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Original poster

Is this consent?

55 replies

Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 15:49

If you tell someone repeatedly that you are not sure you want to sleep with them could that be considered you consenting to have sex with them?

I have confronted someone over something that happened a few weeks ago and he is really messing with my head and now I'm doubting myself.

He keeps telling me how horrible it feels for him to hear this and that I'm making out like he raped me when he never held me down or forced me. He said nothing happened without my consent but I feel differently. I know I should have been clearer and said a firm no and I have admitted that to him. But I think it was his responsibility to check I wanted to sleep with him as he initiated. I had already told him to stop as he had taken things too far. I was happy to kiss him but was not expecting him to suddenly shove his hand in my knickers and start doing things to me. I pushed him away and told him to stop but he soon started kissing me again and grabbed my hand and shoved it in his pants and told me to touch him. I pulled away once he let go. He then started undressing me and I told him I couldn't sleep with him that night. He got a condom anyway. Stupidly I said nothing in the 15/20 seconds it took him to get it on. But as soon as he came towards me lying me back on the sofa I started saying over and over 'I'm not sure' but he did it anyway. I asked him to stop fairly quickly, which he did. I was visibly upset. I left the room to do something and when I came back he hugged me and started kissing me again. This next bit is entirely on me. I ended up sitting straddling his lap. He flipped me over so I was lying on the sofa and he was I top of me. He went and got another condom and I just lay there silent. I thought that he had already done it once so what was the point I saying anything, so it happened again for longer this time. It was not nice. I couldn't breathe. I said nothing for as long as I could before asking him to stop again.

Please can someone help me understand what happened the first time? I know the second time I said nothing so that's on me but I'm very confused about everything that happened before.

Thank you and I'm sorry this is so long

OP posts:
Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 23:35

He is just very persistent. He has persued me on and off for the last 3 years since we broke up. He doesn't like to take no for an answer. I remember now how pushy he was when we were together, coercing me into sex when I had said no. It all came flooding back after this happened

It's a shame I cant report him anonymously and leave my name out if it too just so it was on his record

OP posts:
Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 23:36

Pollaidh I think he needs to read that book

OP posts:
Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 23:38

Of course after our 3rd conversation about this he now claims to have not heard me say 3 times in an otherwise silent room that I wasn't sure. Funny how he didn't bring that up the first two times we talked about this

OP posts:
KellyHall · 12/02/2020 23:43

He abused you sexually and is continuing to abuse you emotionally.

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 23:47

KellyHall I hadn't thought of it like that

OP posts:
pallisers · 12/02/2020 23:53

agree with KellyHall.

He raped you. He knows it too. He probably couches it as "well she was confused about what she wanted until the end" we all know what it was - including him.

Please stop talking to this man - don't let him in your life or space.

I wish you every good wish, OP, dealing with the kind of abuse so many women deal with - but still they rise.

Original poster
Tinybelles · 12/02/2020 23:57

I'm pleased I called him out on his behaviour. I should have trusted my gut long ago and stopped contact. I really hope I don't hear from him again. I can't listen to anymore.

OP posts:
KellyHall · 13/02/2020 00:22

The trouble is that as adults, we think we should be immune to being groomed and abused. We are not immune from it, neither is it our fault. It is always a risk.

I wish you the very best. Sending you strength Flowers

firsttimemomx · 13/02/2020 00:26

Even if you had consented for the time when he came back into the room, you still didn't consent the first time anyway! So either way what he did was completely disgusting and I'm so sorry this happened to you. I think some men seem to think it's okay unless they're physically holding you down when that isn't the case in a lot of rapes.

firsttimemomx · 13/02/2020 00:29

Btw I'm not saying the time after he walked back in the room was okay - that's equally as vile of him. I just mean I think some women doubt themselves like 'oh I had consensual sex with him 2 days later so the first time couldn't of been rape' etc.. but defiantly not the case at all!

madcatladyforever · 13/02/2020 00:42

You did not consent. He bullied you into sex which was rape.
He can dress it up however he likes. It was rape.

Original poster
Tinybelles · 13/02/2020 07:16

firsttimemomx that's what he kept telling me, over and over. That he didn't hold me down. He didn't force me. It didnt matter how many times I explained that it was lack of consent that made something rape, not the use of force.

In my head I can explain it logically but it's hard to apply it to myself. I don't know why I didnt try harder to resist when he was lying me back in the sofa. I think I thought my words would be enough. Plus he is literally twice my size.

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 13/02/2020 09:19

You just froze from shock. Words weren't enough because he didn't stop and you went into freeze mode as a result. It's a reaction caused by evolution. Your body felt you were in extreme danger of further physical harm. It's a physical reaction to danger.

He's a rapist. He knew you didn't want to.

3rdchristmaslucky · 13/02/2020 09:30

You did not consent. You were raped.
You need to keep this in mind if you choose to report that. Too often, the fact that you allowed yourself to be in a position where things were getting heated has been used against victims. Your words and intentions will be questioned and you need to stay strong.

Going forward from this, you should look into some counselling and working on your ability to be assertive. This is not your fault and I am not victim blaming, but getting these tools under your belt will help you to feel more in control of situations and able to tell someone to firmly fuck off.

Please find some support.

SinkGirl · 13/02/2020 09:39

Put it this way. If you were kissing someone and they were pushing you away, saying they weren’t sure, visibly upset, moving away from you etc, would you continue? Would they have to explicitly say no for you to get the message? I very much doubt it. He’s a human being who understands what this behaviour means. He’s just ignored it.

Original poster
Tinybelles · 13/02/2020 09:56

I can't help but wonder why he bought condoms with him when he only came to help me move some furniture.

OP posts:
Pollaidh · 13/02/2020 09:58

This is the book that explains consent for children. My DC were very interested in it, and took it seriously, adding examples from their own lives. If all boys and girls could grow up understanding the messages in this book, there's hope for the next generation.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07SZKSHTK/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Original poster
Tinybelles · 13/02/2020 10:45

That looks like a great book, thank you. I'm tempted to send him the link too.

OP posts:
12345kbm · 13/02/2020 10:57

OP you need a non molestation order against this POS. He's been harassing you for three years and has now raped you. You made it clear that his sexual advances were not welcome and he sexually assaulted you, then raped you. Freezing is a common trauma response.

Another organisation to contact is Rape Crisis who can discuss this with you, clarify what happened and talk you through your options.

You can call NCDV about a non molestation order.

Quartz2208 · 13/02/2020 18:13

Oh OP I think you know why he brought condoms round.

I agree you need a non mol - does he already have a police record

AngelsSins · 13/02/2020 18:29

I’m so sorry this happened to you, he’s an absolute prick.

Let me be clear though, there are men in prison for horrifically violent rapes that believe what they didn’t wasn’t rape.
There are men who rape little children but convince themselves the child want it, so it wasn’t rape.
There are also rapists who aren’t in prison, who believe what they do is not rape.

You do not need him to agree that it was rape to validate how you feel or what happened. He’s filth.

Original poster
Tinybelles · 13/02/2020 19:51

Quartz2208 I did a clares law disclose when we were seeing each other and there was nothing on it

OP posts:
Original poster
Tinybelles · 13/02/2020 19:53

AngelsSins that's a good point. I don't need him to agree in order for it to be rape but I think it would help me to accept it. Om still in denial. Think I've made something out of nothing

OP posts:
Original poster
Tinybelles · 13/02/2020 20:03

Quartz2208 I feel really horrible thinking about the condoms now. He had decided it was going to happen before he even left home 😪

OP posts:
LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 13/02/2020 20:40

OK, let's talk about the condoms for a sec. He brought them with you because he planned to rape you. So even if you had shouted NO! At the top of your voice, he would have still raped you. Even if you had pushed him off you, he would still have raped you. Because it was always his plan to rape you.

Your 'freeze' reaction was actually the best, safest reaction - if you'd fought back, he would have hurt you. Because it was always his plan to rape you.

I'm so sorry OP.

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