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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How to talk to dh about drink & respect

69 replies

TheDuckSaysMoo · 30/12/2019 01:06

Married over 10 years with a couple of kids and I'm really struggling with how my dh talks to me and his drinking. It has come to a head many times over the years but I've always shied away from tackling it as I hate confrontation and he's useless at receiving any criticism (he immediately catastrophises and blames me for things he has been sitting on too, which could be perfectly valid). It leads to a massive blow out with tears and no real talking or therefore resolution and is then dropped by both of us by the next day.

Anyway, I've written the note below and wanted views. Does it make sense? Should I just send it, read it to him, neither? FWIW he does pull his weight but makes me feel guilty if I'm not constantly busy. We both work full time. He drinks about 5 bottles of wine a week. His father was a violent alcoholic. His mother and one sibling are alcoholics. Am I being ott with the alcoholic label?

"You criticize me constantly. Nothing I do is good enough. I feel guilty if I sit down for 10 minutes at the weekend - even if that is to eat lunch. I spend all my time at home during they day cooking, cleaning, laundry, doing the majority of our family admin or playing with dc. Then you come home and tell me I'm lazy. I cant live that way anymore - constant judgement.

I'm exhausted by night. But then I cant sleep. I'm awake from 2 - 4 or 3-5 most nights, sometimes longer. Sometimes it's just menopause but most nights I'm woken with you breathing alcohol on me then I lie there worried about your drinking and how it affects your health, and the mental health of me and the kids. Will they be alcoholics? The family curse? Dc1 notices and asks me about it. He tells me he hates it. I assume he sees you drinking on a friday and Saturday night. Dc2 won't be far behind in noticing.

The mood swings (are they a side effect?) are very hard for all three of us to deal with. The anger and sulking - both dc ask about this and I really struggle with what to say and how to protect them. Is it a learned behaviour from your childhood? You tell me I spend too much time on the phone yet you spend all your time glued to the mac or your phone. What am I supposed to do?

I'm not perfect by any means and I am aware the above is my one sided view of the world but it's my reality. I'm willing to hear yours and see how we can move forward but I cant keep going on like this. The last 3 days have been unbearable torture - constant micro aggressions - and I have done nothing to deserve this treatment.
"

OP posts:
GiveHerHellFromUs · 30/12/2019 01:31

I'd suggest taking the kids out for the morning and let him know you've left a note for him because you're finding it hard to have a productive conversation. Ask him to read the note and you'll talk to him properly when the kids are in bed.

TheDuckSaysMoo · 30/12/2019 01:34

Thanks - that's a good idea. Are the words above clear enough?

OP posts:
Isadora2007 · 30/12/2019 01:35

God no. Please don’t leave that note.

Isadora2007 · 30/12/2019 01:36

I’m trying to be kind but you say he doesn’t take criticism well then write a “note” full of nothing BUT criticism. And if you don’t do confrontation well- I’m not sure what you’re expecting from the note.

Sushiroller · 30/12/2019 01:44

He sounds horrendous and the marriage sounds like it's in bad shape butttt...
The note is an awful idea.

If your heart is set on sending it the Always / Never stuff needs to go.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 30/12/2019 01:44

I personally think the notes fine because there's no point sugar coating what needs to be said just because he can't handle emotion.

Isadora2007 · 30/12/2019 01:47

Okay. Working backwards from your note I’d change your message to something more like this.

Dear husband. I am writing to try to open up our communication. I realise this is going to be a one sided view of my reality but I'm willing to hear yours and see how we can move forward. To put it bluntly I am very worried about your drinking and how it affects your health, and the mental health of me and the kids. I feel like I am always being
criticized and that nothing I do is good enough. It seems to me that I spend all my time at home during the day cooking, cleaning, laundry, doing the majority of our family admin or playing with dc but when you come home you think I have been lazy?

I'm worried about the amount you drink and how the children are noticing. Dc1 notices and asks me about it. He tells me he hates it. I assume he sees you drinking on a friday and Saturday night. Dc2 won't be far behind in noticing. You know how alcohol has impacted on your life growing up and I know we don’t want that for our children and our lives.

Recently I feel that your mood is very unstable and I don’t know whether we will be seeing anger or If you will give us the silent treatment. I find this very difficult and so do the children. I’m not sure what you want from us at these times. Is it a learned behaviour from your childhood? You tell me I spend too much time on the phone yet it appears that you spend all your time glued to the mac or your phone.

I Know we are both busy and I know that you pull your weight in the home and I don’t want you to feel like I am trying to get at you. But I also know I’d like things to change

Then say what you’d like and use I and Is and not You...

TheDuckSaysMoo · 30/12/2019 01:52

If I don't leave that note then what do I do? I feel incapable of taking a step forward - strangely paralysed. I love him dearly and I want us to get better. He had a messed up start in life.

OP posts:
Jenjary1000 · 30/12/2019 02:03

Bit harsh my guy likes a drink

TheDuckSaysMoo · 30/12/2019 02:09

Thanks Isadora. That's much clearer and seems fairer somehow.

Jen which bit is harsh? Is it the alcoholic label for 5 bottles a week? I wonder that too but his background worries me and no matter the label it is way too much to be healthy.

OP posts:
Isadora2007 · 30/12/2019 02:13

@Theducksaysmoo

Good luck. Flowers

Hidingtonothing · 30/12/2019 03:29

Have you been in touch with AlAnon at all OP? A lot of what you've posted would be very familiar to the folk there and they could help you figure out the best strategy for you and DC. I wouldn't leave the note for now, get some support and knowledgeable advice in place first so you stand the best chance of getting the outcome you want. Good luck Flowers

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 30/12/2019 04:09

When opening a constructive communication with someone, there are words you want to stay away from because they paint a false picture of reality which then triggers a defensive outburst from the other party.

"Constantly" - replace with "repeatedly" or "often"
"You never do this" - rephrase as "I feel very unheard when you don't do this, for example last week when XYZ [factual, unemotional recounting]
"You always do this" - as above but the mirror image

It's worth discussing counselling with him, but if he doesn't perceive his drinking as a problem, it's unlikely to do much good and you'd probably be better off seeking to leave for the sake of your DCs if not your own.

Vafanculo · 30/12/2019 04:20

5 bottles of wine a week for a man is barely outside the recommended limits set by WHO for men. He is far from an alcoholic or even being alcohol dependent (alcohol dependency is classed as 12 units a day). It's less than a bottle of wine a night. A man is RECOMMENDED to have 3-4 units a day, so assuming 4 units x 7 = 28. He's having about 50 units a week. Honestly, it's not a big deal. I know people who would drink that amount over a night or two, let alone a week. They're still high functioning normal members of society.

His mood swings at that level of drinking would have little to do with alcohol.

His criticism of you being lazy is something I'd address. Tell him to sod off.

Vafanculo · 30/12/2019 04:25

You seem to be blaming all of his behaviour on alcohol, where really I would say it has little to do with him being an arsehole constantly.
Time for you to buck up your own self esteem and tell him to get up off his hole himself if there's something to be done.

Vafanculo · 30/12/2019 04:26

Also, blaming him for your dc potentially becoming future alcoholics with the family curse is actually quite abusive. I'd probably dump you for that alone.

Dogno1 · 30/12/2019 05:35

You've been married 10yrs, if you can't talk to him then maybe you should ask yourself what's the point? Most adults can have a discussion (even if they don't like the topic), without it resulting in tears and huffing. If it comes to a divorce will you tell him via letter?

FineWordsForAPorcupine · 30/12/2019 08:34

A man is RECOMMENDED to have 3-4 units a day

This is categorically not true, @Vafanculo. This used to be the maximum amount an average male should drink, not the recommended amount. In fact, now the guide lines are 14 units a week, with a recommended amount of zero. The NHS no longer suggests that even moderate drinking is good for you.

AfterSchoolWorry · 30/12/2019 08:43

FineWordsForAPorcupine is correct.

Vafanculo · 30/12/2019 08:45

The RECOMMENDED MAXIMUM. Recommended is the word here.

I'm recommended to eat 5 a day.

I'm recommended to get 20 minutes exercise a day

I'm recommended to consume 1500 calories a day

I'm recommended to drink a glass of wine if I'm having anything

My point is that what's RECOMMENDED is rarely what people do.

Vafanculo · 30/12/2019 08:47

My point is, that his alcohol consumption is nothing really. Ok, to a teetotaller it might be, but it's not at a level that would be causing behavioural issues due to drunken behaviour or withdrawals. It's just not.

Vafanculo · 30/12/2019 08:49

I'm not an idiot. I never suggested the WHO suggested we should all be drinking to their guidelines daily lol

Vafanculo · 30/12/2019 08:51

The OP however is focusing on his alcohol consumption. She should really be focusing on the fact that he's calling her lazy and that she can't sit down for a minute. Alcohol has nothing to do with this OP's issues.

FineWordsForAPorcupine · 30/12/2019 08:55

I 'm recommended to eat 5 a day
i' m recommended to get 20 minutes exercise a day
I'm recommended to consume 1500 calories a day

Yes, but you aren't recommend to drink 3-4 units a day! You are recommended to drink no more than 14 units per week, with an ideal amount of none.

You original post made it sound as though men SHOULD be drinking 3-4 units a day, and then went on to say that 50 units a week (almost three times the maximum amount) wasn't that much!

Look, it may be extremely usual and "normal" to drink way more than the safe amounts, but that doesn't make it healthy or good, or mean that an individual doesn't have a problem with alcohol. It just means that loads of people have a problem with alcohol.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 30/12/2019 08:55

TheDucksaysmoo

What do you get out of this relationship now?. What is still in this for you exactly?.

What did you learn about relationships yourself when you were growing up?. Are you acting out the role of codependent here?.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and just what are they learning here from the two of you?. Ok so in your words, "I love him dearly and I want us to get better. He had a messed up start in life" are very noble and all that but HE has to be the one who decides to change his life, not you. There is no "us" here and trying to love him better won't work either. You cannot fix him, save him or rescue him and trying to do so other than not work will also destroy you and your kids in the process. What you have tried to date has not worked and this note will not work either.

Your children are already being profoundly affected by what is happening within their home (as you are also) and you are not protecting them fully from all this. Whilst you and he remain under the same roof you cannot fully protect your children.

Have you ever considered divorce here?.

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