · 12/09/2007 12:47

i'm not sorry she's getting a hard time. she deserves it. and i still don't believe it is real.

WoodyGuthrieSleeves · 12/09/2007 12:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnnieBesant · 12/09/2007 12:48

LMT - I really am concerned that your friend. It is not normal to so completely abdicate responsibility for your child to someone else, particularly when what they are doing doesn't seem to be effective, or "your way" of doing things.

I would start by talking to her about how she is feeling about all the turmoil in her life, and move on from there.

lulumama · 12/09/2007 12:51

maybe your friend is depressed? and cannot therefore cope and has allowed her child's behaviour to escalate

PenelopePitstops · 12/09/2007 12:56

the mother of the child obviously has no problem with her hitting the child so why should op. I think you are being unduly harsh ahnd putting your opinions of smacking on to the thread.

I think you should try and discuss with your friend how to help her and her children. does she think she has a problem with them and that they are badly behaved? if this is the case she may need some supernanny type advice in hot to deal with them. obviously they have had a lot of problems and perhaps the children have been missed out in the middle so just try to get attention through being naughty. Your friend is probably exhausted and trying her best, and although what you did was wrong in some peoples eyes it might be the starting point to helping your friend, or her seeing she has a problem.

nappyaddict · 12/09/2007 12:57

I really don't think it was your place to intervene in such a way. she was in your car and you have a right to not have to put up with misbehaving children in it but not to react in such a physical way. it would have been fair to stop the car and say you would not be going anywhere until she behaved and if she continued to hit her mum threaten to go back home.

i think it sounds like perhaps the little girl is very confused and needs some help in understanding why she feels and behaves like this.

MaureenMLove · 12/09/2007 13:06

Talk to her LMT, its the only way. From what you said somewhere down here, you are more than just a passing friend. You need to talk to her about it and maybe you should apologise too. Good luck, I hope you can work it out.

Overrun · 12/09/2007 13:08

I have to agree with other posters that there must be something up with the Mother to just abdicate responsibility like that, quite possibly depressed imho
I wont add my voice to those condeming your actions as I will take it as read that you are not happy with what you did, otherwise you would not have posted here.
It does feel like you need to step back, for your friends sake (it might help her to resolve the situation take charge again) for the childs (who may well feel pretty let down by you) and for yourself and your family. You did overstep some boundaries which suggests to me that you are very stressed by this whole situation.
I would try and encourage a mutual friend to step in and support this family, so they are not bereft of support and step back and look after your own family.
Give every one a breather, sometimes we have to let go

Nbg · 12/09/2007 13:10

littlemisstickle, is your friend depressed? or do you think she might be?

I have this image in my head of this mum just watching while you battle with her child. Plus what you said about her lack of reaction afterwards just sounds to me like she is finding it very hard and probably appreciated you stepping in or that shes no energy to do anything about it. Or both.

Nbg · 12/09/2007 13:10

Just seen other posters have suggested this.

DaisyMOO · 12/09/2007 13:19

I wonder whether the mum is feeling very dependent on you and was concerned about losing your friendship/support if she stepped in when you were smacking? Or just feels so helpless that she didn't know what to say or do.

As others have said, I think you need to talk to your friend, apologise and admit you can't really handle the level of support she needs any more. I'm not going to condemn you, I don't think there's any point and although I don't think I'd react in the same way, I've never been in the situation and I'm not going to judge.

My kids' school has a family support worked attached, whose job it is to offer support and advice to families who are struggling like this one clearly is. Maybe you could find out if there's anything similar near you and point your friend in their direction. Keep your distance for a while I think.

WoodyGuthrieSleeves · 12/09/2007 13:27

I would be worried about the mother too. She must be at a terribly low ebb to sit passively watching while someone lays into her child like that. The whole situation is very

warthog · 12/09/2007 13:43

lost for words.

MitfordSisters · 12/09/2007 14:10

To me sounds like the mother of this girl is excessively passive. Perhaps it would be best to just write to your friend with apologies and then get on with your life away from her and her family. Sounds like your values are rather different.

1crazymumof2 · 12/09/2007 14:26

Littlemisstickle, i was recently put in a situation whereby a good friend of mine smacked my 2.10 DS on the backside because he had'nt responded to her orders quickly enough, only for her to then state 'oh, you do smack don't you?'
Needless to say we are no longer friends. You dont have to like your friends children but if you care for your friend,then i think you owe her and her daughter an apology, if you can't support her at this really difficult time in her life then call it a day. I can understand how frustrated you were, but i doubt its beneficial for her to have a so called friend walloping her kids.

dizietsma · 12/09/2007 14:37

So you were trying to show a little girl that hitting is not acceptable by hitting her? I think that's incredibly misguided.

There are a multitude of ways to deal with this kind of behaviour, and I think you were just taking our your frustration on the little girl.

Frankly, if you cannot be the grown up in this kind of situation, and have to have a tantrum of your own I think it's probably best for your friend and her children if you stay away from them.

pyjamagirl · 12/09/2007 14:41

omg I would have kicked your ass if you hit my child no matter how naughty she was

Doodledootoo · 12/09/2007 15:18

Message withdrawn

Saturn74 · 12/09/2007 15:29

I can't believe any mother would allow someone else to smack their child, and for their child to continue a tantrum for an hour without stepping in.

If someone had asked me to step in, I would have stopped that car somewhere safe, explained to the child that she can't get back in until she calms down and stops hitting people.

I would never smack a child having a tantrum.

It is pointless, and only exacerbates an already difficult situation.

And the behaviour of the OP is hardly setting a good example for any of the other people there - either the angry child, her sibling, her mother, or the OP's children.

But I say again, I don't believe that any mother would let her friend behave in this manner with her child.

AbRoller · 12/09/2007 15:29

just suppose you ARE this little girl...

So far your parents fight and your home life is 'bizarre' (the op's word), your dad doesn't give a shit about you, your mother is acting 'different' (I have been off work and on AD's so I have nothing but sympathy for the mother), you hurt and are confused, you don't know the right words to say, you don't even know who to talk to if you did. Your mothers friends hit you while your mother and another adult stand by. Nobody understands you, nobody and all because you don't understand what is happening in your very young life.

WriggleJiggle · 12/09/2007 15:30

Surely that's enough of the 'you were in the wrong for hitting' messages? LMT has asked for advice about what must have been a very difficult situation.

LMT you need to bring up the conversation with your friend, even if they do not want to. Perhaps starting it by explaining how difficult you find parenting sometimes, so it doesn't sound like a dig at her. She probably needs your help and support more than anything at the moment.

Saturn74 · 12/09/2007 15:32

I think that the mother of this child is looking to the wrong friend for help with her parenting, tbh.

harpsichordcarrier · 12/09/2007 15:33

doodle, I haven't posted anything more constructive because, I have said, I don't think the OP can help. clearly the mother/family does need help, but I think it is pretty obvious that the OP isn't the person to give the kind of patient, listening help the family needs. I certainly can't imagine the daughter would trust her again.