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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

TW Something happened a few weeks ago which I can't make sense of.

96 replies

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 01/01/2020 21:17

Name changed for this post. I apologise, I know it's long but I don't want to leave anything out.

I will start by saying that I have issues with alcohol. I was sober for six years and recently started drinking again (not every day but sometimes bingeing at weekends. I know this needs to stop.)

My return to drinking coincided with beginning a new relationship with someone who also has an issue. However, he is much physically larger than I am and has a far higher tolerance.

I suspected he may possibly be emotionally abusive from the beginning of the relationship - he blew hot and cold, and his love bombing episodes were really over the top, whereas his rejections always seemed designed to humiliate and sting as much as possible. I also noticed things which could have been mistakes but made me wonder if they were in fact done on purpose, for example he said once over messenger that he missed my scent, then posted a fish emoji underneath it. When I asked he said he hadn't a clue how it got there. But I was always unsure if he wasn't trying to get a really unpleasant one over on me. Any attempt to discuss his behaviour with him (re his being hot and cold or any unpleasantness) just always led to him becoming hostile and angry. It got to the point where I'd let things slide.

I'd also been told by a friend that a previous partner of his had rung her ex once and said that she was in the garden shed and could he come round and help her because he (the man I have since been involved with) was being really scary. I know this should have made me run a mile but my friend said this woman was prone to manipulation and dishonesty so she didn't know if it was true.

Anyway, me and this man went out one evening recently and past a certain point my memory goes completely. Earlier in the evening he had asked me how I ever got my jeans up "over that belly" (I'm a size 8 so it's a weird insult to level at me really) and I remember thinking, that's it. This has to be the last time I see this guy. We then went to a different pub and I remember the booze giving me the dutch courage I needed to challenge him on some of the stuff he has said and done.

Now I've had years of problem drinking and I'm no stranger to going into blackout. But usually you get at least a couple of small flashes that help you piece the evening together somehow. Past a certain point in the pub I don't even have those - it's just total memory black out.

This man says I was falling over in the pub and outside where you go to smoke, that I was inappropriately chatting up other men and trying to engage strangers, and that the landlady eventually asked him to get me out of there. He says men were then asking if I was safe to leave with him but that was because I was "putting on a damsel in distress act" which was "pure theatre." I think it's possible they may have been picking up on how unpleasant he can be, but I remember nothing.

All I know is my next memory is of waking up at his the next afternoon covered in bruises. Of course some of those will have been as a result of falling over - my coat and jeans were absolutely filthy and covered in dirt - but he did admit he "may have got a little forceful" - his only admittance to having possibly hurt me. Certainly some of my bruises were consistent with being grabbed and possibly manhandled (smaller bruises to wrists and upper arms.) He also says I slapped him, although he didn't mention this until a couple of weeks after the incident when we had already discussed it a couple of times. I don't know if I did or not because I can't remember anything. I am completely anti violence in relationships and am mortified at the thought that I might have. He also says I called him a cunt (I mean he can be awful tbh) and has tried to make out the entire evening was my fault and that he is blameless.

But the main point of upset for me was waking up on Sunday to realise that my vagina was sore in a way that is consistent with having had a lot of sex. I can remember none of it but can only assume this must have come after we had argued and he had grabbed me. I feel really weird about it. Firstly I can't understand why he would have wanted to have sex with me when he could barely look at me on Sunday evening he was so furious. I also can't understand why I can't remember anything, and so I don't know if I was in a fit state to consent. That is what has left me feeling really terrible. Driving home from his after that weekend I just had a horrible, icky feeling in my stomach. I have tried to explain to him since that not knowing what happened has had a real impact on me but this just makes him furious. I enjoyed sex with him so it's perfectly possible I did consent, but it seems strange under the circumstances and I can't remember. Also I was falling down drunk.

I wasn't going to tell anybody about it because I feel ashamed. But the day before new years I had a few to drink and spilled to a couple of female friends who were very supportive. But I feel terribly anxious now. I can't remember what happened so I've no business really painting him in a negative light. I don't want any rumours to start flying round.

I just feel absolutely dreadful and scared and weird about it all. Would like to feel better. I know stopping drinking again needs to be my first port of call.

OP posts:
aroundtheworldyet · 04/01/2020 15:16

That’s very good news. I’m glad you got some RL help.

Kerning · 04/01/2020 19:06

Glad to hear that OP, take care of yourself.

MyMajesty · 04/01/2020 23:20

I'm so glad you got helpful real life support. Flowers

RickOShay · 04/01/2020 23:33

@trying2makesenseofwhathappened
It takes strength to reach out, nurture that feeling. I hope you find peace.
Really well done you for making that call. Flowers

Ruderidinghood · 05/01/2020 01:31

He was probably drugging you hun. Try Nd get help for your drinking pls.

Ogham · 05/01/2020 01:56

I’m relieved you rang them for support and that you won’t minimize what happened to you. Hopefully they can provide counseling for you or advise you on that score.

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 05/01/2020 13:18

The nearest specialist counselling services are many miles away and accessing them would basically be most of a day's endeavour. I've got children to look after and work to do.

To be honest I just now feel inexplicably furious. Just so, so angry. I know how ungrateful I sound when people are being so supportive and so lovely, but I wish I'd never said anything.

Firstly, I cannot understand how anyone (including the woman at rape crisis) can be so sure what happened. The only people there were me and him and I can't remember. So yes, while I understand that technically and legally I may have been raped (as I did not have capacity to consent - I accept that), I don't know about morally. Men do not understand the finer points of the law around consent. He may genuinely have thought I was consenting. If that is the case does he really deserve to be damned forever as a rapist? I don't/can't believe he would have done anything more sinister. He's a wanker, but I don't want to believe he's that evil.

Then I feel angry at myself and sad. Because I am coming to the realisation that perhaps this person just didn't care for me at all. That it was all just a power play for him. Sad

I've told a couple of friends in real life as I don't want to depend too much on just one person, or this thread! But peoples responses make me inexplicably angry. "Just remember it isn't your fault." Ugh. Why does this response make my skin crawl? It seems so patronising.

I'm just so angry and I want to smash things.

OP posts:
Ogham · 05/01/2020 14:06

Maybe it’s normal to go through all the emotions and switch from confused to angry etc. nobody wants to think they’ve been harmed and it’s even more difficult when you don’t remember whats happened. Would you think of getting some private counseling locally just do you can process your thoughts aloud to somebody who’s impartial?

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 05/01/2020 14:13

Yes, maybe. It depends on the cost. But I recognise my emotions are extreme at the moment.

OP posts:
NoMorePoliticsPlease · 05/01/2020 14:20

This is all one big mess you need to separate

Ruderidinghood · 05/01/2020 15:14

Why are you making excuses for him! He raped you. You were in a vulnerable state and he took advantage of you. I firmly believe he drugged you as well.

I know you are swimming in emotion right now. But pls do not make excuses for this scumbag.

HairyString · 05/01/2020 15:28

There's no point in reporting the rape to the Police at this late stage but I would go and talk to them anyway. I would try everything in my power to find out if he has a criminal record for rape or sexual assault. It might be a good idea to make some low key enquiries from other women he has dated to see if they have had similar experiences. You would then have something to take to the police. Take care though. don't let him find out you are asking around.

Could he have had other men rape you also whilst you were unconscious?

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 05/01/2020 15:53

What do you mean NoMorePolitics?

OP posts:
trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 05/01/2020 16:05

He didn't drug me. I'm 99.9% sure of that. It's not impossible but I don't believe he would do that. As for having other men rape me, good god almighty!!! Of course he didn't!! He isn't a monster - he's just fucked up and sometimes not very nice. He's still good friends with one of his ex-partners and they lived together for years. He's a committed father to their children. He helps her out and I never once heard him put her down. He's not all bad.

Look. He's just a garden variety emotional abuser. He's also a drunk who has, on occasion, crossed the line into physical abuse. He had sex with me when he shouldn't have because I didn't have capacity to consent. But I don't believe for a second he actually thought he was doing anything wrong. That's the extent of this sorry tale.

I'm not making excuses for him - I'm just looking at things realistically and as truthfully as I can given I can't remember anything. I feel bad enough as it is. Why all this wild conjecture?

OP posts:
TooTrueToBeGood · 05/01/2020 16:13

Firstly, I cannot understand how anyone (including the woman at rape crisis) can be so sure what happened. The only people there were me and him and I can't remember. So yes, while I understand that technically and legally I may have been raped (as I did not have capacity to consent - I accept that), I don't know about morally. Men do not understand the finer points of the law around consent. He may genuinely have thought I was consenting. If that is the case does he really deserve to be damned forever as a rapist? I don't/can't believe he would have done anything more sinister. He's a wanker, but I don't want to believe he's that evil.

She, and the rest of us, can be sure because we can look at it dispassionately and immediately recognise that by everything you describe there is no doubt that you did not have capacity to consent. Morally, I would say it is unambiguous as well. There are actually men who will reject advances from a woman who is clearly drunk because they appreciate she is not fully in control of herself and may well "regret it in the morning". By contrast, there are men who will actively target drunk women for sex or try and get their date drunk to increase the chances of sex. Do you see any confusion in which type of man has morals and which type is morally corrupt?

I really think you should do everything you can to take up the counselling, even if it will be logistically difficult. You seem to me to be suffering significant emotional trauma, as would be entirely appropriate. I think you are trying to protect yourself emotionally by giving him the benefit of the doubt as you feel that is easier for you to accept but I also think that deep down you know the reality. Please find a way to get to counselling.

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 05/01/2020 16:33

I appreciate what you're saying, TooTrue. But I've never met a man who said, "No thank you, you're drunk and it wouldn't be right." Never. Not once. Not ever in my life.

If all men who have sex with women when they are drunk are rapists then half the country should be in jail.

OP posts:
trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 05/01/2020 16:41

I think perhaps I should bow out of this thread now. I'm angry and upset and have just realised that my last post might be really triggering for someone else. I don't want to upset anyone. I can be really argumentative and obnoxious when I'm upset. I'll try and access counselling, like you say.

OP posts:
TooTrueToBeGood · 05/01/2020 16:50

I appreciate what you're saying, TooTrue. But I've never met a man who said, "No thank you, you're drunk and it wouldn't be right." Never. Not once. Not ever in my life.

I'm not going to argue over that point because it's a distraction. The most important thing is you and your emotional health. From your posts it seems to me that you are in a bad state emotionally. If your attempts at minimising what he did were working I'd keep my nose out but it doesn't seem to me like you are coping. Only you know what's truly going on inside your head though. I've suffered severe emotional trauma and I carried it for over five years before I finally admitted to myself that I needed some kind of help. Counselling almost literally saved my life and having previously been very cynical about that sort of thing I am now very much an advocate. If you work for a large organisation, check to see if they have some kind of employee assistance program as these often include access to counselling (that's how I got mine).

Ruderidinghood · 05/01/2020 18:41

Wow I can't believe how OP is minimising this. "Garden variety emotional abuser". I just cant with this thread anymore.

HairyString · 05/01/2020 20:45

I didn't mean to upset you OP but you said you had a lot more discomfort than you thought you would get from a normal rogering that I thought it wasn't that much of a stretch that he might have drugged you and invited others to have a go at you. I don't think that sounds beyond possible the way you describe him.

There's not a lot you can do. Stay away. Stay sober. Stay away from people you know to be abusive as they get more abusive when you are vulnerable. I have learned this fact to my cost this last few years.

Nondescriptname · 06/01/2020 08:54

Please do try to get counseling, OP.

This is much too big a problem for you to have to rely on random internet strangers.

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