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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this normal??

77 replies

Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 22:37

Please bear with me... my first time ever posting... I’ve always been a thread lurker in the background; but would really really appreciate some help / advice and or both.
I have been in my current relationship 15+ years and have 3 children.
My relationship has always been up and down, and although I would have always in the past described it is passionate for the last few years to be honest I’ve been pretty miserable.
There has always been dramas whether it was my drinking and going out or gambling issues, but I feel that I have always been a constant, as in I feel that I am the level headed ‘fair’ approachable one out of the two of us. His moods change with the wind and he is often moody and won’t communicate.
He has always verbally abused me, no matter whom is around, if the red mist descends I am for it. This Christmas he didn’t come to lunch at my parents house because he didn’t feel like it. He told me this at 10 in the morning. I put a brave face on and took the kids on my own.

Boxing Day he wasn’t in the mood to talk and kicked the door and went to bed when he couldn’t open up a Terry’s chocolate orange.

Last summer we went on holiday with some friends and he was getting frustrated with the tolls and the journey, when we pulled in to stop at one station he flipped out, threw a wedge of euros at me and drove off (later to return) leaving me and the kids in a Burger King. All I wanted to do was cry but I remained calm, sorted the kids and said to our friends, we had had a row and it would be okay. Truth was, we hadn’t had a Row, he had just flipped out.

But he is a good father, the kids adore him, and although he is more rough and ready with them overall he wants the vest for them.
My question is, I love this man, but think I can no longer do this. Do you think he has a medical disorder like bipolar etc or do you think it is just emotional abuse?

I feel really stupid writing this down, but I am at my wits end. The 3 things I have mentioned are just a few situations in what seems to be years of shit but he doesn’t have a family as such to support him, and I just feel like if I walk away he’ll have no one.

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 00:39

Helpfullilly - thank you for taking the time to write this to me; I’m actually crying reading it - its really struck a chord with me. Especially the bit about your defence mechanism of laughing, and you wanting your mum to confront the problem instead of ignoring it.
Sadly, I see many similarities between your experiences and mine, but I am the parent in this situation and you have really given me food for thought. Thank you x

OP posts:
Helpfullilly · 11/01/2020 02:12

I know I've written loads and glad if I have helped in any way, but wanted to add my mum started drinking heavily while with my dad. -- She doesn't drink like this since separating/divorce.

Her drinking triggered rows and was challenging at times in itself, but wasn't what caused him to be abusive, it was a way of trying to deal with the stress of her unhappy and abusive marriage. I wonder if the drinking and gambling is similar for you, though obviously they could be issues on their own?

And the kids know. Watching and listening to my mum play down my dad's mistreatment was really disturbing, sometimes more so than the abuse alone. It basically condoned the behaviour and I could see it was bad and sometimes very upsetting, but she tried to hide it. That taught me I shouldn't tell the truth or be honest about my feelings either, and made it harder to deal with my emotions around what was happening.

I often heard things in the night or from another room. I'd seem like I was watching TV but I was still aware.

Sadly, one memory that stands out is how it suddenly escalated one day without warning and I witnessed him assaulting my mother, over something similar to the choc orange issue. She maybe argued back more than usual at his unreasonableness when he complained about this minor thing, but he just went for her. I was so quiet they didn't know I was there for most of it (watching from an adjacent room. I'd been doing my home work). I was too scared to move or speak. He was telling her how he could kill her if he wanted.

The look on her face when she noticed me watching her be pinned against the wall will stay with me forever (she was horrified I'd seen) as will the terror in her eyes that accompanied the big false smile she put on her face once he let her go. -- Like I hadn't just seen what he'd done and heard her begging him to stop. Like I didn't know it had scared and hurt her.

Of course I knew.

That smile was the worst part. The fiction she was trying to spin around our seriously fucked up reality. -- if she'd come to me after and hugged me and said it was wrong and it was awful, and cried with me, somehow that would have been more okay. It'd have given me permission to feel my own pain. Validate my own awareness of the wrongness. Been comforting.

That smile wasn't protection. It didn't change the reality of the abuse we experienced, it was facilitating the abuse continuing, minimising it, messing with my head. Isolating me from support. I wanted to call the police after he attacked her but it felt a huge thing to do, and I was so scared mum wouldn't tell them the truth, and then what might he do to me? I'd seen what he was capable of, and over something small. And what if it was actually a normal thing and I'd cause a load of fuss over nothing?

I had no one I felt I could speak to about what I was going through and what was going on at home. I knew it was a secret thing, embarrassing so had to be minimised or hidden, and as it was my normal I felt I was the problem. That me being in pain or troubled by it had to have some other cause and I had to be a selfish daughter for resenting aspects of my upbringing. After all, I was told by mum I had a loving father and a good life, she acted as if it was all okay, I wasn't neglected in terms of food or clothing, or shelter. He could be fun, too. He didn't hit with a closed fist, or regularly attack my mum. He brought me nice things and he was my dad, so he had to love me, right? He mostly just had these awful mood swings and said mean things, but if we did what he wanted he was generally alright.

On the outside most people wouldn't know anything was wrong, though I tended to be a bit quiet. I seemed a happy child, but inside I had a lot of pain and anger which had nowhere to go. I knew how to fake a smile and disassociate mentally from what was going on, you see. I learned it from mum. I didn't even know I was feeling unhappy or depressed or angry exactly, as I didn't remember a time before feeling that way. It was only after I escaped the abuse and stopped seeing my dad. I was sitting on a train and I became aware I felt the absence of this pressure inside me which had always been there, and I realised. -- That I'd been stressed out and sad and angry at a constant low level all my childhood, and that this new feeling was how life was supposed to be. I wasn't happy, necessarily, I just wasn't actively hurting underneath everything else all the time anymore. It was both wonderful and utterly heartbreaking.

It's not your fault, you are suffering too... I don't blame my (lovely) mum for what happened to me as she was just doing her best and didn't understand what I was going through (or herself, really). I didn't have the words or understanding to have explained it as a child, and she was so consumed with getting through each day, but please, protect your kids from this. I'm saying these things now that I can for those little people who don't have the words.

I wish you well and safety. x

IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls · 11/01/2020 02:40

I mean this kindly but i have been a Psychiatric Nurse for 20 years and what you describe does not ring any bells for any mental health difficulty/illness let alone Bipolar.

Sounds to me like he has poor frustration tolerance and anger management issues .

His choice of behaviour is not healthy role modelling for your DC .

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 11/01/2020 08:58

It doesn't sound like any diagnosable problem apart from "being an abusive fuck head".

Bipolar symptoms
www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/about-mental-illness/learn-more-about-conditions/bipolar-disorder/
Nothing you've described of his behaviour fits.

Have a look on this Relationships board for the current "But we took you to stately homes" thread. Full of posters who suffered emotional and verbal abuse in childhood (and sone physical and sexual abuse too)

Have a think - of all the people you speak to, how many have said "wow I'm so grateful my parents stayed together and my mum kept taking the punches for me, it's given me a really healthy blueprint for relationships"?

My dad was abusive in pretty much every way. I still loved him and desperately needed his approval. Its only been as an adult that I've realised that children are programmed to "need" their parents, for reasons of survival. I've stopped blaming myself. ("If you didn't like it you would have run away and lived on the streets" he said. I've been NC for 30 years.)

Offside · 11/01/2020 09:16

You’ve got lots of good advice on here OP, I just wanted to pick up on the gambling.

You say you would only agree to go to GA if he went to relate, I think that’s really unfair as your gambling problem is yours alone and shouldn’t be lumped in with your relationship problems - this is coming from someone who’s DH had a hidden gambling problem for a long time and when it all came out HE had to face it head on. He was in denial at first about going to GA but he did go, even if it was to save our relationship in the first instance and he’s not gambled or thought about gambling for well over a year now.

The thing that concerns me is that you say you do think about gambling and have closed your accounts etc etc My DH did this in the past but he found ways around it, if you think about it you will eventually want to do it and will do it. The only thing that truly nipped it in the bud for my DH was GA. He used to go once a week, but now hardly goes as he has it under control, he doesn’t think about it and hasn’t been tempted. We have better communication because of it and he has opened up a lot more about his triggers which has enabled him to deal with other areas of his life. I imagine there’s a lot of resentment from your DHs side, especially if you haven’t sort help, not that this excuses his behaviour at all, but it may explain deep rooted issues together with the drinking that could be triggering him. There’s no point in trying to fix your relationship until you fix yourself.

Interestedwoman · 11/01/2020 09:33

'not all but allot of it is him to a tee (obviously I don’t know his thoughts, but certainly the behaviours). But if he won’t go to a doctor I don’t know how I can help'

The problem is, if someone has a personality disorder or personality disorder traits, half the time they won't admit it or won't seek help, many of them think there's nothing wrong with them, it's all everyone else. They might seek help for low moods etc if they're in distress, but men are less likely to do that.:(

IMO, you do need to leave. You'd be much happier. This is no way to live. xxxxx

Embracelife · 11/01/2020 10:02

What they said.
It s zbusivd
He is not a good dad
Tho dc may find it tolerable to spend time with him when you split.
Exp was choc orange person too tantrummming and yes he did also got clinical MH diagnoses .
Whatever. Doesn't make it ok. Doesn't mean you have to stay with them.
You need counselling for you alone and you need to leave with dc.
Get support for you.
Dont bother thinking you can try and change him you cannot.

Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 10:16

Helpfullilly - thank you, I always thought that by playing the incidents down it was protecting the kids... but reading your prospective of experiencing this as a child, I realise that maybe it’s not been the right things to do.

I think that with regards to my drinking and gambling they had both become habits, possibly to detract from reality (I no longer gamble) I do certainly use alcohol as a crutch to take the edge off I suppose.

It’s just so hard, as I don’t want to Believe that he sets out to deliberately upset me so it’s easier for me to assume he has mental health issues.

Thank you again for writing your thoughts down, it’s mustn’t have been nice for you xx

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 10:21

IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls - he def has anger issues and a short fuse ... I suppose I want him to “fit” into bipolar or mh box not to excuse behaviour but to explain it, it hurts allot less when you think it’s not personal or there is reasoning behind it I guess

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 10:23

EvenMoreFuriousVexation - thank you for sharing a bit about your childhood... and also that thread- which I’m going to have a look at. It’s the kids that are my main concern, but it’s ironic as he says the same thing.

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 10:27

Offside, yes I have been quite overwhelmed with the responses, and people kind enough to share their experiences.
Also exactly why I put about my gambling as i think it does help explain possibly some resentment of me. To be honest I think GA will be a good thing for me to do ... I suppose I just felt why should I open up to them if he wouldn’t to a councillor (childish I know). I’ve got allot of thinking to do!

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 10:30

Interestedwoman - sadly I agree, I don’t think he will ever seek help. I think we are both pretty miserable and yes, it’s no way to live. I’ve got Allot of thinking to do , thank you for your thoughts x

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 10:33

Embracelife - thanks for the reply... I suppose I wanted to see if MH could be an issue as it wouldn’t excuse but explain his behaviours, in my head it makes it less painful and personal if that makes sense. But I suppose when you strip it all back it’s just not right regardless of anything.

I’ve got a bit of soul searching to do... think I need to start with G.A. Thank you x

OP posts:
elliemcx · 11/01/2020 10:44

i feel for you op. You can't walk on eggshells for the rest of your life! He sounds out of control!

Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 11:34

elliemcx - It is a bit draining to say the least ... I’ve got allot of thinking to do xx

OP posts:
RoLaren · 11/01/2020 11:55

Forget 'thinking' start 'doing'. You know what's right. Your poor children are being permanently damaged by all this. Start fixing it now.

Embracelife · 11/01/2020 13:57

If someone kills someone they can use diminished responsibility to get a different or lesser sentence.
The outcome for the victim is the same.
Either way you and dc dont need to live with this.
Being nice sometimes isnt enough.

starry7 · 11/01/2020 16:14

I think you need to speak to your children about this. Honestly, so much angst in difficult relationships could be eased if parents simply talked to their kids. Don't assume they're fine or not picking up on stuff--you need to ask them, and they need to feel safe to speak their mind. Otherwise they could end up feeling insecure, isolated, and afraid to speak out. I know this is tough, but I'm saying this based on my own experience and research into the effects of volatile childhoods (though I'm not a professional).

What he said about the kids not wanting to live with you is bang out of order, IMO. I bet he has no clue what they want.

Opaljewel · 12/01/2020 09:42

I just want to point out to the op, please don't label your husband as bipolar. That's quite offensive. Bipolar does not make you verbally abusive or just moody. It's nothing of the sort and casually labling someone's abusive behaviour as a type of mental health problem doesn't help with the stigma. I'm not being rude just pointing it out. Good luck with the rest. And for what's it worth I would leave him.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 12/01/2020 10:49

I suppose I wanted to see if MH could be an issue as it wouldn’t excuse but explain his behaviours, in my head it makes it less painful and personal if that makes sense

Yes it does make sense. I've been there myself. It's less painful to believe "s/he is sick" than "s/he hates me enough to treat me like this".

A word of advice from one addictive personality to another. Find something healthy (or at least not harmful) and make it your thing. I've spent my life being addicted to:
Smoking (40+ per day - gave up in 2004)
Alcohol (started age 12, at my worst was drinking 4 bottles of wine per day)
Risky sexual behaviours (going back to complete strangers houses, not using condoms)
Starting fist fights (with men)
Smoking weed - I qualified it as "medicinal" at the time but it very obviously wasn't
Shoplifting... I had an entire wardrobe of clothes I had stolen
Binge eating (I hit 23 stone)

I had Gastric bypass as my weight had only ever increased throughout my life. After the op I physically could not binge eat any more, so I developed some new addictions.

🤨 Masturbating (I burned out the motor on 3 vibrators in a row)
🤨 Building strength. I went to the gym 4 times per week, used to get up at 5.30am to catch the bus there and then go to work. I recorded all my workouts in the Fitocracy app and aimed to get a personal best every time.
🤨 Started cooking food from scratch - I was always a takeaway and ready meal addict before
🤨 Really got into learning stuff. Particularly very technical things.

Ask yourself what the most exciting part of your addiction is. The risk? Look for a hobby that lets you take controlled risks, eg rock climbing. Replicate the thrill in a healthy way.

Good luck op. Oh and good luck kicking your useless dp out.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/01/2020 10:59

Women in poor relationships often write the good dad comment as well when they can think of absolutely nothing positive to write about their man. He is not a good father to his children and you're too wrapped up in your own gambling and drinking issues to be a stable mother and fully emotionally available to these children.

What are the root causes of your drinking and gambling issues; address these through therapy along with the likes of AA and GA. Address these before you get further dragged down by them and your abusive man in your life. What happened to you as a child, what was your own childhood like here?. Are you basically repeating this with your kids now?.
Take responsibility here for your own poor choices made to date.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/01/2020 11:01

I would also read about codependency because you may also be codependent when it comes to relationships. It is not your problem that he does not have a family to support him, you are not responsible for him ultimately but your children.

One day they will leave home and sooner rather than later if you both carry on this dysfunctional and abusive relationship with each other.
What are you getting out of this relationship anyway?.

Ann86132 · 12/01/2020 11:29

starry7 - yes I agree that I need to address this with the kids... I’d hate for them to think they couldn’t come to me (or him for that matter) if something was up

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 12/01/2020 11:31

Opaljewel - thank you for pointing that out, I didn’t even think about that to be honest, just trying to explain his behaviour I guess; and I obviously don’t know enough about it all x

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 12/01/2020 11:31

Opaljewel - and I didn’t mean to cause offence, so sorry if I did x

OP posts:
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