Do I "force" sister to spend time with DD?

[Whowantstogotothepark]

We live in Australia. My sister lives in the same city, which is why we moved here. We have one daughter. We have lived here for 5 years. My daughter loves her aunt and she is the only family we have here. My sister spent loads of time with us when we first moved here and was and is still is a lovely person. However as time as gone one we see each other less. I always invite her to join us about once every 2 weeks to a month to for days out, dinner or nights down the pub, etc. She never suggests anything ever at all with us socially.

About a year ago I noticed her saying no to invites. Then I realised she wasn't really spending anytime with DD any longer. I find it hurtful that she appears to not want to spend time with me and dh, but really it is DD that I am concerned about. We can only travel home once a year, so dd has only ds as family that she can see regularly. But ds doesn't seem to care about seeing her.

To put other facts out there: ds lives 15 mins drive from us, she literally drives past our house everyday on her way to and from work. Ds loves kids (is a teacher) and spends at least once a week with her friend's daughter (same age as DD - 8) and they go on holiday together at least a couple of times a year. I think that's what hurts the most.

Ds is single, has no kids of her own, but a full social life.

Anyway as a solution, I tried to organise DD going round to ds's place once a week after school to just hang out so that they can spend time together. Ds says yes out of politeness, but I need to chase her up every week, so I know her heart isn't in it (ds is a very organised person). Dh says I am forcing ds and I should just accept the situation. But I am really upset that ds just ignores her niece when she knows she is her only extended family her. And all they do is watch telly for two hours on a night when ds would be in anyway. By the way, dd is a really sweet little girl. No way a handful or nasty.

I actually feel hurt for myself and very sad for DD because if I follow dh's way of looking at it, dd would see her aunt very infrequently. We are moving back to Europe at the end of this year. DD and ds will see each once every year and a half from then on.

Am I wrong to force my sister to spend time with DD?

But no ones suggested it’s ‘strange’, @hokolo. Don’t you think it would be strange if you were pressured into seeing your nieces weekly by their parents, though?

OP you come across as pretty domineering whether that is how you write or how you are: your posts smack of you building expectations of your sister too high.

If you want to have a good relationship with her perhaps you guys need an honest conversation - about how much you miss her and how you feel. Don’t use your daughter to guilt her out and own your feelings.

Secondly from (bitter) personal experience if you move country to “be next to” someone you’d be amazed how quickly attitudes can change. Sounds like you had a good innings but perhaps the novelty of you guys being around her has worn off and she’s distancing.

It’s a harsh truth that families should only move for the benefit they can get for themselves. Friends and family are a bonus and shouldn’t be relied on as page after page on this site attests.

• Speak to your sister honestly and privately
• Get a friendship network of your own
• Build on all of the opportunities the move has presented for your family unit
• Respect your sister’s wishes no matter how much they hurt you

These are things you need to be telling your sister. Perhaps it would be useful to write how you feel down and either send it to her or use it as the basis for a discussion. I think she’s maybe too shut down from you right now to do a face to face. A kind and loving letter may work better.

Posted too soon. Please when / if you do this, Centre on your and your dds relationship with her, not on her bf or her bfs dd.

Contrabassoon Let's not derail for OP, but just to be factual. In this thread: "Why would an adult want to ‘hang out’ with an 8 year old child? That’s very strange" ~ McTits Sat 14-Mar-20 22:01:30

I don’t know why some people are being mean. You said you used to hang out more and something has changed. Could you try asking her? Maybe go out with her just on her own. It can be hard to change those family dynamics of not talking about stuff so maybe start slowly. Maybe you offended her somehow unknowingly or it is about her thinking about you moving away. You won’t know unless you ask

Was your time in Australia always going to be limited, or did you go out thinking it was for keeps, then decide to return to England? Looking back, did your sister's behaviour change around the time you decided you were going to come back? If so, this may just be different approaches - you think 'cram in as much contact as we can before we go', and she thinks 'no point building a close relationship when we'll be on the other side of the world soon'.

Hi OP,

You can't force her to do anything but I see it is causing you upset understandably.
I would try and have a calm conversation with her to find out if there is something underlying that is bothering her. It's better to know, hopefully it's something that can be resolved.

Your dh is right, you can't force the issue.

My db had kids before me, although I loved them and enjoyed my time with them, there's no way I'd have wanted to spend time with them each week. Maybe every couple of months I'd have been happy. I now have dc of my own but I'm still not really into other people's kids. Maybe your ds is just one of those people

She possibly feels more of an outsider with you as you’ve got your dh, whereas if her friend doesn’t have a partner she maybe finds it easier with her.

I don't think you should insist that DD goes over once a week. If she is a teacher probably the last thing she wants to do is hang out with an 8yo every week. It sounds quite controlling on your part.

My impression is that you are possibly being a bit overbearing about this, and I wonder if that is partly why your sister has distanced herself a bit. It’s understandable that you want them to have a relationship, but you should maybe let things happen (or not happen) naturally. I would certainly not push the once a week contact if you sense that your sister doesn’t really want it.

I’m a single, child-free 40 year old, with a good social life. There is nobody on this earth with whom I would schedule a weekly visit like this, and the thought of someone thinking they could ‘force’ it on me is abhorrent and actually repulsive.

Do you have that little respect for your sister that you think you can actually ‘force’ (your word, remember?) her to do something she clearly doesn’t want to do, to think you can impose on her home and her life that much and then think that she should actually be grateful to you??

You come across as quite judgmental too in how you state that she and your DD would only be watching TV anyway which is what your sis would have been doing if home alone. Firstly, you’ve no idea what your sister does in her free time in her own home. If my family knew what I did at home some evenings they’d be shell-shocked . Secondly, the evenings on which I do just watch TV are what I consider downtime evenings, and I enjoy curling up on the couch on my own, undisturbed by anyone. I actually dislike watching TV with someone else as inevitably people start talking/commenting/questioning and I can’t just watch the programme in peace. A child would be even more irritating in that scenario and I can’t actually think of many programmes that would be of interest to an adult and an 8 year old.

Also, don’t assume your sister is actually sitting in watching TV on weeknights either. The reality is you haven’t a clue what she is doing. My sister would probably say similar about me “oh Sammy has nothing to do in the evenings except put her feet up and watch tv” when in actual fact she hasn’t the first idea what I do. I am a private person and just because I don’t tell people what I am doing it doesn’t mean I am not doing anything. Your sister may well be the same.

Finally, you may see your child as very sweet, of course you do, she’s your PFB. Your sister may have a different opinion and find her tedious/overbearing/irritating/giddy/a whole host of other things and not actually enjoy time with her. And words fail me when I read the bollox spouted by another poster who has expressed pity that her sister has missed out on the love she could have received from the posters DC- yeah, not everyone wants or needs that, thanks.

How does your sister feel about your moving? If she started being less available when you announced it, that suggests she's distancing herself.

You're moving back to Europe and living your life as you wish and your sister can do the same.

My sister tries to do this with my DN. I'm sorry but I find children very boring.

Building lego and wanting to sit in my lap whilst they build it: a big 6 yo who is tall for their age.

Always trying to get in my lap, pawing me, grabbing my arms and making me hold their hand, can't sit on a sofa they're at me.

I know it sounds horrible but they're not my child and I find it irritating to be pawed and grabbed at all the time. I don't really like watching kids TV. I hate soft play and kids activities.

She knows you are leaving and she has made a life for herself.

Have you tried speaking to her?

What's your individual relationship with her like? Do you ever suggest just the two of you hang out? I'd try that first as her relationship with you is probably the primary one in her mind.

I just don't understand why any adult would want to "hang out" with an 8 year old (unless their own kid)?

Or vice versa?

I understand that you are hurt. But one thing that comes across from your posts is that you don't seem to have asked your sister what she wants to do. You've organised and in your own words tried to find solutions - but at any point did you ask your sister if she wanted you to facilitate time with your DD? Did you sit down and have an honest conversation with her?

You can't force people to be interested. It's not up to you how your sister lives her life, or who she spends her time with. Your posts about her come across as quite parental, as if you know what's best for her. If that attitude - even unconsciously - seeps into your interactions then I am not surprised she's backed off from you.

Exactly bookworm83.

It's actually really boring. I have 2 days a week where I don't have to be up at 5:30am and home at 7pm.

I don't want to spend those days playing with lego

Maybe she finds your kid annoying? One of my DN’s really rubs me up the wrong way. They aren’t badly behaved or anything, just really annoying and completely lacking in manners.

Also, at age 8, it’s not “hanging out”. It’s babysitting. I’d laugh at anyone who tried to force me to babysit their kid once a week. It would be “hanging out”, if she were 17. Not 8. 8 year olds can be generally irritating creatures.

I concluded that she didn't enjoy hanging around me and dh any longer. So i came up with this idea so that dd and ds could be together without us

This seems like a really odd way of responding. Surely if she had suddenly got the hump and gone off spending time with you, the last thing she would want is for you to back off without discussing it with her and then keep badgering her to look after your child instead? I know you say you don't want her for childcare, but you need to understand that regardless of your intentions, looking after an 8 year old without their parents IS childcare whether they are pleasant or not. They are not self sufficient, you have to look after them. It's certainly not something I would expect to be suggested/organised for me, rather than me offering. You also have to consider that although you say your DD is lovely, there is every chance she finds her difficult. 8 is rarely a particularly easy age for children, and other people do not find our children nearly as charming as we do.

I think the most likely scenario is that she doesn't want to be too invested in that relationship as you are moving away, which seems very rational to me. Your mum has even mentioned it to you which is probably off the back of what DS has said to her. As well as the emotional side of it, she works full time and has other friends etc, she won't have much free time and will need to make time for the things in her life that aren't temporary. For the record, I don't see ANYONE I live with more than a couple of times a month. That is a close relationship in my book.

It’s the constant pursuit of your perceived needs whilst repeatedly ignoring her signals and boundaries which displays pushy, controlling, selfish and overbearing behaviours which you might not realise.

Then the “solution” is just a blatant manipulation of your DS by you. She must be feeling hounded and furious.

Then the justification of this pursuit and disappointment of your DS comes across as judgemental, self righteous and lacking in empathy if you realise that or not.

If you were raised in a v dysfunctional family then it is no surprise that you behave inappropriately as this is your blueprint. Maybe take some time out to address these deficiencies. Life will be much more fulfilling. I have done this journey and life is much simpler when you manage your emotions, expectations and behaviours differently.

She distanced herself from you, so your response is to distance yourself and DH even more, while expecting her to spend one evening a week alone with DD? That's a bit odd unless DSis was obviously still very keen to spend time with DD. Even if your intentions are good, if you haven't talked to your sister and asked what she actually wants to do, then from your sister's point of view it must seem as if these days you mostly want her for childcare?

It does sound as if she was finding the relationship with you a bit much. Once you were settled in she might have expected you to dial things down a bit. She had a life of her own before you arrived. It sounds as if you expect in some way to replace DSis's friend, or at least to be treated in the same way as this close friend and her DD. But if you didn't naturally have that sort of relationship before you moved to the same city, if you weren't constantly on the phone to each other, meeting up to go on holiday together etc, then that's a lot to expect. And if you don't naturally talk to each other, well, it's very hard to build a close relationship.

One good thing... the fact the your DSis does spend time with your DD each, when she has a lively social life and a job and it would be easy enough for her to tell you she is too busy, says to me that even if she isn't so bothered about seeing your DD every week, she does still care about you and DD and she doesn't want to lose or hurt either one of you.

My family is also one of those that doesn't talk about personal issues. I found that quite hard when I found out about my exh's affair - I was pretty depressed and getting therapy, but when I visited them, it was all just cheery chitchat as usual. So there was me, the only newly single woman, with three happily married couples, unable to say anything at all about my problems. It was even more depressing than sitting there on my own staring into space. I also live abroad, and this really rubbed it in for me that I had no support from my family and should not expect it (having not been there for them either for so long). I didn't cut myself off from them or anything but have stopped bothering even more, partly as a defence mechanism, probably.

You might not see it as asking for childcare, but how you see it is not the point. It's how your sister might see it. You've withdrawn and have just been sending your daughter over. You explained why to us, but to your sister? Can you honestly say that you know for sure this hasn't left your sister feeling like a childminder, or like you don't want to see her?