How to talk to dh about drink & respect

[TheDuckSaysMoo]

Married over 10 years with a couple of kids and I'm really struggling with how my dh talks to me and his drinking. It has come to a head many times over the years but I've always shied away from tackling it as I hate confrontation and he's useless at receiving any criticism (he immediately catastrophises and blames me for things he has been sitting on too, which could be perfectly valid). It leads to a massive blow out with tears and no real talking or therefore resolution and is then dropped by both of us by the next day.

Anyway, I've written the note below and wanted views. Does it make sense? Should I just send it, read it to him, neither? FWIW he does pull his weight but makes me feel guilty if I'm not constantly busy. We both work full time. He drinks about 5 bottles of wine a week. His father was a violent alcoholic. His mother and one sibling are alcoholics. Am I being ott with the alcoholic label?

"You criticize me constantly. Nothing I do is good enough. I feel guilty if I sit down for 10 minutes at the weekend - even if that is to eat lunch. I spend all my time at home during they day cooking, cleaning, laundry, doing the majority of our family admin or playing with dc. Then you come home and tell me I'm lazy. I cant live that way anymore - constant judgement.

I'm exhausted by night. But then I cant sleep. I'm awake from 2 - 4 or 3-5 most nights, sometimes longer. Sometimes it's just menopause but most nights I'm woken with you breathing alcohol on me then I lie there worried about your drinking and how it affects your health, and the mental health of me and the kids. Will they be alcoholics? The family curse? Dc1 notices and asks me about it. He tells me he hates it. I assume he sees you drinking on a friday and Saturday night. Dc2 won't be far behind in noticing.

The mood swings (are they a side effect?) are very hard for all three of us to deal with. The anger and sulking - both dc ask about this and I really struggle with what to say and how to protect them. Is it a learned behaviour from your childhood? You tell me I spend too much time on the phone yet you spend all your time glued to the mac or your phone. What am I supposed to do?

I'm not perfect by any means and I am aware the above is my one sided view of the world but it's my reality. I'm willing to hear yours and see how we can move forward but I cant keep going on like this. The last 3 days have been unbearable torture - constant micro aggressions - and I have done nothing to deserve this treatment.
"

Well somebody is defending the use of alcohol rather strongly.

The note will not help, sorry op.
I'd be writing a shorter one like above, saying things are not working and until he is open to calm discussion and change you will separate.

My DH used to do the weekend binge drinking as well. It’s a double insult to you and the DCs because he chooses to give his all to his colleagues by not being hungover during the week - but is happy to inflict this behaviour on family time at the weekend.

I tried too hard for far too long. I turned into an exhausted, nagging, angry, bitter wife - but he didn’t see this or care as he was numb through drink or asleep/detached hungover. My you children though did see and hear my distress and anger - they absorbed it. I bitterly regret what I became and that it hurt the DCs.
I ended up v v depressed - I had to ask him to leave as I thought I would literally die or implode from the stress and exhaustion.

He did. We separated. I found my energy and focus and coped brilliantly with the children.

He ended up in shock (eventually), sorted himself out both mentally and physically. Is teetotal and sees a psychotherapist. He has emotionally grown and we got back together. Both his parents were also alcoholics - he could admit that as they were both “worse than him” (they were) so he couldn’t put himself in their league with the label of alcoholic. Closest he came was “binge drinker” - he seems to think that was acceptable. I wasted years and years trying to get him to see the light. It was futile and I and the kids got damaged in the process.

I tried too hard, for too long and now realise that I was enabling as there were no consequences for him for his alcoholic behaviour. I wish I had looked at myself and not allowed myself to deteriorate and got him out sooner. That was the only chance it had of changing. We were lucky he changed. He now refers to himself as an alcoholic and his life is infinitely happier - he also says getting sober and staying sober has been much easier than he thought. My regret is that there was too much unnecessary hurt and damage along the way. Our lives now are about being v open about the issues to our DC and v focused on proactively repair emotional injury - if we can.

I didn’t leave earlier because I didn’t want my DCs to have to visit their sad dad living in alcoholic squalor in a dirty little flat. But MNers pointed out the alternative which was that they would have their sad dad living in alcoholic squalor in their own home. That was a lightbulb moment for me.

There are three things really:

1. He’s nasty to you calling you lazy when you’re anything but
2. You worry he drinks too much
3. You’re suffering with insomnia

They are all related obviously but number 2 only he can decide whether he wants to address. And no 3 he can easily say is your problem not his.

Personally I’d start with focussing on him calling you lazy when you are anything but. If you want to write him a note tell him you feel exhausted and unappreciated and that you ARE entitled to some down time and that you both work full time so should be equally entitled to rest.

As a PP said you should probably contact Alanon about the drinking. You can’t make him stop unfortunately:(

I know several alcoholics (family gene thing) but they are the more obvious types. All I think use it to self medicate for depression or anxiety. I would not focus on the alcohol consumption initially but on the behaviours you see and experience. Technically he may well be an alcoholic but he won't see it like that because he is not drinking like his family members and society in general would not see his consumption as problematic. This will lead him to think that you are deliberately trying to hurt him and it will lead to an argument similar to the one you see on this thread with him arguing that he is drinking a normal amount and you won't focus on the behaviours. Would you be having the conversation about his drinking if he was lovely to you?

Thank you all for your responses. Attila and Gutterton - you've hit the nail on the head but I can't stress enough that this is low level stuff. While it is abusive it is nothing compared to what I read on here and I feel loved. Perhaps I'm kidding myself.

My natural state is passive aggressive so it is good to be reminded of that danger. I'm also really blunt in how I come across sometimes (sorry if that has happened here). I often ask dh to read texts before I send them .

The al anon recommendations are quite terrifying - a bit of a wake up call perhaps. I know I can't change his drinking unfortunately. Counselling does sound like a good idea. It could let us both say what we want without it getting too one sided or stopped in its tracks.

I dont think I should separate his drinking from his other behaviours. I do believe they are linked. I think he feels a lot of guilt from drinking and he projects this through his behaviour.

What I'd love to do is pick him up from work, go for dinner without kids and have a 'we both need to change' talk like grown ups and for it all to magically get better

Interesting that you think he is aware perhaps that his drinking is an issue. In the scenario you describe where you have the chat I would still lead with the behaviours and then introduce the drinking as a possible cause.

Sorry Attila I didn't answer any of your questions. I did answer them internally though . I have considered divorce but I believe that this marriage deserves a bit of work before we get there. I do get a lot out of our relationship - possibly through co-dependance. I think I need to research that some more. DH is a loving, caring person 99% of the time. He is thoughtful and fun. We both love music, movies, reading, art. We share the same dreams and values.

The learned behaviours I have from my parents is to bury problems deep inside and never argue. If you do argue make sure everything buried away comes out in one long scream of nonsensical crap helping noone. I learnt well and practice daily . Oh and perfectionism is great. A good combination for healthy adult life - no?

Hi OP it seems like you do all the work and he is able to make you feel guilty when you rest. Have a look at FOG - fear, obligation and guilt.
I’m wondering what type of childhood you had.
He is drinking and understandably your worried given his history.
Sadly you have no control over this.
I think it’s best if you can seek your own independent therapy to look at yourself and why you respond to him the way you do.
Good luck.

Re read your OP and the letter. None of that is “low level stuff”.

You are minimising as you don’t like confrontation.

Al anon is not extreme or far fetched. It is for you to attend - or interact with online - to help YOU cope.

You have tolerated an awful lot to date. You have raised it with him continuously. But there are never any consequences - apart from the shouting and crying which he blanks out.

What are your boundaries and red lines once you meet for dinner and he doesn’t change?

Do you have any red lines for your DCs?

Al anon help you to cope with the alcoholic by “detaching with love” - this gives you back your life so that you can have energy to focus on your DCs.

He is thoughtful and fun. We share the same dreams and values.

That's not what your letter says.

Gutterton you are the ghosts of Christmas present and future I fear. I'm sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like you dealt with it admirably.

Jewel - I like that idea. Talk about the behaviours first. I would want to talk to him about his drinking even if he was the nicest guy in the world as he is damaging his health.

I don't know what my red lines are other than violence but that's never been a concern. I know that if the last 4 days were indicative of my normal life I would ask him to go. He seems to have bundled up months of criticism and sulking and unloaded it at once. I wonder if something has happened with his family that he hasn't told me about.

I know I am a founding confrontation and reality. Thank you for reminding me. It helps to be told.

My upbringing was boringly normal. Two happily married parents and nice siblings in suburbia. Just enough cash to get by without too much stress. Happy grandparents in the countryside with lots of outdoors time.

Moo

re your comment to me in quotemarks:-

"Sorry Attila I didn't answer any of your questions. I did answer them internally though . I have considered divorce but I believe that this marriage deserves a bit of work before we get there. I do get a lot out of our relationship - possibly through co-dependance. I think I need to research that some more. DH is a loving, caring person 99% of the time. He is thoughtful and fun. We both love music, movies, reading, art. We share the same dreams and values."

Just how also did you arrive at a figure of 99% for him?. Is this really you putting a gloss on things along with denial at how bad things really are in your home?. I reckon your kids would not say he is 99% ok/loving or caring most of the time. What are they seeing through their eyes?. And no, you do not share the same dreams and values at all; his dream and values here involve drink and where the next drink is going to come from.

How much more work (years) are you willing or going to sink into this?. The sunken costs fallacy springs to mind here. You're basically moving the deckchairs around on the sinking ship by doing what you are doing now. He is both abusive and a drunkard of a man and he came from a family where alcoholism is rife, did you think he could change or you could love him better?. Wrong on both counts.

and re this comment:-
"The learned behaviours I have from my parents is to bury problems deep inside and never argue. If you do argue make sure everything buried away comes out in one long scream of nonsensical crap helping noone. I learnt well and practice daily . Oh and perfectionism
is great. A good combination for healthy adult life - no?"

No. Its a mess but I think you know this. Your upbringing it could be argued was emotionally neglectful. Your parents sadly taught you a lot of damaging lessons about relationships not least of all how to be codependent in such. Perfectionism is another undesireable trait and you cannot stand confrontation (so you are really unable to stand up for yourself here), the seeds for all that were sown years ago. These lessons from your parents has not done you any favours at all and these have played a huge role in you being with this man at all now.

You have a choice here re this man; your children do not.
What do you want to teach your children about relationships?. Will they merely go onto repeat the same old crap lessons about relationships that you as their parents are showing them now?. They could well do so sadly. You and they deserve better.

Do go to Al-anon meetings.

If you embark on counselling I would do so on your own. He should not be present in those sessions. Joint counselling too is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship and his sulking at you is a form of emotional abuse.

I think it is only when you are fully out of this altogether will you perhaps realise the extent to which you (and in turn your kids) have been abused here.

Thanks again for your messages. I've thought a lot today and I'm going to talk to dh about some specific things he has said over the last 4 days and how they made me feel. I'll steer clear of any alcohol chat for now. I'm going to start the conversation with the recognition that I'm not great in these types of chats and if I can't say what I want to I'll write it down. I'll use lots of "I feel" rather than "you always".

I don't expect this to stop overnight - habits are hard to break - but I will make sure we agree on how to deal with a recurrence.
My red line is that if he continues to speak to me that way without recognition that it hurts me and an apology when it happens then we'll separate.

I'm also going to go to al anon. I've listened to a few of their podcasts and I recognise myself. They (and you) helped me come up with the above approach.

I want to do it tonight but it's subject to kids giving us space (and me being brave).

Here for handholding should you need it TheDuckSaysMoo, good luck

Good luck Duck - you have made some important decisions that will make a your life a lot better - whether your DH engages right now at this time or later.

Guidelines in AU have just changed to no more than 10 standard drinks in a week.

5 bottles of wine a week is excessive. I bottle of white wine is 6.8 standard drinks as seen here:

www.health.gov.au/health-topics/alcohol/about-alcohol/standard-drinks-guide

I'm not aware that UK bodies metabolize alcohol any differently to AU bodies.

Gonna read through the thread before I give specific advice, OP.

OK. My advice.

Al Anon, if you can.
Your own individual therapy.
Never have any kind of discussion with him when intoxicated. Only do sober conversations. Write down any agreed behaviours and get him to witness the written agreement while sober.
Get yourself in a decent financial position.

Good luck!