DH's addict, abusive (but clean) Brother moving in....

[LoveFood]

Have name changed because this is outing to anyone who knows me in real life.

Dh's brother is an addict. After 8 years of not using, he started again a few years ago, escalating over time, and with him mostly denying it, accusing family members and others of all kinds of crazy things etc etc. Eventually, when every last person stopped helping him and giving him money he went into rehab. He's been out for about 6 months. He's working, but resents it as he doesn't like his boss and it's not the kind of highly professional job he had before (he can never do that again as he's lost his license). However it is a decently paid, office job with a fair amount of responsibility. He got it through a friend.

He's now considering moving to where we live and wants to stay with us and other family members. he claims he'll take any job that comes up eg packing shelves etc.

My issue is that not only do I not believe him, and believe he's a user who will bleed us all dry, there are two specific things I can't get past and I don't know if I'm being unsympathetic to a man who has a disease:

1. When he was using and in denial, his son was living with him. Obviously his son knew what was going on and was trying to talk to people. Brother did his best to convince (often successfully) the family that son was crazy, delusional etc. He also physically attacked/abused him - we know this because he admitted it as he was so delusional himself at the time that he justified it as being "the only way to prevent DS from doing something stupid - if I choke him until he passes out he won't get out onto the streets."

1. Since he's come out of rehab, he's never acknowledged how bad his behaviour was to anyone or made any real effort to form new relationships. He's told his son that he "needs to get over it" and acts towards Dh, his parents and siblings as if everything is fine and normal. He's faintly mocking if anyone makes any sort of allusion to it - in a sort of , " oh come on, it's all over now" kind of way. this goes for the emotional trauma he put everyone through but also the financial and practical. He's never, as far as I'm aware, apologised for the way he basically financially destroyed their parents or made any effort to make repatriations.

So my question is, how do I handle this? Should I (we?) be cutting him some slack as a man trying to sort his life out. Or am I justified in being very concerned about letting him move here, potentially living with us and/or SIL?

This is your route to resetting things. Start being very very vocal that loyalty is to the nephew who has done nothing wrong and who is a victim. Be openly angry that BIL is not remotely remorseful.

Yes, this. I've been open about what i think but I think I've always tried to be "light" about it so as not to create arguments. So I'd be shocked if anyone in DH's family is unaware that I think nephew is the one we should be thinking about it, but you're right that I haven't done anything to express public anger etc. Too busy trying to prevent any tension and arguments. God, just when I think I've beaten all those natural instincts girls are brought up with to avoid conflict, smooth over stuff etc, I find another way I'm still doing it.

I'd love to just put my foot down, as would DH, but the issues are complex

Whatever the complexities, I doubt they could be worse than the outcome of having him to live with you. Call me dense, but I'm genuinely not understanding why you have to have "500 conversations" with the family ... or "make your case" ... or avoid tension with everyone ... or anything else

To put it simply, what's the worst that could happen if you simply say no and refuse to be drawn further?

It's good that the nephew has enough strength of character and self preservation instincts to shun his father, he's the one who should be the focus of support, urging him to have an abuser in his life is just another way of abusing this poor lad, this lad is an innocent victim and the family are colluding to further victimize him, he deserves help and support.
I wonder if the BIL is being honest about the urgency of him getting into the UK, even if only spinning it a bit to make you feel obligated or give the feeling that there is a crisis and rush you into things?

He's not spinning it, no. It's definitely a Brexit related issue.

To put it simply, what's the worst that could happen if you simply say no and refuse to be drawn further?

Very good question. I guess it's family tensions, DH being on the receiving end of a lot of pressure etc. But as many have pointed out, that's not really my problem.

He's running away from his old life rather than running to a new life.

Oh, he's doing a geographic. Not the action of someone who's got clean and is working the program, but rather of someone who's looking for someone/something other than himself to pin the blame on.

He's still in the addict mindset. If he came to live with you, you'd be forever looking for evidence that he'd slipped again. It's up to his family if they're prepared to enable him but you and your DH don't have to and shouldn't subject your children to it.

Absolutely no way whatsoever. Even without all the issues he's an adult who should be sorting his own accommodation out (I'd also be wary of him saying it will be for a short time whilst he get something else)

I guess (the worst that could happen) is family tensions, DH being on the receiving end of a lot of pressure etc

But why him particularly? What's to stop anyone who might pressure your DH from taking BIL in themselves if they're SO bothered about him?

You said BIL has EU residency, but is he from the EU in the first place? Or is this a case of fishing for somewhere to take him before Brexit makes it more complicated?

As you suggested yourself it really shouldn't be your problem anyway; perhaps the best course would be to stiffen DH's spine and deliver a firm, joint "no" ... and to hell with what the rest think

Defo not. It’s a firm no.

He needs to stand on his own feet and it seems that him moving in would create tension in your own home. You’d be forever thinking he’s nicked off you and is back on the drugs.

Just to add my voice to this - you must be joking! He would not be living with me and my children.

And while you're noticing conditioned 'nice girl' thinking, you say that he won't be living with you and your DH 'if you can avoid it' - of course you can avoid it, it's your blinking house! The answer is 'no' and that's the end of it.

As for all this business of giving him 'firm deadlines' etc. were he to move in - you know that that means nothing once he's got his feet under the table if he decides he'd rather not go anywhere so don't kid yourself you'd be being strong by letting him in under 'conditions'!

Wishing you strength to stand up for yourself, you children and your nephew. Good luck!

If your BIL only had an addiction problem, second chances would be simpler once he was properly in recovery but the fact that he refuses to take proper responsibility for all the harm he caused and properly attempt to make amends is a bad sign and does not suggest he is properly in recovery. Separately, he is also an abuser. That is not part of his drug addiction. It is unusual for drug addicts to physically attack other people unless in a drug-fuelled delirium they think the other person is a threat to them. Your BIL did not throttle his son to keep him safe, he did it to harm his son. It seems to me that no-one is taking his attack on his son seriously enough. It was a crime and he should have gone to prison for it. Abusers tend to be charming and persuasive - it’s part of the abuser MO and allows them to continue to operate abusively in the shadows - it makes it much harder for their victims ie spouse and/or children to get the support and protection they need and escape the abuse because other people accept the abuser’s account of the situation. My understanding is that in domestic violence situations (which is what this was), throttling has been proven statistically to be a precursor to murder and is taken particularly seriously. You have said that, having nearly killed his son (throttling him till he passed out constitutes nearly killing him), your BIL then continued the abuse by making out his son was exaggerating and manipulating family members against his son. Given that his son won’t have anything to do with his father it’s fair to assume that the attack was as dangerous as it sounds and has not been exaggerated. It’s not up to you and your DH to fix his brother’s life. Your DH’s family might be unhappy with you but this has to be a hard no. If you didn’t have children the situation may be different (I don’t think so, though) but you do. Your BIL needs to experience consequences - this is a consequence.

PS I mean no-one in your DH’s family is taking the attack seriously enough.

DH and I agreed a long time ago that no unsupervised contact with the DC

How will this work if he's staying with family? What if he moves in with MIL/FIL? Do your children currently go visit their grandparents without you? How are you actually going to enforce that statement?
I'd be saying no contact. Supervised? Supervised by who? He's a highly abusive man who throttled his OWN child til he was nearly dead. There is no way on earth he'd be anywhere near my children.

And while I do not condone his behaviour for one second, as long as he's clean I don't believe he'd physically abuse anyone. But the issue is that the personality type is still the personality type.

You sound quite naive. I think the abuse IS his personality. However, he also denied to everyone that he was using when he clearly was. What if he was staying with you and relapsed. What is you were throttled in front of your children for catching or accusing him of using? Or denying him money for a fix?

Plus how do we know he'll stay clean? when he started using again, everyone knew but he swore blind and twice on Sundays he wasn't and turned it into huge fights with the family if they dared to bring it up.
He won't stay clean. He was clean 8 years and chose to restart. He sounds like he didn't get clean through his own rock bottom / choice and isn't taking personal responsibility for his own choices so he'll relapse again. What if one of your kids catch him using and he threatened them into keeping quiet? What if they found his drugs and ingested some?

trust me, I know that I sound like I'm trying to minimise his behaviour. I'm not
Yes you are. You make it sound like you and DH have no personal autonomy in the face of his family. Are they all abusers?

And I don't want him in my house and neither DH nor I plan to let him move in if we can avoid it.
You can avoid it. Its your house. You say no. End of. No. No. He isn't moving in. No he isn't staying a few days. No.

And if he does, we are giving him a very clear deadline and rules etc. But trying to balance what ew want and need with the broader issue is complex. And I'd love to just put my foot down, as would DH, but the issues are complex.

How on earth do you think you'll enforce boundaries with him IN your house when you can't enforce the boundaries that you actually don't want him there, don't trust him, don't like him and don't want him anywhere near your kids.
There is no broader issue that is your issue. Your house. Not anyone else's. Your rules. Your decision.

My aunt came to stay when I was about 6-7, recently clean. Running from her old life. My DMum and DDad gave her a place to stay to help. I overheard many conversations when they thought I was asleep. To me she was young and glamorous, dressing and acting very differently to mum. I ended up in my child brain, looking up to her and wanting to be like her and very nearly going down a similar path when older. Seriously. Do. Not. Do. This. To. Your. Children.

You HAVE to protect them. No one else can. You need to find your backbone and anger. Why are you pussyfooting around his family. Again I suggest perhaps the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.

And I don't want him in my house and neither DH nor I plan to let him move in if we can avoid it. And if he does, we are giving him a very clear deadline and rules etc. But trying to balance what ew want and need with the broader issue is complex. And I'd love to just put my foot down, as would DH, but the issues are complex.

They're not complex and you're being very passive about it.

You have to put your DC first and if it causes a rift then so be it. You CAN avoid it if you choose to.

Here's a little trick I play on myself when I will be faced with having to be angry about something like your nephew situation when everyone else is trying to ignore it...

Imagine there is a secret camera recording the conversation. Imagine that the nephew goes on TV as part of a documentary about living with a violent addict. They play the secret recording of his family talking. What would you want the audience to see you saying and doing? Act like that. That's the real you. The you who is currently smothered by the skirts of female socialisation. Who are you when the chips are down?

Update. Turns out that Dh had also been thinking about this all day yesterday after our chat first thing in the morning that led to this post in the first place. In addition, he received a message from BIL asking permission to send a specific video to DS. Progress you'd think, right? He's being considerate of what we consider appropriate/inappropriate for our children.....

.... except, his ONLY reason for asking is because in the video he's doing martial arts with a weapon and he wasn't sure how we'd feel about the weapon. But the video is one taken a few months before he went into rehab. In it he's so clearly completely and utterly off his face. He's controlling the weapon quite well but his movements are manic, out of control and totally bizarre. It was just another example of not only the refusal to take responsibility or make amends I mentioned originally, but he's clearly still in complete denial to think that the video is in any way a positive example of his skills. It's like me showing DS a video of me absolutely smashed at my 21st birthday because I want him to see me dancing!?

Anyway, it turns out we both feel completely the same. It's a hard no for us. He's not staying in our house and we're making that clear. DH has also sent him a message telling him how inappropriate the video is and a few other things that he's not said so far because of all the above mentioned issues around trying to keep the peace etc, including that he needs to earn our trust back. It's not an aggressive message at all, but it's absolutely 100% clear that he thinks BIL's behaviour and expectations are completely unacceptable and he won't be putting up with it.

To the person asking re unsupervised contact vs supervised contact - that's actually not tricky at all, so we're not worried about it. if SIL chooses to allow him contact with her son without supervision, we'll make sure that our DC aren't ever with them in that situation, but it's unlikely to ever come up anyway.

I said upthread that I am fairly certain he was exaggerating about the choking thing because in his deluded mind at the time he thought that was more impressive. whatever the truth of that situation, I do believe there was actual physical abuse. DNephew never talks about it and I haven't wanted to pry and nephew hasn't really wanted to discuss stuff, but it occurs to me that I need to make it clear to him that he CAN talk to me if he wants to and that I'll support him in how he deals with it longer term.

Thanks again. This all helped me to clarify my thinking. I had definitely lost sight of the wood for the trees.

Good for you.

great outcome

Thank goodness you were on the same page!

If he thinks he has improved he needs to deal with things on his own not be propped up by all and sundry.

He is an addict. There's a big difference between "not using" and "in recovery from addiction". One is a person who isn't using anymore (good on him for that) but the other involves a constant active process of character and life change for the rest of their life, including taking responsibility for and making amends for any past wrong doings.

He is an abuser. In order to change (if he is even able to) he would need to admit he was abusive and do intensive work on changing his core beliefs surrounding using, abusing, gaslighting and manipulating others and be in a constant active process of challenging and changing these thoughts, beliefs and behaviours for the rest of his life. Some of these may be "fundamental core beliefs" and therefore he may never be able to change them completely so would also be trying to control his behaviours and suppress his true self in order to no longer abuse or hurt others.

In my life I have met many many addicts and many many abusers. I have met only a handful of addicts who are both not using and doing the active work necessary to make sure they do not use again (to borrow an AA term not just "dry drunks") and I am yet to meet an abuser who has actually Changed their ways (that's not to say it never happens, but you are looking for the unicorns not the horses right there).

Big fat no from me

Well that's a big relief for you. I'm glad you and your DH are on the same page so you can stand together and support each other in your decision.