What the hell is going on??!!

[candymilk]

So I need some perspective. I'm going out of my mind.

DH birthday tomorrow and so we went out for the day today as a little treat. Plan was to get to the town/place, have a coffee, look around a few shops and then have dinner altogether in quite a nice place which has some nice memories for us - kids with us too. DH said to kids bring some pocket money to spend at the shops.

Got there all good. Had coffee, mooched in an art gallery and a couple of grown up (boring) shops and then DH says right let's go and have dinner. I said to him about kids spending there pocket money (his suggestion) and asked could we do that first/before.

Cue a huge and prolonged rant from him at me in the street in front of kids and loads of people. So cringe. Lots of shouting about it always being about the kids and he wants to do what he wants to do on his birthday! So awful :( so embarrassing. I was so shocked and taken aback by his outburst.

He then says right let's look at shops then and stormed down the high street with us trailing behind. We didn't go into any shops and eventually got to the nice food place and he said no he didn't want to go in as it's spoiled so we went to a pizza place instead and ate in virtual silence.

Got home had a bit of a row (again) and basically he says I'm thoughtless and only care about the kids and he wanted one day for himself. I think he is being really childish and immature.

Now he's sulking and acting wounded like such a martyr that I feel guilty even though he overreacted and caused the whole nonsense!

Is it just me or is it him? I'm so confused I feel like I did something so awful and ruined his birthday - that is how he is acting :(

Ps he does have form for doing this kind of thing and it's always because I've done something 'thoughtless'

[candymilk]

Morning. Thanks everyone.

I just can't believe that he is blaming me for the whole blow up and everything being ruined.

When I confronted him and said you have caused this by behaving the way you did - he said I caused it because of my 'behaviour'.

He doesn't accept he acted like a child. Any rational adult would be able to deal with this and ask/take me to one said and discuss it in a calm way.

I can't really forgive him for the outburst in the street - my poor daughter said to him later on in the evening that it was really embarrassing and he just played it down. My son who is older is also so embarrassed.

When I said it was embarrassing he just said oh why who do you know who lives here, do you know anyone? No so what's the problem.

Looking back I did everything I could to try and de-escalate/calm him in the street - I said ok sorry let's go and have lunch (over and over) but he didn't listen and just continued the rant.

Mortifying :(

[TheReef]

I think at this point I'd give him his unwrapped birthday pressies, and go and buy him a 'happy 6th birthday' card too. I'd give him something genuine to moan about and take the dc out without him for the day. Let him spend his birthday on his own.

He sounds vile op. No caring mad would embarrass his wife and kids in public (or in private tbh), he certainly wouldn't shout and gaslight them

[candymilk]

In his defence he had a rough childhood with parents who damaged him emotionally. His dad was a scary shouty man who was distant and didn't engage with his kids and his mum had an affair and walked out on them a few times/lied to them etc. They both also passed away about 7 years ago and it affected him and whenever he is upset with me he makes me feel guilty and sorry for him that his parents are dead and he has no one .

but saying that my parents are both dead too and I had an awful relationship with my mum and a strained one with my Dad and so the last thing I would want to do is put my kids through all of that too.

That's what I can't understand and also I think he thinks I am there to fix him. Sometimes I think I am an enabler/co-dependent etc but it's not right. I also feel like a carer.

I'm going to try and phone women's aid this week.

[candymilk]

But he is getting weekly counselling so I am hoping that there is hope for him and us.

[Isthisit22]

OP please let today be the day you start the change.
You are (understandably) angry that you ended up apologising. Don't compound that by giving him his gifts and being nice to him today. Your children need to see that this behaviour is not OK or they will replicate it in their own relationships.
Let your children give gifts if they wish but you should not be giving him anything or doing anything for him today.
In fact, is there anywhere you can go? You said you have left before?
Don't feel guilty it is his birthday. Many of women's problems stem from social conditioning to feel guilt for lots of things that many men take absolutely no responsibility for.

[Isthisit22]

Oh my god. Just read your last posts and they make me want to cry for you (and possibly shake you a bit)
Do you want your own children to be in the same position in 20 years!!
You are describing a terrible cycle. Break it by leaving him. Show them good responses and relationships instead.
He can get counselling himself, alone and if he truly changes you can reconsider thr relationship

[doublebarrellednurse]

Even if you did do something thoughtless, which personally I don't think you did, that is not how you behave or respond as an adult.

You suck it up and discuss later your feelings.

He needs to grow up and get a grip.

[Ouchaheadinmybehind]

In his defence he had a rough childhood with parents who damaged him emotionally

But what damage do you think he is causing YOUR kids by behaving like this?

[candymilk]

I often daydream about leaving him and setting up on my own in my own house, just me and the kids and in my head it is wonderful and we are so happy but I know in reality they wouldn't be, they would miss their dad and it would be hard negotiating access and all that stuff with him - I think he would be even more unbearable and damage the kids more. I honestly think he would.

[olivertwistwantsmore]

@candymilk, if he's been an abusive knob for the last ten years, he will never change. Ignore his threats to commit suicide - he won't. It's another tactic abusive men use to keep you under control.

Never mind his lack of support system - that's his own fault. His our childhood is an explanation for his behaviour - not an excuse.

Your kids are being damaged by his behaviour every day. And so are you.

If you're worried about how he might act with Ty dc when he has time with them, speak to your solicitor. They will have seen similar situations and will be able to advise.

💐

[Lunde]

candymilk - In his defence he had a rough childhood with parents who damaged him emotionally. His dad was a scary shouty man who was distant and didn't engage with his kids and his mum had an affair and walked out on them a few times/lied to them etc.

Yet now he has become the scary shouty dad who rants on the street and threatens to leave!

He is doing exactly the same thing to his own kids as his parents did to him. In 20 years your children will be the damaged ones if you don't act soon.

[Yeahnah2020]

Wow. He really is pathetic.if you don’t leave him for this, please the next time he does this laugh in his face then go and have a great time with the kids.

[doodleygirl]

OP the choices you make now will define your children’s childhood and maybe their future relationships. At the moment they see a relationship as daddy yelling and behaving very badly and mummy apologising. Is this really what you want to teach them.

You cannot change how your abuser behaves but you can change how you behave and how you move forward. You do have that control.

[Treesinthewind]

@candymilk I split with my abusive ex with MH issues in September. Shortly afterwards I was saying to a friend “I worry because, you know, you see awful stories of men who kill themselves and their kids to hurt their ex” and she looked at me in absolute shock. I realised that that isn’t a thing that people I’m healthy relationships ever worry about. A couple of years ago when I had to go to work after an argument with ex and leave DC with him, I rang my best friend in tears and, because she knew him and our relationship, she totally knew what I meant about those worries. It’s horrendous to feel like that. I can’t say that it’s easy splitting up with a a like this, but I do know that I am so much happier not living like I was, and my relationship with my son is so much better as I’m not constantly stressed and walking on eggshells. I’d highly recommend finding your local domestic abuse charity and having a chat with them. Sending love and strength x

[MakeItRain]

I did get out of a relationship with a "scary shouty" man. It was really tough after I left for a few years, but we have that house now that you're dreaming of. Just me and my children in a lovely, calm and happy home. Don't kid yourself that staying is protecting them. Staying is sending signal after signal that you might not like what's happening, but fundamentally you'll accept and put up with it and even apologise for it. By walking away you give the message that he can behave like that, but people won't accept it and will walk away.

Your children are getting to the age where they can decide for themselves whether they want to stay with their dad, so you shouldn't get the prolonged fight for arrangements for who lives where. If he's unkind to them, they can see him on their terms; they don't have to stay over.

Whatever your future plans, tell him that if he ever treats you and your children like that in the street (or anywhere) again you will walk off and leave him to it. Absolutely don't apologise. Tell him today you can't believe you apologised for HIS appalling behaviour. And resolve you won't do it again in the future. I'd be inclined to take your children out shopping and leave him to it today.

[GabsAlot]

You cant stay because of the kids-it wont work it will just get worse-you thik youve got control of the situation but theyre already witnessing abuse-is this how you want them to think relationships are

He might not even want access you dont know yet-please get some advice on how to leave

[billybagpuss]

His dad was a scary shouty man who was distant and didn't engage with his kids

This sounds like exactly who he has become.

Get in touch with women’s aid and read through @jamaisadore’s threads www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?pg=1. This is a link to the first one. Her worry was also tat the kids didn’t want to.

[secretskillrelationships]

If you leave, the time you children spend with you will be in a healthy household with a parent who shows appropriate behaviour. Yes, they'll also spend time with their father and you can't control his behaviour or their exposure to it. But at present they spend 100% of their time in a household where you also can't control his behaviour or their exposure to it. I really understand the sense that you're protecting them at the moment, but you're not - they know you're anxious and that means your attention is more on him than them.

One of the challenges for me after we split, in much less extreme circumstances, was when I noticed my children making the same excuses for their dad as I had. That's what really woke me up to how bad his behaviour actually was and how one needs to watch the 'don't bad mouth' advice. Since I spotted it, I now try not to excuse or downplay and, if possible, name the behaviour, or even just empathise - I found that really annoying when he used to do it to me - type responses. Now my children are older, I have more honest conversations.

I took much longer to leave that I should have because it seemed a huge step. Later, I read something on mumsnet that would have helped. What you need is some space. A few days or weeks, just to allow things to calm down. You don't have to make the decision all in one go.

[bluebell34567]

sorry, but i think there is someone else.

[Interestedwoman]

'But does that sound like proper emotional abuse though? I've often thought he might be EA but then I think perhaps he is just a horrible, cruel and selfish arsehole!! He doesn't control my money and hasn't tried to cut me off from family (although he is sometimes a bit funny about my close relationship with my brothers. It doesn't feel like textbook EA but I feel like I'm going mad.'

I'm not an expert, but I think you're talking about coercive control- when a partner does various things to try and control you etc.

Emotional/verbal abuse as I see it is where someone has a go at you, trying to make you feel badly about yourself. It can be part of coercive controll, but a person can also be emotionally abusive without being overtly controlling in everyday life. As you went through the thread though, I think you did mention a few things he's done which are controlling. Emotional abuse is also designed to control you by altering how you feel about the situation- such because of how he acts you feel scared to leave him with the kids etc, or may feel less confident to go it alone, or feel like a bad person if you leave.

He's also manipulative, going on about his parents etc.

Relate also call coercive control emotional abuse, as you do. He still ticks about half the boxes! www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-relationships/arguing-and-conflict/what-emotional-abuse Abuse is a spectrum, and the only acceptable amount of abuse in a relationship is none.

As to worrying about separating meaning the kids will be on their own with him some of the time- it also means they'll have plenty of time where they don't have to be around him at all, which they don't at the moment.

[Cherrysoup]

Classic abuse 😢 I don’t think staying to minimise the damage to the dc is at all correct. Nobody can make you do anything, but it just strikes me as an outsider that staying is far more damaging. He sounds horrific, OP. Protect yourself and your children.

[bluebell34567]

typical behaviour of that sort.

[Interestedwoman]

This is good www.verywellmind.com/identify-and-cope-with-emotional-abuse-4156673

'I've often thought he might be EA but then I think perhaps he is just a horrible, cruel and selfish arsehole!!'

If someone is horrible and cruel, that's verbal/emotional abuse. Being selfish probably is emotional abuse some of the time too, when he deliberately does stuff which treats you or the children as less important than him. So, the two are virtually synonymous.

[puds11]

Stop defending him because of his childhood. I had a shit childhood and early 20’s but I don’t verbally abuse my partner anywhere, let alone on the street in front of our children.

You need to understand that you cannot ‘fix’ him or ‘save’ him, only he can, so stop feeling sorry for someone who clearly doesn’t give enough of a shit about his family to get the help he needs.

Do not minimise this behaviour to your children. If anything, highlight how wrong it is so they don’t end up repeating it or tolerating it.

[UYScuti]

He complains that now his parents are dead he's got no one.... well what does he fucking expect when he treats people like that!!