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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this normal??

77 replies

Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 22:37

Please bear with me... my first time ever posting... I’ve always been a thread lurker in the background; but would really really appreciate some help / advice and or both.
I have been in my current relationship 15+ years and have 3 children.
My relationship has always been up and down, and although I would have always in the past described it is passionate for the last few years to be honest I’ve been pretty miserable.
There has always been dramas whether it was my drinking and going out or gambling issues, but I feel that I have always been a constant, as in I feel that I am the level headed ‘fair’ approachable one out of the two of us. His moods change with the wind and he is often moody and won’t communicate.
He has always verbally abused me, no matter whom is around, if the red mist descends I am for it. This Christmas he didn’t come to lunch at my parents house because he didn’t feel like it. He told me this at 10 in the morning. I put a brave face on and took the kids on my own.

Boxing Day he wasn’t in the mood to talk and kicked the door and went to bed when he couldn’t open up a Terry’s chocolate orange.

Last summer we went on holiday with some friends and he was getting frustrated with the tolls and the journey, when we pulled in to stop at one station he flipped out, threw a wedge of euros at me and drove off (later to return) leaving me and the kids in a Burger King. All I wanted to do was cry but I remained calm, sorted the kids and said to our friends, we had had a row and it would be okay. Truth was, we hadn’t had a Row, he had just flipped out.

But he is a good father, the kids adore him, and although he is more rough and ready with them overall he wants the vest for them.
My question is, I love this man, but think I can no longer do this. Do you think he has a medical disorder like bipolar etc or do you think it is just emotional abuse?

I feel really stupid writing this down, but I am at my wits end. The 3 things I have mentioned are just a few situations in what seems to be years of shit but he doesn’t have a family as such to support him, and I just feel like if I walk away he’ll have no one.

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:32

I am willing to try to change. But he has to acknowledge he needs to too

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:35

I agree, that it is totally unacceptable, but I found myself just picking the bike up and taking son to the park... does that make me an enabler? In trying not to make a scene and keep the peace would you say I’m making things too easy for him?

OP posts:
Ellapaella · 10/01/2020 23:39

What @Interestedwoman said - intimidating a child through acts of anger and violence (even if not actually physically violent to them, but throwing a bike in anger) is emotional abuse at best. Stop making excuses for his shitty behaviour by pointing out all your own perceived failures and put yourself and your children first. Really, think of your children - this is not what you want then to think is 'normal' in a relationship as they get older.
This isn't going to get any better and he's not going to stop behaving like this - it's not normal at all and you and your children deserve better.

Lipz · 10/01/2020 23:39

Are you still gambling ? Is he paying off your debt or are you ?

How often are you drinking ?

Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:41

Interestedwoman - I’ve jusy read through the link that you attached - not all but allot of it is him to a tee (obviously I don’t know his thoughts, but certainly the behaviours). But if he won’t go to a doctor I don’t know how I can help... and also like you said it could just be wanker behaviour!! Thank you though x

OP posts:
KellyHall · 10/01/2020 23:41

The children are sure to see, sense and have been forever altered by far more than you say. Maybe you don't realise.

You two are their role models, you teach them directly or indirectly: what behaviour is acceptable; how to treat people; how to let people treat you; how to have a relationship with a partner; how to respect your possessions and surroundings.

I had similar issues with my dh but my dd isn't yet 3. After giving him all the facts about how his behaviour was affecting me and possibly dd, I told him I'd reached my limit. Less than a week later, he slipped up. I told him if he wouldn't be husband and father this family deserves then he couldn't live with us. I meant it. I had details of rooms he could rent elsewhere, I had my finances in order. And he'll always be on his last chance now. It seems to have been the wake up call he needed and things have greatly improved.

Do you want him to get better? Or have you already passed the point of no return?

Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:43

Ellapaella - I know, I sort of knew it all along... it’s taken strangers on here telling me to make it sink in 😔

OP posts:
MusicTeacherSussex · 10/01/2020 23:44

Yes OP the non attendance of xmas which is the ultimate family event really (btw we are all atheists and we celebrate the family feast of yule tide and 2 weeks off work) is a deal breaker. I ditched a fiancee as he didn't attend as he felt smoking week was more important than joining my family at the table agywr I'd joined his on xmas eve for theirs (European). You know what you gott do the signs are there

Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:45

I was lucky enough for a family member to pay the majority of it off. (He says I won’t learn by that) I’m paying a couple off by myself. I drink most evenings, even if just one glass of wine.

OP posts:
MusicTeacherSussex · 10/01/2020 23:46

Excuse my writing I am not very good on a new phone here also Confused

Pinksmyfavoritecolour · 10/01/2020 23:47

Maybe if you asked him, he’s as fed up with your drinking and gambling (do you have an addictive personality perhaps)? as much as your fed up with his bad behaviour, 9k is a lot of debt, and maybe he’s resentful of the secrets you kept from him, also there must be pressure on you both to clear the debt. Have you both sat and discussed all these issues you have with each other. One way or another it sounds like a chat is needed even if it’s to discuss splitting and how you both move on from this with you children’s best interests at heart.

madcatladyforever · 10/01/2020 23:48

Rough and ready as in the way he speaks to them like “mates” and the way he teaches things, often he has loads of patience but once he’s snapped he’s gone - he once threw a bike across the playing field when my son refused to carry on trying to learn to ride. He’s never been physically abusive to them

I hate to contradict you but this is being a shit, abusive and violent father. You don't have a tantrum as an adult and destroy your childrens possesions because they are refusing to do exactly what you want.
You don't have a tantrum, drive off and leave your kids in a burger king.
This reminds me of my own childhood where I was constantly on edge and frightened by my parents uncontrolled emotions and violent rows.
It has affected me all of my life. Leave this prick, he is a nasty bully. Don't make excuses for him.

Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:49

KellyHall - id love him to get better... but I’m teetering right on the edge of no return ... I’d love nothing more than for him to wake tomo and realise how he’s been behaving but I don’t think that’s going to happen. When I’ve asked him to change in the past he always calls my bluff by saying to me that you know where the door is . It’s like we can’t live with but can’t live without

OP posts:
KellyHall · 10/01/2020 23:52

Give him an actual ultimatum.

The only way you'll really know whether you can live without each other is if you try actually living without each other.

Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:53

Pinksmyfavoritecolour, exactly, I felt I had to put about my drinking and gambling in the post as otherwise it’d wouldn’t be true representation. Yes he was very angry about the gambling. And hurt the fact I kept it from him. When it all came out I said I was willing to go to g.a. If he would go to relate with me (or similar) but he flatly refuses to go, and indeed talk about his issues.

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:56

madcatladyforever - this is what scares me, the fact we could be damaging our kids. I had a lovely childhood , and want that for mine. He always manages to make an excuse as to why he did what he did, so it makes me doubt myself, and I don’t want to make a scene for the sake of making a scene and upsetting people if that makes sense.

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 10/01/2020 23:57

KellyHall - I have done halfheartdly so many times before. I need to grow a pair and mean it don’t I

OP posts:
starry7 · 10/01/2020 23:58

I hate to say this but it sounds like your kids are living in fear. That sort of thing will stay with them forever, causing a lot of damage. I know it's tough to hear but he could be setting them up to act like him when they grow up, continuing the negative effects of bad childhoods.

I'm a child of divorce so don't say this lightly but to me it sounds like your children would be better off with just you in the home. They need to know they can trust their caregivers; they are dependent on both of you and if there's fear or mistrust then this can cause stress and anxiety that never goes away and can manifest in a whole load of negative behaviours and mental attitudes.

If he does have a personality disorder then perhaps he can get help, but in the interim I think he needs to be removed from the family home.

I'm really sorry you're going through this--I understand how hard it is to decide to end a relationship (I'm in the same boat right now), but in this case, I really do believe that the needs of the children mean that this guy needs to be removed from their home. Perhaps he can get help, perhaps not ...

MadeForThis · 11/01/2020 00:01

He had a bad childhood yet he's doing the same to your dc.

Could you do dry January?

You say your drinking is only a problem when you go out? Do you mean you only get drunk when your out or he only kicks off when you go out? Is he controlling with you leaving the house?

Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 00:01

MusicTeacherSussex - I understand how you felt... nothing worse than sitting there on your own wanting to enjoy the day and having to paint a smile on is there. I don’t have to go to his family events really as he doesn’t have many... but my family are so important to me, and they do get along, but I feel that when he is in a mood he didn’t care who he hurts ... and that’s not easily forgiven

OP posts:
Lipz · 11/01/2020 00:02

So you're drinking every night.

Are you still gambling ?

Whatever he is doing it sounds to me that your behaviour is part of why he is like this. YES... I know it's not on how he is behaving but these 2 things are HUGE. Drinking and gambling are relationship destroyers.

Is he fed up with theses 2 things still happening ?

You can't give an ultimatum to go to GA unless he does whatever...... these are the actions of a true addict who is not ready to give it up. if you want help YOU need to go and get help and then focus on marriage counselling.

We are only getting your side of the story, I'm sure your dhs would be very different.

When trust is constantly broken, unnecessary debt created and no help being gotten, I'm not surprised he is angry.

Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 00:06

Hi starry7 Thanks for your message, sorry that you too are having relationship issues. My main priority are the kids, And seeing that written down is gut wrenching, I always thought at least they’re with both of us, but I know life isn’t a fairytale, and perhaps things will be better for them if we separate. Thing is, I honestly think where I play it down allot they are oblivious to the general shit that goes on that is not direct (like the bike incident) if that’s makes sense. He has always said that the kids wouldn’t want to live with me as I’m always going on at them

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 00:10

Lipz - hi, thanks for your reply, I added about my drinking and gambling as otherwise it would be totally one sided! I’d feel totally the same if I were him with regards to the gambling, so I do get it. I’m no longer gambling... I have to admit, I do want to but shutting my accounts down and having online banking app that clearly shows transactions helps keep this at bay.

Yes I do have a drink most nights in all honesty.

OP posts:
Ann86132 · 11/01/2020 00:15

MadeForThis - hi, yes I’m cutting down now after the Christmas period... I don’t need a drink. It’s like it’s become a habit ... I’ll open a bottle when I’m cooking etc
It can be an issue when I leave the house to go out, whether it a party at a house, or to a pub (too old for town now lol) Even if he is there he can get wound up, sometimes he doesn’t and we have a lovely time, but there is no rhyme or reason

OP posts:
Helpfullilly · 11/01/2020 00:24

He sounds abusive and like a horrible father.

My dad was abusive, mainly emotionally. I ended up having to get a non-molestation order against him (like a restraining order). Even he managed to teach me to ride a bike without getting frustrated and throwing it.

He'd get angry over stupid things and have tantrums. It was so absurd some of the things that set him off we used to laugh about it (my mum, brother and me). But it wasn't really funny. It was a defence mechanism we used to cope with how unpredictable and unreasonable he was. You never knew what might set him off.

It was childish and silly, but he was also an adult man, much bigger than us and he could be frightening. We laughed to try to deal with the fear and reassure ourselves, and try to convince ourselves we were okay. Otherwise we'd be consumed by it.

Also... children will naturally love their parents and look for affection and attention. That doesn't mean I adored him (while I loved him I also disliked him and viewed him with contempt as he was more emotionally immature than his own children and was cruel to my mum), I just didn't know any different to an abusive father and was trying to protect myself and get him to be more caring towards me.

He could also buy me nice presents and was very funny. When I was very young he used to play with me a lot. My mum insisted he was a good dad due to things like this and him not being abusive ALL the time, and aiming the bulk of abuse at her...of course I'd be listening and watching, taking in that a relationship involved being talked to like dirt by men. That this was normal, as was having to accept being shouted at disrespected myself when he got in a mood.

I learned to change my behaviour to be more accommodating of him and to avoid worse abuse being targeted at me. I have an incredible tolerance now for mistreatment. I will seem calm though the most terrible things. I have been conditioned for this. -- It's horribly unfair.

It's abusive to abuse someone in front of a child, especially a child's mother. It is damaging. It must have been very confusing for your children to be left with you in Burger King (I assume with no other means of transport) because daddy had an inexplicable temper tantrum, and then mummy lied about it. -- This sort of thing I used think felt wrong, but then mum acted like it was actually normal and okay, and it really troubled me. I wanted her to confront the actual problem and protect us.

My dad was disrespectful to my mum but wasn't totally horrible to her in front of others usually, unless he was drunk. He was smart enough to know that would make him seem like an abusive man and it might raise concerns. He mostly tried to do it in a way where it seemed like a joke, so it troubles me your husband is so open with his mistreatment.

Not talking to children in a caring and developmentally appropriate way can be a sign of an abuser, too. I used to be spoken to like a little adult. It shows a lack of empathy and affection.

I really think you are minimising how bad this actually is for you and the children. You are being abused, as are they.

We thought my dad might have a mental health problem (he was sectioned and even in a mental health hospital for a while) but he saw mental health professionals and they basically decided he was honestly just a horrible person. -- I know, it's just so difficult to understand someone like this it seems it must be something like that, but abusers are just horrible for the control and power. In my dad's case he clearly had low self esteem and my mum tried to rescue him. He only had mental space for himself though, due to his issues. He doesn't have properly developed empathy. That's what allows him to be cruel. He doesn't care enough for you all not to be and only about himself and his emotional reality.

Women's Aid were amazing and helped my family so much. I'd highly recommend contacting them. Do be careful how you leave if you chose to. It's often better to do it secretly and then handle the abuser through a solicitor. Abusive men who have not yet been violent can escalate and react in ways they never have before when you try to leave.

I get the A word is hard to face up to, it's a big thing to accept you are or have been abused. It's more comforting to down play it and easier to keep your old sense of yourself and your reality, but you deserve to be happy and safe. So do your children.