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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

TW Something happened a few weeks ago which I can't make sense of.

96 replies

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 01/01/2020 21:17

Name changed for this post. I apologise, I know it's long but I don't want to leave anything out.

I will start by saying that I have issues with alcohol. I was sober for six years and recently started drinking again (not every day but sometimes bingeing at weekends. I know this needs to stop.)

My return to drinking coincided with beginning a new relationship with someone who also has an issue. However, he is much physically larger than I am and has a far higher tolerance.

I suspected he may possibly be emotionally abusive from the beginning of the relationship - he blew hot and cold, and his love bombing episodes were really over the top, whereas his rejections always seemed designed to humiliate and sting as much as possible. I also noticed things which could have been mistakes but made me wonder if they were in fact done on purpose, for example he said once over messenger that he missed my scent, then posted a fish emoji underneath it. When I asked he said he hadn't a clue how it got there. But I was always unsure if he wasn't trying to get a really unpleasant one over on me. Any attempt to discuss his behaviour with him (re his being hot and cold or any unpleasantness) just always led to him becoming hostile and angry. It got to the point where I'd let things slide.

I'd also been told by a friend that a previous partner of his had rung her ex once and said that she was in the garden shed and could he come round and help her because he (the man I have since been involved with) was being really scary. I know this should have made me run a mile but my friend said this woman was prone to manipulation and dishonesty so she didn't know if it was true.

Anyway, me and this man went out one evening recently and past a certain point my memory goes completely. Earlier in the evening he had asked me how I ever got my jeans up "over that belly" (I'm a size 8 so it's a weird insult to level at me really) and I remember thinking, that's it. This has to be the last time I see this guy. We then went to a different pub and I remember the booze giving me the dutch courage I needed to challenge him on some of the stuff he has said and done.

Now I've had years of problem drinking and I'm no stranger to going into blackout. But usually you get at least a couple of small flashes that help you piece the evening together somehow. Past a certain point in the pub I don't even have those - it's just total memory black out.

This man says I was falling over in the pub and outside where you go to smoke, that I was inappropriately chatting up other men and trying to engage strangers, and that the landlady eventually asked him to get me out of there. He says men were then asking if I was safe to leave with him but that was because I was "putting on a damsel in distress act" which was "pure theatre." I think it's possible they may have been picking up on how unpleasant he can be, but I remember nothing.

All I know is my next memory is of waking up at his the next afternoon covered in bruises. Of course some of those will have been as a result of falling over - my coat and jeans were absolutely filthy and covered in dirt - but he did admit he "may have got a little forceful" - his only admittance to having possibly hurt me. Certainly some of my bruises were consistent with being grabbed and possibly manhandled (smaller bruises to wrists and upper arms.) He also says I slapped him, although he didn't mention this until a couple of weeks after the incident when we had already discussed it a couple of times. I don't know if I did or not because I can't remember anything. I am completely anti violence in relationships and am mortified at the thought that I might have. He also says I called him a cunt (I mean he can be awful tbh) and has tried to make out the entire evening was my fault and that he is blameless.

But the main point of upset for me was waking up on Sunday to realise that my vagina was sore in a way that is consistent with having had a lot of sex. I can remember none of it but can only assume this must have come after we had argued and he had grabbed me. I feel really weird about it. Firstly I can't understand why he would have wanted to have sex with me when he could barely look at me on Sunday evening he was so furious. I also can't understand why I can't remember anything, and so I don't know if I was in a fit state to consent. That is what has left me feeling really terrible. Driving home from his after that weekend I just had a horrible, icky feeling in my stomach. I have tried to explain to him since that not knowing what happened has had a real impact on me but this just makes him furious. I enjoyed sex with him so it's perfectly possible I did consent, but it seems strange under the circumstances and I can't remember. Also I was falling down drunk.

I wasn't going to tell anybody about it because I feel ashamed. But the day before new years I had a few to drink and spilled to a couple of female friends who were very supportive. But I feel terribly anxious now. I can't remember what happened so I've no business really painting him in a negative light. I don't want any rumours to start flying round.

I just feel absolutely dreadful and scared and weird about it all. Would like to feel better. I know stopping drinking again needs to be my first port of call.

OP posts:
Zaphodsotherhead · 02/01/2020 10:05

Don't call yourself an idiot. Don't blame yourself for what happened. You've now done the sensible thing and blocked him, so you've taken positive action.

I'm not sure that your relapse into drinking and meeting this man were co incidental either. Did he push you into drinking or were you starting to drink before you met him? Because he could have orchestrated this entire scenario. Maybe he likes his women blackout drunk because he can do what he likes to them and they have no comeback?

I hope you get help for the drinking again. None of this was your fault.

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 02/01/2020 11:11

Ok, to answer peoples questions

Yes VenusTiger he was drunk too. We were matching eachother drink for drink. However. I'm a small, very slight woman who has only just begun drinking again on the weekends after a period of six years sobriety. He's a much taller, much broader, well built man who has been drinking steadily for years and has a much higher tolerance than me. He remembers what happened, or at least has given me an account of what he says happened. He hasn't told me how we came to be having sex - hasn't said that I came onto him or that it was rough sex or anything like that. Just denied vehemently that he would "perform any acts without consent."

I can't go back to the pub. I'm too mortified. I can't remember what happened but I believe him that my behaviour was probably dreadful. The reason I got sober and stayed that way for so long was because when I lose control over my alcohol consumption, I completely lose control. I do behave dreadfully. A small part of me thought that after six years sober, and having done so much work on myself, that this time could be different; that I might be able to control my drinking better. It isn't different and I can't. Obviously getting sober again has to be my priority for the new year.

But apparently I was falling over all over the place and trying to engage strangers. I was flirting with much younger men and "putting on a damsel in distress act" (I'm not sure exactly what he means by this.) I'm not going back there to speak to anybody - I'm too embarrassed.

Mammyloveswine that is what I have wondered. Tbh the sex was the only thing about our relationship that I really enjoyed towards the end so I have wondered if in blackout I just was up for it. However he hasn't said that, and if he remembered that I think he would have been very keen to tell me. Also the circumstances seem so weird. How did we go from him causing bruising to my wrists and upper arms and me apparently slapping him and calling him a cunt, to having so much sex I was that sore? Why would either of us have wanted to if we were that angry and upset? Also I was falling down, black out drunk.

I don't trust him. I believe he's abusive - certainly emotionally - and I believe this was ramping up and getting worse. Having heard rumours that he may have been physically abusive to a previous partner, I believe he is capable of that too, although he explains away my bruises as him having been a bit forceful removing me from the pub and me "being like an overripe nectarine" (ie bruising very easily.)

The truth is I'm never going to know what happened. I can't remember a thing, I'm not going to the pub or to the police, and he is only interested in painting himself in the best light possible and me in the worst. Typical of him - he's never to blame for anything. In some ways I wish I'd never even let it enter my head that something not right had happened. If I'd just put it down to me being drunk and trusting that he wouldn't do anything dodgy, I could just have moved on, got sober, and got happy again.

As it is this all happened about three weeks ago now and I still feel upset. I can't shake this icky feeling. But then I wonder is that just my own shame at having fucked up so badly again? Am I just obsessing and winding myself up? I wish I hadn't told anybody in real life. There's nothing to be done really except try to forget about it and get on with life.

OP posts:
RickOShay · 02/01/2020 14:46

The shame is NOT yours sweetheart.
It’s all his. Don’t let an abuser take away your self esteem. You are worthy of love. What happened was NOT your fault in ANY way, doesn’t matter how pissed you were, or what you were wearing or saying or doing, you still did NOT deserve what happened to you.
Please think about speaking to somebody about this, don’t carry it with you. Flowers

RebelWithVerySharpClaws · 02/01/2020 15:45

He spiked your drink, beat you and raped you and then took control of the narrative to try to shame you. Contact rape crisis for support, you don't want this nasty man in your head any longer.

aroundtheworldyet · 02/01/2020 16:19

You didn’t really behave that badly. You got too pissed.
Tried to engage with people (standard)

Flirting (standard - though I doubt you were, you were probably just being over friendly)

fell around a bit (happens to lots of people)

couldn’t remember (well not great, but not really all that bad, it does happen)

Got in an argument and called someone a cunt (pretty standard and it was in private)

slapped him (debatable - if you did I can’t imagine it wasn’t unprovoked- not great but not the end of the world)

Nothing you did was that terrible or that shameful. I see people every night pissed and flirting or stumbling. It’s because you cannot remember it that you are probably catastrophising it in your mind.

What he did on the other hand is really horrific.

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 02/01/2020 16:26

I don't believe he spiked my drink. It's not impossible but I just don't believe he would do that.

He didn't beat me up either. I had some injuries consistent with being grabbed and possibly dragged or pushed about a bit. My face and head were injury free. Other injuries were likely from falling or bumping into things.

As for having been raped, I truly think a lot of men don't really understand consent. I don't think he raped me maliciously. I think he probably had sex with me when he shouldn't have, considering my state, but a lot of men think if you're not actively resisting them, or you appear drunkenly up for it, then it's ok.

Yes, he's taken control on the narrative, and he has form for twisting things to be all my fault when it would be clear to anyone else that he has behaved appallingly. I'm never going to know what happened.

I just wanted to be able to talk it through and get some validation as to why I felt so upset and shaken by it all. Maybe I wanted some sympathy. I do actually have friends who work with women who have experienced physical and sexual violence so I do have the option of talking to them.

OP posts:
trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 02/01/2020 16:29

I mean, he can be a nasty fucker. He has said some things that have really floored me with how awful and deliberately damaging they have been. But I find it very hard to believe he's that bad.

OP posts:
aroundtheworldyet · 02/01/2020 16:33

He is that bad.
Is it more that you don’t want to deal with the point that you chose to be with someone who is that bad? Because they are 2 separate issues.

Zaphodsotherhead · 02/01/2020 16:41

He's a much larger man who habitually drinks. He MUST have known that you matching him drink for drink could only end up one way - he didn't need to spike your drink, he only needed to encourage you to keep up, or not actively discourage you from doing it.

RickOShay · 02/01/2020 16:57

Agree with @aroundtheworldyet
He is that bad. The fact he is so bad is NO reflection on you. I have done some amazingly stupid dangerous things and the only reason I haven’t been raped (though I have been sexually assaulted) is that I just had the good luck not to meet a rapist. That’s it. Luck. Certainly not my behaviour.
It doesn’t matter what you did. You did not deserve to be raped. Nobody does.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 02/01/2020 18:16

100% RickoShay.

OP, I'm sorry you went through that. This man is no good, you know as much. Get him out of your life before he harms you some more.Flowers

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 02/01/2020 22:44

He is out of my life. I haven't seen him in weeks and I have no intention of seeing him again. But I feel more upset now than I did after it had just happened.

We were only seeing eachother three months and I did try to end the relationship at least three times in that very short space of time. But I allowed myself to be reeled back in. The truth is I feel quite damaged by this relationship. It is hard to deal with the fact that I didn't get out sooner. I knew it wasn't right from the beginning.

OP posts:
trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 02/01/2020 22:45

I feel quite depressed by it all. As though picking myself back up is taking more energy than I've got.

OP posts:
RickOShay · 03/01/2020 11:57

Try and speak to Rape Crisis @trying2makesenseofwhathappened.
I’m so sorry this happened to you.
It was rape and that is a huge traumatic thing to deal with, and you don’t have to deal with it on your own. When you say he didn’t do it ‘maliciously’ you are minimising your feelings and eroding your sense of self. Nobody has a right to you or your body.
Look after yourself and please speak out.
Flowers

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 03/01/2020 12:12

Oh love, he is that bad. He’s a vile specimen.

I hope you can regain your sobriety and heal from this.

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 03/01/2020 14:11

I cannot know it was rape if I cannot remember though. I might have begged him for sex for all I know?!

Imagine if I went to the police (I'm not going to) to report a rape and it turned out that in fact I had initiated sex?

I feel panicked. You can't go to the police or rape crisis to complain if you don't know. Surely that's completely irresponsible and potentially extremely damaging!!!

OP posts:
trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 03/01/2020 14:17

I feel like I shouldn't even have told people we both know.

OP posts:
PanicAndRun · 03/01/2020 14:21

You can definitely ask for help from rape crisis. You can even ring them when you're not sure,don't remember anything etc. There's no perfect rape scenario criteria. Something happened to you, you're not sure what, but it has affected you..mentally,emotionally and physically. That's what rape crisis is for.

Kerning · 03/01/2020 14:30

Rape Crisis can offer you support to deal with what has happened to you, they're not just there to help you to report to police. Although they will support women who wish to report their assault to the police, the will not pressure you to do this.

You've come here to talk through what happened to you - and I hope it's been helpful - but talking to a professional who has experience in helping women in these situations would surely be more beneficial. Please consider it.

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 03/01/2020 14:32

It certainly has affected me. It happened before Christmas and tbh, I just kind of ploughed through until now because you can't cancel Christmas and all the shopping, cooking etc is on me. So I got my head down and did it.

Since I told my real life friends the other day though, I've felt terrible. Really panicky, really anxious. I'm obsessing over what happened. Really dwelling. I wish I could just forget it and move on.

OP posts:
Perid0t · 03/01/2020 14:37

He raped you OP. Never see this man again.

PanicAndRun · 03/01/2020 14:45

Because up until then you could bury your head in the sand,minimise it , in a certain way control it and leave rape as a very unlikely possibility.

Whereas now you have to come to terms with the fact that it is very unlikely you weren't raped, which is awful position to be in.

MyMajesty · 03/01/2020 15:31

You only have his word for how awful you maybe were at the pub.
In any case, they must see that sort of stuff all the time so don't feel bad about it.

trying2makesenseofwhathappened · 04/01/2020 15:12

Just thought I'd let everyone who took the time to try to help me on this thread know that I did phone rape crisis today.

The woman I spoke to was lovely, pragmatic, and very clear that what happened to me was was illegal and that there is no way I had capacity to consent in the state that I was in. She was also able to reassure me that some of the feelings and thoughts I've had in response to what happened are actually very common. I'm glad I phoned.

Thanks.

OP posts:
PanicAndRun · 04/01/2020 15:13

I'm glad you phoned too . Probably what you needed to hear. Keep talking and asking for help. You deserve it.Thanks

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