DH's addict, abusive (but clean) Brother moving in....

[LoveFood]

Have name changed because this is outing to anyone who knows me in real life.

Dh's brother is an addict. After 8 years of not using, he started again a few years ago, escalating over time, and with him mostly denying it, accusing family members and others of all kinds of crazy things etc etc. Eventually, when every last person stopped helping him and giving him money he went into rehab. He's been out for about 6 months. He's working, but resents it as he doesn't like his boss and it's not the kind of highly professional job he had before (he can never do that again as he's lost his license). However it is a decently paid, office job with a fair amount of responsibility. He got it through a friend.

He's now considering moving to where we live and wants to stay with us and other family members. he claims he'll take any job that comes up eg packing shelves etc.

My issue is that not only do I not believe him, and believe he's a user who will bleed us all dry, there are two specific things I can't get past and I don't know if I'm being unsympathetic to a man who has a disease:

1. When he was using and in denial, his son was living with him. Obviously his son knew what was going on and was trying to talk to people. Brother did his best to convince (often successfully) the family that son was crazy, delusional etc. He also physically attacked/abused him - we know this because he admitted it as he was so delusional himself at the time that he justified it as being "the only way to prevent DS from doing something stupid - if I choke him until he passes out he won't get out onto the streets."

1. Since he's come out of rehab, he's never acknowledged how bad his behaviour was to anyone or made any real effort to form new relationships. He's told his son that he "needs to get over it" and acts towards Dh, his parents and siblings as if everything is fine and normal. He's faintly mocking if anyone makes any sort of allusion to it - in a sort of , " oh come on, it's all over now" kind of way. this goes for the emotional trauma he put everyone through but also the financial and practical. He's never, as far as I'm aware, apologised for the way he basically financially destroyed their parents or made any effort to make repatriations.

So my question is, how do I handle this? Should I (we?) be cutting him some slack as a man trying to sort his life out. Or am I justified in being very concerned about letting him move here, potentially living with us and/or SIL?

No way in hell would he be moving in with me and I'd also be supporting his son in saying no when he starts bring guilted into saying yes

Absolutely. no. Way. In. Hell.

I think while his past behaviour would always be hard to forgive, it would be a different thing if he were remorseful and taking responsibility for his past actions. He’s a relapse waiting to happen. No, no, no.

I’m also the sibling of a former addict. It’s hard, but very, very firm boundaries are essential. No, you’re not giving him a place to stay/money/etc. He’s a fully grown man and he needs to learn to manage, practically, in his own. Anything else is not only not helping him, it’s enabling him. I’m sorry you’re in this situation, I know how it feels to be seen as the hard-hearted one because you won’t bend over backwards to help someone who isn’t helping themselves.

Just say no. Sounds like he's looking for somewhere to stay and sponge off. With this attitude he won't stay clean for long.

Also, part of rehab is taking responsibility and making amends. Until he's done this, he hasn't changed.

Big fuck you to your DH entire family for gaslighting the nephew to 'get over' his abuse. I hope your DH is not one of them.

This would not be happening.

I would move out and file for divorce/sale of property if no kids before this would happen to me ... and file for divorce and an occupation order (and child arrangements order) if there were children. IMO the courts would grant the orders if required to prevent the children living with an addict. Visitiation would need to be limited under those circumstances.

Thanks all. We do have DC and in fact I had a horrible dream last night that I think really coalesced everything in my head. The good news is that Dh doesn't want him staying with us either so we are on the same page. It's just tricky because of the family dynamics. DH is trying to work out how to put in place the boundaries he wants to, but that is, understandably, fraught.

As for the work thing, it's complicated. He'd be coming from another country pre Brexit. He doesn't think he can stay where he is for various reasons but that's part of my concern. He's running away from his old life rather than running to a new life. But there he has friends who can get him cushy jobs. Here he doesn't. And I think he's living in a dream world if he thinks he'll be fine. Its the classic - come to the land of milk and honey attitude.

Brother did his best to convince (often successfully) the family that son was crazy, delusional etc. He also physically attacked/abused him - we know this because he admitted it as he was so delusional himself at the time that he justified it as being "the only way to prevent DS from doing something stupid - if I choke him until he passes out he won't get out onto the streets

He abused, gaslit and isolated his own son, choking him until he passed out and the family reaction was to just get over it and put pressure on this poor kid to have a relationship with his dad?

Do you have DC OP, would you be happy to have this man around your DC? Are you willing to not have your extended family children visit your home, no nieces, nephews or DC of your friends in your home for their own safety? Think long and hard about the impact this man will have on your family life, your friendships, your marriage. Ask yourself if this unrepentant man is really worth it.

Thank goodness your dh doesn't want him staying there either. The brother's attitude hasn't changed at all.

would you be happy to have this man around your DC?

DH and I agreed a long time ago that no unsupervised contact with the DC. And while I do not condone his behaviour for one second, as long as he's clean I don't believe he'd physically abuse anyone. But the issue is that the personality type is still the personality type. Plus how do we know he'll stay clean? when he started using again, everyone knew but he swore blind and twice on Sundays he wasn't and turned it into huge fights with the family if they dared to bring it up.

trust me, I know that I sound like I'm trying to minimise his behaviour. I'm not. And I don't want him in my house and neither DH nor I plan to let him move in if we can avoid it. And if he does, we are giving him a very clear deadline and rules etc. But trying to balance what ew want and need with the broader issue is complex. And I'd love to just put my foot down, as would DH, but the issues are complex.

I'm mostly just really glad that people don't think I'm being unreasonable for thinking this is dangerous. I had been doubting myself. As had DH.

I was very much in the No camp. I'm all for helping people but this isn't going to help you or your DH

Then you mentioned your own children.

It's a categorical NO!

Their safety can't be garanteed

You are right it is difficult, but your final post suggests you might let him come to stay. What? Why?

No issues are complex enough to put your children at risk, you describe him as an abuser, he is.

Put your children's needs above those of your BIL and the rest of your family.
You won't regret keeping them safe.
I speak from experience.
Neither you nor your husband are unreasonable to say no.
You know this. Take care of yourself and your babies.

I don't want him in my house and neither DH nor I plan to let him move in if we can avoid it

If you can avoid it? Why couldn't you avoid it? It is your and DH family home if both of you are saying "no" to this who is over riding that decision that you are helpless against?

DH and I agreed a long time ago that no unsupervised contact with the DC

Are you really convinced that is enough to keep the DC safe, do you think that stops him from having drugs on him and your DC won't be exposed to those drugs, that nothing will fall out of his pockets and end up in small, curious hands? I think you are under reacting to this so as to not ruffle the feathers of overbearing in-laws.

Children’s Services would be telling you a big fat no here. You are on extremely dangerous ground. Do not let this man live with you and your children under any circumstances.

Well maybe you will have to be the bad guy OP. That gives dh the excuse for his family that LoveFood thinks he's not safe around dc, just won't have it and says she will divorce me first.

Children’s Services would be telling you a big fat no here

This is really interesting. Can you please clarify? I know nothing about addicts beyond what I've learnt during this process. is someone who is 6 months clean still considered "officially" very high risk? Are there guidelines or websites anyone can point me to as to what an addict at the stage of recovery might be expected to do/ achieve etc? I've searched but got nowhere. I did actually consider seeing if I could find a friends-and-family-NA-style group to attend just to get more information.

Although to be fair, he's 6 months out of rehab but really closer to 18 months clean.

There is absolutely no way in a month of Sundays I would have my sibling living with my DC, it wouldn't matter if they were 10 years clean. It's not worth the risk of a relapse.

The question you have to ask yourself is who comes first, your children or your BIL? You can look up all the guidelines in the world but ultimately, who comes first?

I'd say you'd loose your children as soon as someone joined the dots. Out of interest where's his son. In this other country? Really Op you need to wise up. You are coming across as shocking naive.

What's this other country. Because it's probably easier to stop him ever setting foot in the UK then dealing with this shit storm once he's here. However I don't understand your pre-Brexit comment.

Do you have any concept of how unlikely it is that he strangled his son to stop him going out. The difference between death and unconsciousness is about 2 mins depending on age, strength etc. So if he'd succeeded in strangling his son to death how would this conversation be going?

Strangling someone is such a massive market of abuse likely to end in a death outcome.

Apologies that this is so harsh but your DH and family have their heads a fair way up their arses.

Absolutely not, he doesn’t need a place to go, there’s no jeopardy here, no reason to let him live with you. If he wants to move area he can save up and sort out a place in the new location like the rest of us do.

It’s the lack of remorse that really does it, you can’t let someone who doesn’t think his behaviour was that bad, to come live with you, it could destroy your marriage.

I wouldn't let him get his foot in the door, never mind feet under the table

No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

The man is an arsehole. Not because he’s had addiction problems; he’d be an arsehole even if he’d never been an addict and the fact he’s clean now doesn’t make him a decent human being.

Do NOT give him house room. It’ll end in tears.

I'd be quite willing to be the bad guy here. Especially since DH really doesn't want him there either.

I'd be saying that it might be the done thing in your family that family can just come crash anytime, but that's not the way it's done in my family. And it takes two yes's to make a yes, and one no, to make a no. So that's not happening.

Our home is our haven, most particularly our children's. I will not have anyone I cannot trust living in it, and there's no way in hell I'd trust this arsehole as far as I could throw him.

He needs to realise that his past will never be forgotten. And certainly not when he's never expressed any remorse for the way he has made his family and friends suffer, or sought to make any reparation.

You speak as if this man has some right to stay with you unless you can think of a good reason for him not to, however you don't need to give a reason you just say no.
You shouldn't need to build boundaries you should already have a boundary around your home, only people that you trust and feel comfortable with are allowed to stay there, you don't have to explain or justify, it's your sanctuary, your safe place, if you don't feel like it he doesn't get to stay.

Bollocks is he clean.

And even if he is, he's a bad person.

It would be a matter of time - just long enough to find the local dealers - before he's using again and making out that you're mental instead.

DP is the most soft, caring person I've ever met. But he's almost completely cut off his best friend because he's started using again. Because, as he told me when he was saying it (from experience of a houseshare) that 'addicts will be your best friend to your face, make you feel sorry for them, break your heart with the awful things they tell you happened to them and people have done to them - and they will lie to you, steal from you, use and manipulate you and, when you eventually say 'No', they will quite happily stab you, literally and figuratively to get their fix'.

To pinch an anti drugs slogan from the 1980s, Just Say No.

Thank you all. You're really helping. The 500 conversations with DH's family had me questioning my concerns. this is really driving home for me that I'm not wrong for thinking this isn't good. It's also given me more concrete things I can use to make my case. And, perhaps more importantly, for DH to make his case when he's saying no! I don't mind being the bad guy at all, that's not the issue at all. But I was starting to question my own reactions.

Do you have any concept of how unlikely it is that he strangled his son to stop him going out. The difference between death and unconsciousness is about 2 mins depending on age, strength etc. So if he'd succeeded in strangling his son to death how would this conversation be going?

To be honest, I've always he's assumed he was exaggerating when he said this. Not least because he really was so clueless at the time that he had no idea that the behaviour wasn't okay. But I do take your point.

It’s the lack of remorse that really does it, you can’t let someone who doesn’t think his behaviour was that bad, to come live with you, it could destroy your marriage.

THIS. this has always bothered me but due to completely unrelated experiences to do with illness and death in my own family, I was starting to wonder if this whole "responsibility and amends" thing was just something you see on tV and doesn't really happen in real life.