How to be a better DIL

[RubyG3112]

My PIL are coming to stay for a week and the last few visits have been awkward and stressful, for some background, I've had my first baby and MIL is very matriarchal and needs to be seen to be the 'main mum', for eg she took the newborn in to her room to sleep with her (against my will) because she 'could settle him better', she gave him his first bath when I was sleeping (probably sounds really pathetic, but I was gutted) and took him for his first outing, even though I kept saying I would rather keep him at home - her argument was I needed to rest, even though I spent the whole time they were out the house crying and worrying (post natal hormones I guess) she was partly trying to be nice but a lot of it is about being in charge and being in control.

Just recently she's been telling my DH that we need to start feeding the baby, but he's only 3.5 months, I keep saying I want to follow the midwives advice and wait for 6 months but she keeps on and on, and I get the feeling she'll probably just do it if she gets a chance when she visits.

I've come to realise that this is just who she is, she probably finds me just as annoying, and I know she is a good woman, but most importantly, my dh adores her and gets so upset when there is tension between us.

Has anyone got any advice on how I can try and stay calm and polite and not get irritated and snappy when she visits next week? I want to just have a nice time and not let her get under my skin but I'm already feeling anxious about the visit.

My dad keeps reminding me he's caught in the middle, because at the end of the day, she's his mum.

Tell your dad to zip it. Look, @RubyG3112, your MIL is a chance acquaintance who's only in your life because of who you happened to marry. If you'd married someone else you'd have been on Mn snorting with laughter at some other poor woman whose batshit MIL had a first dance with her husband and made his wedding band sound as if he'd married his own mother.

It's nice that your husband loves his mother, but you should be entirely unapologetic that you don't love her, she's just like someone you deal with in another department at work from your point of view. That can be a pleasant or unpleasant working relationship.

I love my parents. I understand their bizarre little ways, their maddening inability to be direct, their insularity, their strange habits etc. I also recognise that they are irritating as all hell to someone who doesn't love them, like my (lovely) DH. It's not my job to inflict them on him like they're some kind of inevitable fact of nature, it's my job to facilitate as functional a relationship as possible between them, and that's definitely not by excusing their behaviour to him, when he has been nothing but sweet to them for years.

He does likewise with his parents -- I'm very fond of his dad, but my MIL is unimaginative, tactless and overbearing, and DH calls her out on it at the point before it gets on my nerves. Because I am very direct indeed when I'm annoyed.

That way everyone rubs along.

I'm slightly worried that you see marriage counselling as getting the backing of a third party for your worries, when in fact, it's enough that you are being driven crazy -- your husband should be listening to you, and taking your concerns seriously.

Basically, his job is to make sure his mother doesn't piss you off. He can bustle about loving her all he likes, but surely he understands that one person's lovely mummy is their spouse's overbearing nutjob?

OMG I thought mine was bad, she’s utterly batshit. This has to be sorted now, your DH has to see this is not in any way shape or form normal, and you won’t be standing for it. Best of luck

I do think I care more how DH reacts and how it would hurt him rather than her though

OP, he's a big boy. Surely he can cope with the idea that his wife doesn't love his mother, or even like her very much? (And why would she, if she's so weirdly intrusive?) I love my parents. DH doesn't. The idea doesn't upset me.

OP - I am a MiL and I absolutely shocked at your MiL's behaviour.

Please cancel her visit......

Really you need to not care about your DH in all of this either. Get him a new wedding ring for your anniversary. It's a symbol of your commitment to each other, not a further apron tie to his mother. Secondly if she starts and DH won't stand up to her start explaining you start as you mean to go on, and although DH has been controlled by her ways for years, your child will not follow the same pattern. You will do what is right for your child and she accepts it or there is the door. You are the mummy and you decide for your child, end of, tough shit.

but most importantly, my dh adores her and gets so upset when there is tension between us.

I've only read your OP.

Dear god. Unless he's prepared to put you first, which most mummies boys aren't, you're fucked, imo.

Mummies boys are dire. I was in an 8 year relationship with one. Ended it, finally, because I couldn't compete with mummy and didn't want to

She is supported completely by her DH though,

This is the answer

This whole situation is the only thing we have real arguments about, even the slightest remark that his mum is in the wrong and we fall out, so we both avoid it and I know it is doing real damage to our marriage just festering away.

You are headed for divorce. You cannot save this because he isn't a husband, he's a spouse to his mother thanks to being brought up with emotional incest. He isn't your husband. Look at that wedding ring if you need any more clarity on that.

You have NOTHING to lose by simply telling him that he needs to choose.

You have the potential to waste many, many years being unhappy here before the - inevitable - final curtain falls.

surely he understands that one person's lovely mummy is their spouse's overbearing nutjob?
He might understand it deep down, but unfortunately, he's been brought up by an overbearing nutjob who had total control over him when he was a child. He has learned that if you resist, you pay for it. It leaves a mark.

@BoudoirPink In my next life I want to be married to your husband or you - that is how it should be :)

Does your DH know that you will end up hugely resenting him (even if it takes years for that to happen) and most probably your relationship will never recover if he continues to indulge his mother at your expense? And your relationship WILL suffer and you WILL resent him.forever if he doesn't stand up for you now. I'd make him aware of that likelihood. Seen it happen to others.

@ravenmum, what a nice thing to say. I will gladly offer you my hand in marriage once we reincarnate.

That is truly horrendous...the only thing I would be doing in preparation for her visit is heading to my families with the baby. Your DH needs to start working with you as a team to fend of his mothers madness or it will destroy your relationship. You also need to be prepared to put your foot down and accept that your DH may get angry and frustrated and start blaming you and you need to remind him that he is married to you not his mum

Look up covert incest. It's not literally incest - its emotional incest. In this case, she appears to have made your H her substitute husband. I'm guessing her own H was largely absent, physically, emotionally or both.

even the slightest remark that his mum is in the wrong and we fall out

You need to take MIL out of the conversation

So instead of ‘your mother is saying/doing x y z

You say ‘I’m not comfortable leaving the baby’ ‘I’d like to give baby solids first so I know how baby reacts’ in think we need to make a decision on X’

That way it’s not an attack

You can also do the parrot thing

So if she says ‘I’ll feed the baby solids’ you repeat with a question ‘you’ll feed the baby solids?’ And leave a big silent gap so she has to justify herself.

This way you’ve made no comment or judgement and she’ll have to answer

The shock of actually hearing what you say back really works - practice on a few people first and see the reaction

I had to work through some of this, and as hard as it was at first, learning to firm up my boundaries has actually improved our relationship over time.

I bought a sling which made it just a bit harder to take the baby off me.

I always referred to her as “grandma”, and to myself as “mama” when speaking to (or through) the baby. I think that helped a lot in establishing firmly who was who.

I’d speak to the baby instead of tackling her head on. For instance, she had form for refusing to give baby back when he was distressed and reaching out for me, so I’d say “Do you want to come back to mama now?” It wasn’t foolproof but it worked fairly well.

I’d say noncommittal things like “thank you for telling me” instead of arguing or disagreeing.

Or I’d cock my head slightly and say “really? Isn’t it funny how much the advice has changed?”

But mostly I learned not to say very much but to do what I wanted to do.

As time has worn on, I’ve dropped the passive aggressive approach, and become more direct which honestly works much better for everyone, but I appreciate it takes time to cross that particular ravine.

With dh, my advice is that you have to be the bigger problem. I didn’t deliberately set out to be, but my mil regularly reduced me to tears and while I’d hold it together, I’d end up crying at home, or in the loo. I genuinely wasn’t trying to manipulate him, and was mostly embarrassed and trying to hide it, but it caused him to actually notice the effect she was having and take a stand.

Thinking back over some of her batshit stunts my mind boggles at it, not just that she’d do those things but that dh couldn’t see it and I put up with it. Nowadays no one doubts that mum is in charge of the dc. And while I’ll never be her favourite person, we’ve reached an amicable place.

Boredoftheboard he knows I'm still not really over things that have happened in the past and how he hasn't supported me, but I don't think he has any idea how often I think about them and how hurt I am by it all. Maybe I will let him know how much of a toll this is all taking on our relationship.

Greentulips I think taking his mum out the conversation is a really good idea, even if I'm not saying anything negative I feel him getting his back up. And the parroting sounds great, I don't know how she could reasonably respond to some of her own mad requests so that could stop her in her tracks (for a few minutes).

Babararara talking through the baby is a perfect way for me to start saying what I want without having to be direct, she holds on to him when he's crying and I want to take him but she ignores my hints and I just stand there feeling horrendous, I could just reach over and say 'I think you want a hug from mummy now' that would be harder to ignore. And I definitely need to get better at just listening to her advice and not commenting anything argumentative or snappy, it would be ideal if I could just listen and smile and ignore it. Thank you so much for your help.

I'm not sure that some of the advice to walk away is really helpful. I mean, it's one option, but it's not the only one and might not be the right one for you at this time. I say this as someone who has difficult in-laws and a husband who thinks that they are perfect. Criticising them at all is very difficult for me to do. The other thing I have to contend with is arguments that come from nowhere and are usually fuelled by a comment she has made. I've got better at spotting these now and usually manage to avoid a full blown row, but not always.

There is good advice here about standing your ground, but for me that makes things worse. All I can really do is try and limit 1:1 time with her, because she takes offence for a past time, and sets me up for a fall. I don't understand why she has such a hold over him, although these days he does actually back me most of the time. Usually we end up with a rough patch because she punishes him for it, and he finds it difficult to go against his parents, but he does, and that means something.

Try not to fight with him about her, do stand up for what you believe is right for you child, but avoid it being about you vs her, because that is very uncomfortable territory for him and he will likely respond badly. Honestly, though, it's quite exhausting, and I would say we are fairly low contact because of it (I don't really communicate with his parents unless i have to, and we see them a few times a year). Ultimately, whatever I do is wrong and I can't win. I'm wrong for going to work and leaving the kids in nursery, I'm wrong for not earning enough (that would be easier to fix if I weren't part time and hadn't already given up loads for the kids), I'm deluded if I think my salary makes any contribution to our lives. I could go on.

Can you talk to the BIL who supports his wife? Maybe he could get across to your DH how he should be dealing with their DM (and backing you)

So your DS is still very young and they have stayed over three times already. May I ask, does your DH take time off when they are here (probably not)?

The problem you have here is your DH. He’d rather upset you, than upset his mother. He’d rather that you DO everything everyone else wants and then gets upset when you have had enough

You do realise that resentment breeds contempt, don’t you? He needs some serious therapy (and a pep talk from his brother), as this is untenable.

In the short term:

Buy a sling and use it when they are there

Ignore the sad faces, when YOUR son is crying (for you) when you take her off him (don’t ask he is your son).

Ignore any attempts to instruct you to feed him (she only wants this so she can take over) and rinse and repeat the guidelines (failing that, roll your eyes and change the subject).

When DH is with you, then tell him to take them out and entertain them ( take DS to visit your family or go for a walk).

Do not change your normal routine (classes/visits) as this will help keep you sane, give you some breathing space and also your MIL cannot use her normal manipulation tactics.

Also, stop explaining yourself. She does not play fair and will use tears/tantrums to get her own way.

Stop explaining and apologising. This is YOUR baby. MIL already had a shot at parenting (and not a good one it seems)
Retrieve your baby when you feel like it.With stern voice if needed.
Sometimes you have to be very direct and blunt even verging on rude.

Now is the time to nip it in the bud and put MIL in her place otherwise fast forward a few years and you’ll have her undermining your parenting decisions, your wimp of a DH not saying anything or siding with his mummy to not upset her and child stuck in the middle.

The solution is down to you, OP, you must be in the driving seat for the sake of your sanity. I know this is not your baseline but the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

Tell DH and MIL that going forward the care of DC will be decided by you and DH, where his input is appropriate. Simple as that.

On of two things are then likely to happen: MIL will therefore blank you - which will be much less bad that you fear because from what you say you can never be friends; or, MIL will appear to back down. A back down will only be temporary and be prepared for her to give DC their first solid food behind your back if you are not prepared.

Haha yeah I got ‘she’s just very excited’ very excited to literally pull the buggy out of my hands and shoot off miles ahead with baby while still healing post c section me struggled to keep up . I had all the refusing to give back when crying (if she absolutely had to she would give DD to her husband to settle ER NO SHE NEEDS HER MUM), walking out of the room with her for ages because eg she was the only person who could wind her (one time she came round and she hadn’t even held DD and announced ‘I can hear wind’ - what, in her voice?), forgetting to introduce me as mum when we bumped into people she knew, etc etc and none of this is remotely anything close to her TAKING YOUR BABY AWAY FROM YOU OVER NIGHT. I can’t even get into the wedding stuff, honestly that is restraining order level batshit, how is your DH not just completely horrified?

I am lucky though, my DP always listened, and got that whether she meant well or whatever the fuck was going on in her head, the fact that it made me uncomfortable/unhappy meant that it wasn’t okay. He talked to her and she has since eased up a bit, I’ve been able to relax more and things are better. Not great but better. And for me all the stress and anxiety and anger and frustration and playing things over and worrying about what will happen next is just over, and I can just focus on our little family and being (hopefully!) a good mum.

I think counselling would be good so you can get some of this out in a safe space as he’s not allowing you to (making you feel bad over slightest criticism of frankly insane MIL). You could maybe bring up the healthier BIL/SIL dynamic there and see if like PP have suggested, he would be up for chatting to BIL or modelling his behaviour a bit more. I also like PPs suggestion of a new ring and a vow renewal somewhere far away. In fact I quite fancy that as a wedding option for myself

Re nodding and smiling, I couldn’t quite manage the unbotheredness that required to be really effective so I just try to speak up at the time if she’s overstepping the mark /being bossy eg ‘oh she’s not really there yet’ (weaning at 4 months), ‘oh that’s not really anything to worry about for a while’ (wanting DD to call GP ‘Pappy’) ‘oh that’s not really our thing’ (insistence on getting a cast of her foot as an ornament) and I usually feel better for making a small stand. But ultimately what really made a difference was realising it doesn’t matter what she says/thinks/does, DD is MY CHILD and I don’t have to do ANYTHING that makes me uncomfortable. So my DP knows that for now, there won’t be any family holidays, they won’t be baby sitting, there won’t be overnight stays. We see them roughly once a fortnight, sometimes more regularly eg around Christmas but then it’s back to once a fortnight. Having these boundaries has allowed things to relax and me get to a much healthier place and relationship (or series of interactions ) with MIL.