Live cam sites. So confused

[BeeHopeful]

Yesterday I asked to use my boyfriend's laptop - we have been together for about 10 months and things have been fantastic. He treats me really well and is very loving. We don't live together but were planning it in the next few months.

He was really cagey about me using his laptop and I just got a feeling. I asked him if there was something on there he didn't want me to see, he insisted there wasn't. It escalated into a bit of a row, I suggested I should go home as I felt he wasn't being honest. I went downstairs and he deleted his browsing history.

When I came back upstairs I was very calm and explained that I needed honesty. He was quiet for about five minutes and was getting visibly upset, saying he'd never told anyone, he was so ashamed, he started crying. After a while he told me that he's had a problem in the past with live cam sites, he spent quite a bit of money and a few years ago went to counselling about it. He stopped using them but began again, to a lesser extent, a couple of years ago. He's been using them while we've been together. I asked him to show me and he grudgingly logged in. It was pretty much what you'd expect, he showed me his inbox and he didn't reply to PMs, he said he would just chat as he used it.

He said that he would talk to them about all sorts, of course I know it was sexual but he wouldn't come out and say that. I tried to stay calm as he was visibly very upset but I explained that to me this is crossing a huge line and I consider it cheating. He seemed genuinely shocked that I saw it that way.

Here's where I'm up to. I'm furious, sad, I never expected him to let me down like this. I also recognise that he told me in the end, he didn't need to as he'd deleted the history (he said he did this in a panic). He tells me he didn't think about what he was doing, it's a habit, he feels like an absolute twat etc. He tells me he is calling the counsellor today to get booked in.

What do I do? I can't talk to anyone about this and I'm so confused. A huge part of me feels like I know he's a good guy, he's been an absolute moron, he sees that, I want to just move on. Another part of me (coming from a history of abuse and real full on cheating) is screaming "run" because my history tells me that bad things always happen. I'm trying not to react to that voice.

I guess I just need some consensus and sense talk around this - right now I'm full of emotion and so so confused. I wanted to live with this man, he's someone I saw a real future with.

In my opinion, it’s only cheating if someone were to focus on one particular cam model. If they’re chatting to someone different each time and not building any emotional connections I don’t see it as being any different than porn tbh.

He's been honest with you about it when he could have lied

He was 'honest' with her when he was backed into a corner.

Original behaviour - secret, because he knew she wouldn't want to stay with him if she found out

Immediate reaction - "I asked him if there was something on there he didn't want me to see, he insisted there wasn't." So another lie.

Reaction when she said she didn't believe that - went and deleted browsing history. So a plan to continue to deceive her

Reaction when she said that made her think she was lying even more - finally an admission, BUT

No accountability - immediately putting himself into a victim role by crying and saying its a compulsion not a choice.

Minimising - "He said that he would talk to them about all sorts, of course I know it was sexual but he wouldn't come out and say that." Refusal to tell whole truth.

Do you think that sequence or events, as explained clearly by the OP, counts as him being 'honest'?

Sorry op, it's very hard when you thought you were in a good relationship with a future.

He's hidden this until now though, he's not who you thought he was. He has "issues". This is the sort of thing that seeing someone for a few years before getting married or getting into commitment is for - to find out these things.

10 months is long enough to get attached, invested etc. and I know it's painful to let if go, but it's also quite a short time,less than a year and you've now discovered this about him. So if you think "but I love him/I'm in love with him" .. just keep in mi d that you did t know about this, so strictly speaking it isn't him you're in love with, it's who you thought he was/a version if him that did not include this behaviour. He deceived you.

(And as someone pointed out, if he genuinely thought you wouldn't have a big problems with this, and it was acceptable within a relationship, why hide it).

I've also always found with things like this that you discover (if possible) that these things cropped up with ex partners;and are a reason those relationships failed. They'll never tell you that of course, there'll always be other reasons, but if you have the opportunity, you'll find out they've always done it, and it has affected (and usually ended) their previous relationships too.

I don’t see it as being any different than porn tbh.

Porn is not interactive.

Live cam sexual interaction is a while different level.

It's also never free, unlike a lot of porn.

*whole

OP, he knew this would upset and hurt you - which is why he didn't tell you about it. He did it anyway.

That is not love. No-one deliberately does things to hurt a person they truly love.

So - is a person who doesn't love (or respect) you, and who you now would be foolish to trust, good enough for you? If your answer is yes, you have even bigger problems than you think.

I had something very similar with my ex. It was a habit, he'd describe it as like the need to get high and then feel disgusting and dirty about it afterwards (I've seen evidence that brain activity is the same as when someone has taken heroin). But then the cycle would start again. And he'd rely on it heavily during times of stress etc. I discovered it quite early in our relationship and he was so desperate to end it so made all the right moves and went to his GP and counselling and I thought it was dealt with. We got married, had children but the compulsion didn't go away, it had been part of his life since he was a teenager. Eventually I had no trust left. The breakdown of marriage and prospect of not seeing his children left him suicidal and I had to call out the mental health crisis team. His friends and family all knew, he couldn't hide that part of him anymore. He ended up in psychosexual counselling and on sex addicts anonymous 12 step programme which will probably be for life. It was all too late for the marriage to be saved and I don't think he would've got to the point of rehabilitation without hitting rock bottom. I also ended up in a lot of counselling. Our lives have gone done completely different paths now although we are managing to co parent successfully so far.

Mumsnet gives the idea of sex addiction pretty short shrift as it gives men an easy excuse to be behave like scumbags. I'm sure for many men that's true but this was my experience and it was traumatic as hell, ending up with childhood revelations that have hurt his family deeply. Either way - if he's doing this because he's a scumbag or because some trauma has led him to this addiction, my advice would be to get out now.

Sorry about this chuffoff and op. I also had similar and it went with lots of other shit behaviour including going on Kik to message randoms, going on Craigslist, not paying towards the family despite working overtime, lying, secretive with phone and cheating. Please move on because this man is emotionally abusive and will think nothing of eroding your happiness if you give him chance

All this sounds awful and so creepy OP. I’d move on. Sometimes you just need to see people as they really are. Don’t be put into some kind of bizarre carer or counsellor role. Leave him to sort that for himself, which (surprise) he hasn’t. Raise your bar. If u don’t find a decent man, look to building a fruitful life alone, much better than this creep show.

Just because others have done worse, does not mean this isnt very bad. Cheating aspect aside, a lot of his money is going on other women. Is that right? I'd leave before you get deeper into this (ex cam girl speaking too)!

I do think it's very different to porn, closer to getting off with someone else or using prostitutes. If it was porn I could be okay about it, if it was in the past and he'd moved on, I could live with it. But to be using live cams during the first year of a loving relationship... no way. He's been living a double life and only fessed up because you found him out. That's not a foundation of trust I could build a long term relationship on. Dealbreaker for me, and I don't say that lightly. Good job you found out now.

He's not 'shocked you see it that way'. He knew full well that you would, otherwise why would he have tried to hide it? He's done everything he can to minimise his guilt- deleted his history, turned on the waterworks, claimed it's an addiction (and therefore beyond his control), and acted as though your reaction was surprisingly disproportionate. He's just trying to minimise the damage of getting caught.

My own feeling is it’s prostitution for cowards- not to be tolerated one bit

So I think a few things so and I am going to share them with you.

1. This behaviour is really complicated...it is an addiction with the physical brain changes that occur. It comes with a compulsion that is only possible to break with abstinence and replacement and ongoing support - I think.
2. Underneath it all is a need for connection and affirmation and acceptance (there is no rejection when you are paying for it).
3. I don't think most men do see how devastating this is to women when its discovered. For me I felt, shocked, cheated on, questions about what is wrong with me (nothing), how coud you? How selfish? How secretive, betrayed...
4. So how did I/do I reconcile the 'seeing it from his pov/and my pov?

• My dh has taken steps to go to counselling, he does have an 'additctive personality - he is already in AA, I do beleive that he is making an effort. BUT I was also prepared to walk away if he hadn't made a move towards making changes. I have realistic hope I think..everythings fragile....

I think at 10 months you have a chance to walk away and it being very sad but possible. You are not financially entwined nor living together and so that does make things simpler.

Or if he does make demonstrable action towards change maybe you will want to stay with him. But then I think you are making a choice in the knowledge that relapse is possible and at what point will you say 'no more'?

hmmm - kinda don't see it as too much different to porn either!

But I guess it depends if you have issues with porn or not - I personally don't have a problem with it / my partner watching it occasionally

so don't think this would bother me that much

And how does he feel about enforced sex work? Does he somehow think that all the women doing this work are freely and willingly choosing to do it? The sex industry has a horrific record for sex slavery and coercion. Even if somehow he "knew" that he was using sites that only use willing volunteers, he's still creating a demand for an industry that enslaves women. Remember those people who died in the back of a lorry? Some of those women could well have been on the way to working on those live camera sites.
That's how he's prepared to treat women - effectively to pay someone to enslave them. Do you want to be in a relationship with someone doing that?

For those who think thay live webcam sites are not too different from porn.... what planet are you on? There's a man watching a real life naked woman on his screen, interacting verbally with her, in real time, asking her to do things that turn him on, overt sexual acts - and all the while he is masturbating.

Seriously? And that's before we get to the expense of it. I have no idea how much, but I gather it is not cheap. There are husbands and fathers who spend significant sums on this perversion, thus depriving their families of significant funds.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/09/worlds-biggest-porn-site-under-fire-over-videos-pornhub

Women and men should have a problem with porn. Abuse and rape and revenge porn have been proven to have been uploaded. Kidnapped and sex trafficked women are filmed. Be kind. Don't normalise porn

If it upset him that much then he'd already be doing something about it before you found out, when he said he got sucked back in to it, not crying when he's been found out.

I read this somewhere - about addiction - and I'll never forget it.

If someone gives up a behaviour 'for you'. 'You' will also be the reason they start it again.

I had a brief relationship with someone who gave up drinking a bottle of wine a night 'for me' - we split up for other reasons but ultimately I knew 5 years down the road - would that promise still stand? - I think not.

It's easy to say these things in a new relationship - but 5/6 years down the road, when everything is settled and comfortable - no.

Leave now before you get further manipulated into believing his lies.

You will never be able to trust him, ever again.

He’s only told you now because you caught him. If you had t caught him..

He is not the man you thought he was.

Dodge this bullet whilst you aren’t living with him / nor have any financial / family ties.

If he's using google chrome, deleting browser history doesn't delete the record of it. You can go on "my activity" and the whole history is there, if you want to find out

*For those who think thay live webcam sites are not too different from porn.... what planet are you on? There's a man watching a real life naked woman on his screen, interacting verbally with her, in real time, asking her to do things that turn him on, overt sexual acts - and all the while he is masturbating.

Seriously? And that's before we get to the expense of it. I have no idea how much, but I gather it is not cheap. There are husbands and fathers who spend significant sums on this perversion, thus depriving their families of significant funds.*

This.

Posters who say "I wouldn't have s problem with this", "it really isn't much different from porn" etc. leave me absolutely bemused, mind boggled and smh in disbelief.

Also I could easily imagine that paying for personal sexual interactions remotely could make paying for personal sexual interactions directly an easier step for some men.

@GilbertMarkham For those who think that live webcam sites are not too different from porn.... what planet are you on? There's a man watching a real life naked woman on his screen, interacting verbally with her, in real time, asking her to do things that turn him on, overt sexual acts - and all the while he is masturbating

I hear what you’re saying but I still don’t think it’s an issue. Wouldn’t phase me in the slightest. If DH were to fixate on one particular cam model and wanted to see her every time or paid her special attention then I would consider a line had be crossed at that point. But jerking off to whoever happens to be on? Wouldn’t bat an eye.