My dad

[beloved1988]

I'm 31 and have for as long as I can remember had a very difficult relationship with my dad. It is all "fine" for weeks (as in he is not too bad and I go along with him) but every few weeks he has an outburst where he goes absolutely nuts. This is normally brought on by the fact he can't contact me as I'm asleep/phone is dead so I'm unreachable for a few hours.

I'm not sure if he is a narcissist or not and actually whether that even matters. He expects to be able to contact me whenever he chooses and if I happen to be sleeping (I have three children and two under two and I am shattered) he goes absolutely mental, does a two hour train journey and hammers on the door shouts through the letterbox etc.

Last night I left went to bed at 7 when the two oldest were in bed and the youngest was with my partner and I woke up to 17 missed calls and many insulting messages saying I'm a selfish little bitch as he's been working all day and he can't get an answer and is worried out of his mind.

He did the same to my mum which led to their divorce and now I feel he does it to me in place of her. He also badmouths her to me at any chance he gets, insults my skills as a parent and is just generally controlling and unsupportive. How do I deal with this??

Your Father is toxic unfortunately, and you have been cast in the role of supporting him for most of your life, so yes it is entirely usual to feel sorry for him despite the fact that he doesn't deserve it. A decent Father and Grandfather doesn't subject his daughter to tyranical and abusive messages and texts nor tell lies about them to their grandchild's school. With regard to your oldest DS it isn't good for him either to be the focus of his GF attention to such a marked degree. His behaviour will eventually result in your other children being hurt and possibly with your eldest becoming the 'golden child' which causes its own issues. Do you want your eldest thinking that he is better than his siblings or that it is acceptable to talk to you however he wants because he can always count on GF to back him up? Please at the very least vastly reduce contact with your F until he can treat you in a normal manner.

I've looked up the FOG thing and yes it resonates. Will look into it more and hope he doesn't contact me in the process

Before this thread I actually didn't see any immediate issue with him favouring my eldest as the others are so young - but this has opened my eyes. I didn't see it as a huge issue as they have their dad and the ten year old doesn't but actually it's clear that he should view them the same regardless and not take it upon himself to decide which is them is most worthy of his time.

I had this with my mother, not to this degree but always doing things I didn't want because otherwise she would be upset or suicidal.

I had counselling and gradually saw the light, since then I have put in boundaries with her, which have been difficult but they have worked. We still stumble on occasion but I reinforce my boundaries with her and refuse to talk with her when she pushes them.

It isn't easy, and I know it can be difficult to do - and even harder to cut someone out entirely but do some research into this, and start asserting yourself and your needs. You are a Mum with a very young baby, you don't need this- he is being grossly unfair, abusive and controlling.

my MIL sometimes goes on totally inappropriate rants about the most inconsequential things -

things she think's we're not noticing as parents (things we've consciously decided not to battle with DCs about), the state of our house, everybody's diets.

but really it's just her way of relieving her frustration about the state of her life at the moment. she's very unhappy, and has lost several close friends in the last few months.

this is on top of us becoming less reliant on her for childcare as our DCs are teenagers now - she is losing control of lots of aspects of her life, and she is not really coping or dealing with it appropriately

we don't have anything as nasty as you've described, but it may be coming from a similar place of frustration.

i think many people of our parents/grandparents generations struggle to deal with mental issues, as they were just not discussed or treated previously - and were just suppressed.

that doesn't make it ok. and you are perfectly right to call him out on it whatever the root cause.

it also doesn't mean that reducing contact/exposure to your DCs is wrong either.

but i just wanted to point out that not all toxic behaviour is due to woman-hating narcissism.

IANAL and you can check on the legal board, but my understanding is that he can't remove himself as guarantor. Once he has signed his name up, that's it and there is nothing he can do to remove it as long as the landlord wants to keep it there.

I've seen a few cases where people have signed themselves up as guarantors and can't get away from it.

I'd have a discreet word with your landlord, because (as I understand it) if your landlord doesn't remove your father, and you default, he can still pursue your father for the money, even if you and your father are not in contact and your father is barred from seeing any of your kids.

I'd check this, but I'm fairly confident, so I hope that puts your mind a little at ease.

A fewMonths ago when I was still pregnant I let my son walk to school and because he hadn't heard from me that morning he phoned the school and raised an alarm that something must have happened to me

That is scary. In fact, all of your posts regarding your dad’s behaviour are worrying.

If it was your partner behaving like this, people would be telling you you are in an abusive relationship. This is abuse, OP.

I know of a family where the MIL/grandma was obsessive over one of the grandchildren like this. When he became a teenager, the boy moved in with his grandmother and there was nothing anyone could do about it, despite lawyer/police involvement. His relationship with his parents is hanging by a thread.

For your sake and for the sake of your son, please end this now.

"Any red blooded man would be the same about their daughter!!!l" ugh

Makes me feel actually sick

It's not just me it's my poor sister too. He had phoned our workplaces on multiple occasions

When I was a teenager would phone my friends to find out where I was. He was labelled a "creep"

Does your mother know about how he is behaving towards you and your sister - what does she say?

She knows and she says cut him out

ok, so based on all the other (frankly disturbing) revelations since my original post, i completely agree this is more than just misdirected frustration!

your DS may have a good relationship with his grandad, but do you need him having such a poor role model in his life (especially given he's such a prominent one)?

i'm a father of a 16/17 yr old DD. of course i want to protect her from harm. but i also want her to enjoy her life, and have amazing experiences and build meaningful friendships and relationships - my own concerns do not trump her need the freedom to do these things.

oh, and "red-blooded" is pretty much always another way of saying "misogynistic"

I haven't heard any more from him since yesterday but I keep thinking of him being at work and feeling sad and it's horrid

My eldests school is a five minute walk and since having my youngest (three months) I've allowed him to walk to school alone, many of his friends do the same. I've had to conceal this from my dad as he said it's so dangerous and if I let him he will travel down every morning to walk him to school.

A fewMonths ago when I was still pregnant I let my son walk to school and because he hadn't heard from me that morning he phoned the school and raised an alarm that something must have happened to me

This is awful you know. It's a terrible way for a 10yo to live.

You can have mixed feelings about your Dad but you can also look with clear eyes at what's actually happening

• intense control of you
• intense insults and abuse
• extreme efforts to make sure you are at his immediate beck and call, to the point of travelling 2 hours each way to hammer on the door and shout through the letter box
• consistent favouring of boys over girls (that is so damaging for everyone!)
• refusal to allow your son any freedom at all
• ringing your school/workplaces
• lies about you.

this is intensely controlling and terrible for you all. If you look at what he -does- instead of what he -says-, he's a frightening, clever and manipulative man.

Your life is not your own at the moment. What on earth does your partner think of all this?

I think you need to take a very, very long step back and to limit contact far more than you do now. Give it thought over time, but it's the healthiest for you and for your children. The harassment going on here (shouting through the letter box if you are alseep!) is extreme.

I think because it's always been this way I don't see a lot of it as shocking as it is to an outsider. He's messaged me now as if everything is normal, no mention of any of it. And classic me I have replied pleasantly just happen things are back to "normal" and he's no longer cross

you are too used to it. Anyone - everyone! - outside sees clearly that this is a very, very abusive man with an unhealthy effect on you and your siblings and your children

This has been your “normal” - you have absorbed and internalised his aggressive, controlling, histrionic, racist, misogynistic, verbally abusive, stalking and harassment behaviour. This is so toxic and dysfunctional.

You must have severe anxiety to be on hyper alert, tap dancing to his tune to avoid another flip into rage.

All of this emotional energy you are expending negatively on him is draining you of your finite emotional energy reserves which your DCs need positively from you.

Your DF is robbing your DCs of the best upbringing because their DM is preoccupied, anxious and emotionally exhausted with HIM.

You cannot be in two emotional places at once. You cannot be as attentive and attuned to your 3 boys and DP, you cannot provide a calm and peaceful home if some raging old man is banging on the door and screaming through the letter box and their DM is on pins.

This is terrorising your children - it is domestic violence and abuse and you are inadvertently facilitating it. It will cause emotional injury to all of them - they will have behavioural issues as children and MH issues as adults.

This man needs to be out of their lives. You may well need therapy to help you to see it and to hold your boundaries. Make a big long list of his bad behaviour incidents from your childhood and alongside write down how YOU felt at that time - I suspect fear and shame. This is how your boys will also feel.

Your 10 year old must feel shock that his little one year old brother was left behind. Don’t let your DCs believe that this is an acceptable way to treat a one year old.

In therapy they will explain to you that you feeling sorry for this abusive man is “normal” for victims - but it is not appropriate and they will teach you how to “see” it and then deal with it.

Well done OP for setting your ten year old to start getting this abuse off his grandad when he gets older. Just carry on as you are and when it happens to your son he won’t be shocked either. When he comes to you asking for advice on how to deal his disgusting texts you can just say but son, grandad did it to us too, it’s ok

Just wanted to say how you unfair on you that you’re taking responsibility for his emotional wellbeing when he’s so clearly disregarding yours. His needs are not more important. He’s trained you to respond like this.

Use this ‘normality’ to deal with how you interact with him, don’t wait for another outburst, if you can? I know how hard it is!

@Summersunandoranges really not needed but thanks

You have been conditioned from childhood to behave like this around him. I am glad that your mother finally left her abusive H but by then it was too late because he has indeed inflicted an awful lot of damage on you in childhood; damage that is still very much evident to this day. He really does have you dancing to his tune. You can break this cycle of abuse and your children are relying on your good judgment here as their parent. Your dad's abuses of you (and your sibling) is not your fault; you did not cause that to happen and you did not make him that way.

Would you be willing to see a therapist and importantly one at that who has no familial bias despite the presence of mistreatment. I would agree with comments made that you do need therapy.

As gutterton says, it is normal that you feel for him. Therapy really would help you to unravel this and I hope that you can. It will really help you to unpick this for yourself and to work out your boundaries.

He sounds like an angry, controlling man who is acting out of some kind of misguided 'love'. Abusive texts from ANYONE is not ok, he has NO right to talk to you that way.