Live cam sites. So confused

[BeeHopeful]

Yesterday I asked to use my boyfriend's laptop - we have been together for about 10 months and things have been fantastic. He treats me really well and is very loving. We don't live together but were planning it in the next few months.

He was really cagey about me using his laptop and I just got a feeling. I asked him if there was something on there he didn't want me to see, he insisted there wasn't. It escalated into a bit of a row, I suggested I should go home as I felt he wasn't being honest. I went downstairs and he deleted his browsing history.

When I came back upstairs I was very calm and explained that I needed honesty. He was quiet for about five minutes and was getting visibly upset, saying he'd never told anyone, he was so ashamed, he started crying. After a while he told me that he's had a problem in the past with live cam sites, he spent quite a bit of money and a few years ago went to counselling about it. He stopped using them but began again, to a lesser extent, a couple of years ago. He's been using them while we've been together. I asked him to show me and he grudgingly logged in. It was pretty much what you'd expect, he showed me his inbox and he didn't reply to PMs, he said he would just chat as he used it.

He said that he would talk to them about all sorts, of course I know it was sexual but he wouldn't come out and say that. I tried to stay calm as he was visibly very upset but I explained that to me this is crossing a huge line and I consider it cheating. He seemed genuinely shocked that I saw it that way.

Here's where I'm up to. I'm furious, sad, I never expected him to let me down like this. I also recognise that he told me in the end, he didn't need to as he'd deleted the history (he said he did this in a panic). He tells me he didn't think about what he was doing, it's a habit, he feels like an absolute twat etc. He tells me he is calling the counsellor today to get booked in.

What do I do? I can't talk to anyone about this and I'm so confused. A huge part of me feels like I know he's a good guy, he's been an absolute moron, he sees that, I want to just move on. Another part of me (coming from a history of abuse and real full on cheating) is screaming "run" because my history tells me that bad things always happen. I'm trying not to react to that voice.

I guess I just need some consensus and sense talk around this - right now I'm full of emotion and so so confused. I wanted to live with this man, he's someone I saw a real future with.

I honestly could be with someone that used those sites. The cheating aspect aside, they cost loads of money. He’s tried to quit before as it was a problem for him but has not managed to kick it so you need to ask yourself if you can be with him knowing that he’s using them (I wouldn’t trust any promises from him that he won’t use them again - he has already proven he can’t keep that promise to himself let alone someone else).

I would move on and away from this man; he has seemingly got a long term live cam addiction and that way lies more pain. I doubt very much too he would have at all booked an appointment with a counsellor if you had not found this. He is Mr Wrong.

You state this re yourself:-
"Another part of me (coming from a history of abuse and real full on cheating) is screaming "run" because my history tells me that bad things always happen. I'm trying not to react to that voice".

If this is the case I was wondering if you have heard about the Freedom Programme run by Womens Aid. It is for those who have been in previously abusive relationships. Your boundaries, perhaps already skewed and messed up by previous bad relationships, will only get further messed up with this man if you choose to remain with him. When people show you who they are, it pays dividends to believe them. Consider too what you learnt about relationships when you were growing up and unlearn the rubbish through counselling. He is not a good a man as you thought he was.

Nah that would be it for me.

Why do men when caught out seem to cry? It’s called manipulation.

Firstly he wouldn’t let you use the lap top.
Secondly he then deleted his history
Thirdly, he suddenly tells you the ‘entire truth’ ( all in a short space of time! )

You have been led to believe he loves you enough to be fully honest.
I’d get my hands in that lap top and be looking all over it. You can check emails as quite often they are linked. Check recycle bin etc. Do not get blinded by his ‘dazzling honesty’
A lot of guys who have these problems or cheat, are masters of manipulation. It’s how they get away with it time and time again leaving a long line of hurt women. He’ll tell you you’re the special one which is why he wants to go to counselling. He wasn’t taking this view before you found out was he?

I feel your pain. I would suggest a break while he goes for more counselling. Stick strong to your boundaries. If you stay now you are telling him it’s ok. I don’t mind guys using (vanilla) porn, but paying to talk to other women would be a total deal breaker for me.

Finish with him. He does not respect you, if he did he would never have gone on that site. Imagine if you had chatted to other men behind his back he would not like that. It is a bit like a dating site really browsing and chatting. I bet he asked them to do things and spoke on the phone. Some of those women are probably doing it against their will, so he is condoning abuse. This guy has serious emotional issues and it is not your job to rescue him. It is better to find out sooner rather than later.

I wonder what else was in the deleted history...

He is addicted, cagey and manipulative, and lies if he can get away with it. Not attractive qualities, are they... Are you quite sure he might be the one for you? A lifetime can be a very long time.

Oh god I was worried you'd all say that. I know you're right and I'd be saying the same to anyone else. Bizarrely, I'm able to say that it doesn't feel "that" bad to me because I immediately compare to the bloody awful behaviour of my exes.

I keep typing and finding that I'm slipping into defending him and trying to tell you all the great things about him. Does anyone believe that this can just be a habit? Habits can be broken?

I really need to think through what to do. I can't believe this is happening, I've had the happiest year of my life. I'm a different person. How can this be?

He seemed genuinely shocked that I saw it that way.

How convenient for him.

Would he consider you "chatting" or making sexually explicit talk, while masturbating, while watching a man performing sexual acts and interacting with him about that .... Not to be cheating?

There have been so many threads here recently about private lap dances etc and to me this falls under a similar umbrella .... There's always a convenient get-out clause as to why it's not cheating - just because you do it with a sex worker in the context of a strip club, or you do it with a sex worker online/remotely.

But would it be cheating if their partner was doing it with/for another man? It's the height of hypocrisy, piss taking and being disengenuous.

Sorry but I also think he's playing the addiction line to try to get sympathy and make out he's a victim of an addiiction, rather than making a free choice. Addiction always seems to get trotted out when men get caught cheating. Then the focus gets moved to their victim good and their counselling and blah blah instead of the real victim of their behaviour. It helps them not take real responsibility imo.

Even if it truly is an addiction, does that really make it any better? That means it's something he'll always be trying not to do,cm absolutely probably relapsing into .. addictions are incredibly hard to stop and stay stopped. So who wants to be caught in the middle of that. If you don't have any major commitments to him (in fact I'd still say go even if you did) why do this yourself. He's at best a sleazy cheater, doing something that would be a deal breaker for most people (note people, no way would men take cam men, if such a thing existed, from their partners) , at worst he's actually addicted to it and that's am ongoing mess.

*victimhood

I am sorry but you said yourself things have been going great....and he still uses it. What is going to happen when you go through a bad patch?

As an aside he'll also waste his money, and if you get into any kind of shared finances, your hard earned money .. on sex workers he's wanking with via cam.

Im.sure he's a "nice" guy in some ways, they all are, but he doesn't sound like a good bet.

Ugh sorry OP what a horrible situation 😔

Bizarrely, I'm able to say that it doesn't feel "that" bad to me because I immediately compare to the bloody awful behaviour of my exes.

Just because you've been with 10/10 level wankers before doesn't mean that a 7/10 wanker is acceptable.

You're less than a year in. No ties like house or kids. It will never be easier than now to end things with this man.

You have no financial ties either, thank god, which means he hasn't used your money to continue the habit. That doesn't mean he wouldn't in future. He's an addict. Addicts will steal and lie in order to get a fix.

They may well hate themselves afterwards and cry, but their behaviour is still damaging to the people around them and being sorry doesn't mean those people have to accept the behaviour.

It's this hard, this soon. That can't be right.

He wouldn't have told you if you hadn't asked to use his laptop, would he? He'd have carried on.

Please don't waste any more time on someone who lies in order to do something you find hurtful and upsetting.

He would be doing it this week if you hadn't found out

In the kindest possible way, OP, I think perhaps your past experiences are clouding your judgement. I would say most women would consider this a dealbreaker; his "shock" at your reaction is part of his manipulation, in the hopes that if he can convince you that you're overreacting you'll let it go. I would also be highly suspicious that there is more - being so cagey and deleting everything suggests there is the possibility he has been doing other things he knows he shouldn't. Not to mention if he can break down this boundary it leaves him open to escalating his behaviour - "well you didn't leave over the cam girls, why leave over sexting / lap dancing / escorts / a one night stand?" He's also sowed the seed of being the victim and he "can't help it" - seems like his get-out-of-jail-free card for any future cheating. You've said this crosses a line for you, so end it. At least it's only 10 months and at least you know now before you live together and have joint finances / a baby etc. Honestly please please stick firm to your boundaries and prioritise your own self-respect over the weeping and wailing of a cheater. You will be happier in the long run.

What Atilla said. Run fast.

He’s an addict and they are all expert manipulators and liars. Not good qualities In a partner.

He’s NOT shocked that you don’t approve. If he thought it was ok , why did he never tell you about it ?

He hoped you would fall for the “ poor me, it’s an addiction, I can’t help myself “ line. He shocked that you didn’t fall for his excuses and that his tears didn’t work.

I know you will be upset but it’s better that you found out now before you moved in together.

I agree with Gilbert, he's a sleazy lying misogynist. Please OP, it's only been 10 months and you don't live together. Don't ring your hands over this, don't spend hours trying to understand it or make peace with it, don't waste your energy having long draining conversations where he cries and asks you to help him be a better man. Just chuck this one back. It's only been 10 months, seriously. Just call it a bad job and move on.

it doesn't feel "that" bad to me because I immediately compare to the bloody awful behaviour of my exes.

Just because you encountered (outright) cheaters before, doesn't mean to have to accept a different type of cheating now (as well as the waste of money and the willingness to get involved in the sex industry (I mean it is a type of prostitution; just remote prostitution rather than direct contact prostitution).

Personally I think it's v difficult to find a man who never uses porn )and that's a while other debate) but use of web cam "girls", essentially prostitutes/sex workers is a while level above, that many many people would not find acceptable, and you don't have to accept it .. you could find a partner who doesn't do it because he recognises/acknowledges that it is that whole level above without having to be told, or wouldn't spend money on "services" like that or whatever comb. of reasons.

Not one who does it saying he doesn't realise that (disengenuous, I think) and even worse says he has an addiction to it.

@ThisSistineWontScreamAtItself is completely right - just cos you've been with a 10/10 wanker doesn't mean a 7/10 wanker is acceptable. I am totally, totally stealing that.

Even if I put my feelings about cam work/sex work generally to one side for a minute AND take it on face value that this is the worst of his behaviour: this is a habit which he cannot break. He's been to counselling about it, recognised it was causing him financial problems, stopped - and now he's restarted again. He's addicted* and you'll never trust him again. It's broken.

*And personally I think we have to be very careful about the narrative around 'addiction' because it means we let people off the hook for completely unacceptable behaviour. But either way, you can't cure him, you no longer trust him, you're only 10 months in and not enmeshed yet. You need to leave him lass.

"Another part of me (coming from a history of abuse and real full on cheating) is screaming "run" because my history tells me that bad things always happen. I'm trying not to react to that voice"

Please listen to that voice OP and move on from this guy. He is a self admitted addict to this kind of behaviour and most addictions escalate, so for now it is "only" the cam sites and chatting to women online, but how long before that it not enough? Run.

I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but I don't see a huge difference between this and porn.

He's been honest with you about it when he could have lied, so, although this is not a very nice situation for you to be in he clearly has a enough respect for you to tell you the truth and acccepts that he needs some help.

I would be absolutely fuming too and don't want to give you bad advice but from his perspective he's probably getting the buzz that most people get from watching porn.

Hard situation for you to be in OP but for me would not necessarily mean it's over.

I think the saddest part is you were so happy and presumably so was he and he was not able to address this during these good times. He kept going back to it, behind your back. What he does when single is his choice, but he knew this would hurt you and still engaged in it.

Why did he not go back to counselling again when you were together to be fair to you? Clearly he did not want to.

Only you can make the decision on what to do now. I'm really sorry you are hurting.

After a while he told me that he's had a problem in the past with live cam sites, he spent quite a bit of money and a few years ago went to counselling about it. He stopped using them but began again, to a lesser extent, a couple of years ago. He's been using them while we've been together.

So he's been using them in the first ten months of a new relationship that has apparently been going well, with a nice, committed girlfriend and presumably a normal sex life etc. So even when things are simple, positive and relatively happy (and you're actually in the honeymoon phase of a relationship!) ...he's using live cam/sex sites?!

It doesn't bode well for him stopping (and sticking to stopping) his "addiction" does it?

Even if you forgave/got over his behaviour to date (while you've been faithful he's been interacting sexually with other women behind your back online ("don't care if they're paid and they're sex workers, don't use those excuses" would be my view)) ... That ongoing situation, always wondering if he's doing it and just hiding it better, sounds uncomfortable, miserable even.

Have you got kids already or would you like them; imagine being pregnant or dealing with a baby/child and suspecting he's doing that, or finding out he was back at it again; it's not a position anyone wants to be in.
As I said, if you get into commitment with him, it will be the double whammy of him using your fkg family money to do it too.

He's been honest with you about it when he could have lied

He was honest only when he could no longer get away with lying to the OP. How does he clearly have respect for the OP? Because when caught out he couldn't invent some arse covering story on the spot? It is not the OP's job to help this guy become a better man and "heal" him.

Why did he not go back to counselling again when you were together to be fair to you? Clearly he did not want to.

This.

Even if it truly is an addiction (I echo the other poster who said that addiction tends to get trotted out to help people get off the hook when they've acted super shittily), when he knew he was starting it again - if he ever really stopped - what did he do? Go back to the counselling he said he had before, do whatever they advised him to do if he felt he was in danger of doing it again? Nope he did nothing, he just went ahead and did it again, even while in a newish, good relationship with a nice woman.

He was only honest because he was caught. Is there any proof he went to a counsellor before? Put him on the spot and ask him the name of who he went to. Surely being in a new relationship with someone he loves would be enough to have made him want to seek help again? That he didn't speaks volumes.