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Original poster

Is this consent?

55 replies

Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 15:49

If you tell someone repeatedly that you are not sure you want to sleep with them could that be considered you consenting to have sex with them?

I have confronted someone over something that happened a few weeks ago and he is really messing with my head and now I'm doubting myself.

He keeps telling me how horrible it feels for him to hear this and that I'm making out like he raped me when he never held me down or forced me. He said nothing happened without my consent but I feel differently. I know I should have been clearer and said a firm no and I have admitted that to him. But I think it was his responsibility to check I wanted to sleep with him as he initiated. I had already told him to stop as he had taken things too far. I was happy to kiss him but was not expecting him to suddenly shove his hand in my knickers and start doing things to me. I pushed him away and told him to stop but he soon started kissing me again and grabbed my hand and shoved it in his pants and told me to touch him. I pulled away once he let go. He then started undressing me and I told him I couldn't sleep with him that night. He got a condom anyway. Stupidly I said nothing in the 15/20 seconds it took him to get it on. But as soon as he came towards me lying me back on the sofa I started saying over and over 'I'm not sure' but he did it anyway. I asked him to stop fairly quickly, which he did. I was visibly upset. I left the room to do something and when I came back he hugged me and started kissing me again. This next bit is entirely on me. I ended up sitting straddling his lap. He flipped me over so I was lying on the sofa and he was I top of me. He went and got another condom and I just lay there silent. I thought that he had already done it once so what was the point I saying anything, so it happened again for longer this time. It was not nice. I couldn't breathe. I said nothing for as long as I could before asking him to stop again.

Please can someone help me understand what happened the first time? I know the second time I said nothing so that's on me but I'm very confused about everything that happened before.

Thank you and I'm sorry this is so long

OP posts:
LittleSunnyflower · 12/02/2020 15:54

Consent is explicit, and never implied. I am so sorry but if what you are asking is, do you have the right to feel violated, you absolutely do, and I am so sorry this has happened to you. This should NEVER HAPPEN to anyone.

pog100 · 12/02/2020 15:56

At no point did you offer consent, let alone enthusiastic consent, so to me it's clear. What the fuck did he think you meant??
I'm sorry.

Apileofballyhoo · 12/02/2020 16:05

That's not consent.

loserssaywhat · 12/02/2020 16:09

This sounds horrible. No you did not give explicit consent, you asked him to stop touching you, he carried on. In my opinion that is sexual assault.

Interestedwoman · 12/02/2020 16:34

You were raped. Angry How do you feel about what happened?

'I had already told him to stop as he had taken things too far'

You had explicitly told him you didn't want it etc. The other bit is called the Freeze response, it happens to a lot of women who are raped, as you were. It's not 'all on you,' it's the body/mind's response to danger. www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/i-just-froze/

Ullupullu · 12/02/2020 16:37

You did not consent on any occasion you described. You don't have to see him again. Please don't.

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 17:09

I'm feeling really confused to be honest. He has been quite nasty in our conversation saying things like 'I'm sorry i turned you on' and that I just regretted it and that he was another victim of mine (he knows I was raped before).

I really thought that he would stop and check when I kept telling him that I wasnt sure. I had actually wanted him to stop before it got to that point. I dont know why I didnt say a clear no. It was all I could think of to say for some reason

OP posts:
LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 12/02/2020 17:15

You didn't enthusiastically consent. What he did was rape.

Unfortunately, we hear all the time that 'no means yes' and 'if you didn't fight him off then it's your fault' - we give out loads and loads of horrible messages around consent. That's rape culture in a nutshell. He knows this, he's steeped in them. So he's now using rape culture against you. He's an absolute horror show and the comment about being 'another victim of yours' is beyond the pale.

You need some help and support lass. Women's Aid or Rape Crisis. Please keep all his messages. I want to tell you to report him, but it's completely up to you if you do - but keep his messages just in case you feel strong enough to report him at some point.

You should also look up the flight response, which is what happened to you - we don't just flee or fight, we also freeze.

RhymingRabbit3 · 12/02/2020 17:17

If you have to question whether you consented, you didnt. He sexually assaulted you and that it not your fault, even if you said nothing you had previously say "no" or "not sure". You need to block his number and not contact him again.

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 17:24

I can't help feeling that it was my fault though. Maybe if I had said a hard no he might have stopped. Part of me wonders if the reason that 'no' didn't come out my mouth was because if he carried on it would obviously be rape. If I said no on a less direct way I could convince myself otherwise

OP posts:
FranklySonImTheGaffer · 12/02/2020 19:23

Let me simplify this for you OP. Anything other than an enthusiastic 'yes, I want to have sex with you' is not consent.
Asking him to stop, saying you weren't sure, pushing him away all show you didn't want this.

Consent used to be framed as 'no means no' and anything else was a grey area BUT we now know that freezing (as you did) is a normal response to trauma and because of this, consent now is framed around 'yes means yes.'

What has happened is that he assaulted you and he knows it. He doesn't want to get into any trouble so he is telling you that you wanted this, hoping he can twist your thoughts and feelings so you end up feeling bad. If that works, he gets away with it.

You don't have to do anything else if you don't want to but I would suggest you call rape crisis. They're anonymous and are trained to help you handle the way you're feeling.

I'm very sorry this happened to you OP 💐

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 19:29

Thank you everyone. I'm so upset by the awful things he is saying to me but I cant step away from the conversation. He is making me more and more desperate for him to back down. He is making me feel like I'm crazy and imagined everything

OP posts:
Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 20:02

And I'm really struggling to accept that he raped me. I don't want it to have happened again 😪

OP posts:
SinkGirl · 12/02/2020 21:25

You haven’t imagined it. The things he is saying are despicable and prove exactly what sort of person he is. He knows precisely what he has done and is trying to rationalise it.

Screenshot the texts and then block his number, so you don’t have to endure any more abuse from him.

I’m so sorry Flowers

Honeybee85 · 12/02/2020 21:29

This was not consent. What he did was very wrong and I’m very sorry for you that it happened.
You didn’t deserve this, it’s not your fault, HE WAS WRONG IN THIS SITUATION. Don’t doubt about that. Flowers

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 22:25

Thank you. I have now blocked him. His comments were getting even worse. I'm still struggling to make sense of it all and to not blame myself and feel like I'm accusing him of something he didn't do.

OP posts:
Heartburn888 · 12/02/2020 22:53

He should have stopped the first time you said no and taken it no further than kissing as this is what you said you was comfortable doing.

Personally, if I was him I wouldn’t go any further with a partner if they said they wasn’t sure. To me it’s a polite way of saying no and you felt like you couldn’t say no to him So said not sure. It’s not a yes it’s uncertainty and he should of listened to you when you did not say yes to sexual acts.

I’m so sorry this happened to you. Have you considered reporting him? He’s trying to turn things round but the reality is yes he did rape you.

Well done to you for confronting him though he will try make you think you are bonkers by trying to tel you a different version of events but you was there and you know what happened and you know it wasn’t right.

I really hope your okay and I would consider confiding in someone in RL, a sister or your mum maybe?

Sending lots of hugs Flowers

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 23:08

Thank you. Yes he has made me feel like I'm out of my mind and been using my past against me. If I could report him I would but unfortunately that's not an option. Nothing seems to happen when you report rape anyway so would feel a bit pointless and like he was being proved right, if that makes sense.

OP posts:
DressesWithPocketsRockMyWorld · 12/02/2020 23:13

I am so sorry this horrible man raped you.

I think you are right when you say that you didnt say no clearly because then it would definitely be rape. But it was rape - you didnt consent and he did it anyway.

Please take care of yourself. There are support services out there. Xx

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 12/02/2020 23:14

Sweetheart, he is not going to message you and say 'know what, you're totally right, I did rape you.'

Block him. (Though don't delete anything he's told you.) Block him and block your ears to his horrible words too. He's a fucker.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 12/02/2020 23:17

It's totally OK not to report too. I wish things were different and that you'd automatically get the right result from reporting, but that doesn't happen. It's OK. You're OK. You're going to be OK. Keep posting. Someone here will always be listening.

Quartz2208 · 12/02/2020 23:24

Op please don’t blame yourself I think your self preservation kicked in because you knew he was going to no matter what

His comment that he was one of your victims like the previous time is awful. This man has a warped idea of consent and sex

Do you still have to see him

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 23:29

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett you are right, he was never going to admit it. But I didn't expect everything he said to make it worse

Quartz2208 fortunately I don't have to see him. I have also told him never to contact me again unless it's to apologise. But feeling slightly nervous now as be knows where I live and the argument got fairly intense

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 12/02/2020 23:31

If he comes to your house then definitely call the police that is aggressive and harassment

It’s not your fault you did what you had to to stop it getting violent and you getting hurt. His response and the fact you are physically scared of him now backs that up

Pollaidh · 12/02/2020 23:35

I've just been reading the book for kids "Respect: Consent and Boundaries", there's even a picture that says that if someone says they're not sure, that is not consent, and should be taken as a no. So even my 6 year old DS knows that "not sure" is not consent.