Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How could I not see this?

152 replies

Wtfareyou · 25/12/2019 01:57

Hi there,

I am a new poster and looking for some support or words of wisdom as my head is fried from a situation I have found myself in. I'll try to explain as well as I can

I moved to another country on a secondment for a year and am now half way through. I have a great friend who I met through the organisation we both work for, although we dont work directly with one another. He lives in the city where I have been seconded to, and he and his partner have been so hospitable and helpful with my transition here. As it is so far from home he invited me to spend Christmas with his extended family in a much more remote part of the country, a few hours by plane. The is a very beautiful place and it was very kind of him to include me. I am there now.

Now, prior to me even coming to the country my friend (let's call him James) would often mention that he thought his youngest brother (let's call him Jack) and I would be great together, even if just for some fun. We have both been single for a while, mid thirties, quite driven when it comes to our careers and not necessarily looking for a relationship but also not entirely opposed to the idea. He lives in this remote location, and I got to meet him twice a few months ago when he was visiting family in the city I'm based. We had a great night out with James, and had another evening out, after which Jack and I got together. All good, we clearly fancy each other and have a good laugh together. He goes back to his remote town and I don't think too much about it. A week or so later he starts texting me about an international sporting tournament we are both following, and there's lots of banter about this, all good. I quite like him but am wary of getting to invested. Our texts start becoming more frequent and some sexting also starts. Again all good, it's super hot, fun etc. I tell him James has invited me for Christmas and does he mind, check with James too that it's definitely okay with everyone. But yes, all good, of course, more fun.

I really look forward to hearing from him, the texts become more frequently, daily in fact. And we start to talk about more personal things, call each other cute little names. He sends me good night texts. He generally starts the conversations each day, and talks about how excited he is to see me, what he'll be cooking etc. If anything I start feeling a bit overwhelmed with the amount of communication as I'm busy and have lots to do with work and life. But figure it's better he's so enthusiastic than the other way round since I'm going to a completely new place with all his family We have a couple of tipsy phone calls not long before I'm due to arrive and loads of texts about how excited he is.

James, his partner and some other family aren't arriving until Christmas eve, but I have the time to go a few days early and spend some time seeing the beautiful surrounding area and generally chill out. Jack says that he will pick me up from airport and will take me to see and do all this great stuff. I'm staying in a hotel nearby, and so is James and his partner once they arrive, as there will be other family at Jack's from Christmas eve onwards.

I get there, very excited and kind of nervous. He meets me, we're both a little bashful but start chatting, he takes me to my hotel. We go for some food, few drinks. Enjoy the hotel facilities, chat away for hours. He seems a bit shy for all his sexy texts, but that's all fine. He's fairly blokey and a bit rough round the edges you might say but we have similar views on some things and both work with marginalised groups. We hook up, fall asleep, all good. Though I notice he doesn't like to be close in bed, all fine.

Next morning I'm awake early, he likes his sleep. Once he is waking up we're chatting a bit about the day ahead. I'm horny, after all this time I was hoping for lots of hot sex but he's clearly not up for it, not responding to any advances by me. Ok, maybe not a morning person. We have all these plans so he gets up, heads home to change etc and will pick me up asap, which he does. We're on a long drive, I'm happy enough. Spend the day doing stuff. He seems standoffish, even though he's spending all this time with me and going out to dinner etc. He starts saying I'm slamming the car door a bit hard, and to stop 'staring' at him. I'm just looking at him when I'm talking to him etc in the car. I start feeling quote homesick and a bit vulnerable somehow. Perhaps I become a little quiet, but I'm also enjoying the beautiful scenery as we drive. He starts making comments about me sulking or having no chat, and then when I try to start conversation he'll make a sarcastic comment that shuts down what I'm saying. Or when I respond to something he says or asks he'll say 'I didn't ask for an essay' or 'didn't want your life story'. It's starting to make me feel shit and I feel tearful, wondering how I should act to make things go smoothly. Sometimes I don't quite hear what he says as he speaks quickly or under his breath, or not looking at me, and then gets rolls his eyes when I ask him to repeat himself. When I say oh ok sorry or whatever he then says something like 'oh lighten up I'm just joking, jeez you're hard work' or something like that. He kind of snaps at me once or twice.

I'm feeling awful by this point but he still seems to want to spend all this time, makes plans to watch a movie at his, still no physical touching at all, not even much eye contact. We go back to my hotel for dinner, some wine. After this we are relaxing on my balcony area and I want to figure out what's going on, so I ask him if I've done something wrong, as he seems very different to his text messages and I'm feeling a bit flummoxed by the whole thing. He immediately gets aggressive, says I'm criticising him, he's been a gentleman taking me everywhere spending time with me even opening doors Hmm. When I ask about the whole lack of intimacy he says he 'doesn't do affection or feelings' that what you see is what you get with him. That he doesn't do relationships because it's always this sort of shit with women. I say it's important to communicate about whatever is going on, and I'm not criticising I'm trying to understand him and where he's at, and Im just asking for the same consideration. He completely shuts me down, says nope, not happening. I even get visibly upset trying to explain how I feel, and being homesick and vulnerable as my dad isn't well etc. About which he was so sweet and kind in messages before I came. He won't have any of it. Says he does listen what more do I want. This is all very aggressively said all whole refusing to even look at me. I'm flabbergasted. Manage to start talking about something else. To be honest I want to bolt, but am essentially trapped in this remote area with him as my only transport. I figure it's best to try and carry on as normal as I actually feel a bit afraid of him. Also my friend arrives in a couple of days and I don't want to create any drama or be labelled difficult.

We carry on the night as if nothing happened. I even sleep with him again though it feels as if it's to keep the peace or something. I hope that maybe tomorrow will be a bit better, but know it won't. Odd thing is he is still making all these plans and I'm not away from him for more than an hour, when he goes home to feed the dog and change before another day trip. Why not just leave me to it? I also feel I can't ask to have some time along as that will be seen as being precious or moody or ungrateful, and I'll be punished somehow. Which is definitely what it feels like for trying to have an open honest conversation.

Maybe I should mention I'm well educated and speak and dress fairly nicely I suppose, unlike him perhaps. I couldn't care less what someone's background is, just whether they are a good person. There have been a few words I've used he has not understood and immediately just calls me posh and takes the piss etc.

So as you can imagine the next day was worse still. Everything I said he shit down or took the piss out, all u derived the guise of joking around. And when I went quiet or said something about the weather or being tired or whatever he would say 'oh is that you whinging again'. Yet won't leave to be on my own. Honestly, it's so exhausting and upsetting. I've never experienced behaviour like this before. I could go on with the rest but right now I'm just so shocked and sad.

Because the rest of the family has arrived I'm finally now on my own in the hotel for a bit so can regroup a bit.

Please can someone help me figure or what the hell is happening? Or just some kind words of support from someone who understands this?

OP posts:
Wtfareyou · 26/12/2019 02:50

Hi all. Your kind words and support really are helping so much. I had actually started wavering a bit last night at the end of Christmas day thinking 'oh, tomorrow won't be that bad, I don't want to let down James and his partner or miss out on the beautiful scenery...its only one more day, I can avoid Jack as much as possible and I don't want to make a fuss or make James feel bad'.

I woke early and in the cold light of day and after being on my own I knew I just couldn't do it. My mum is amazing and I have been on the phone to her for hours. When I started telling her all the things that had been happening I just broke down in sobs. The coldness, the aggressive outburst when I dared to try and challenge him over his behaviour, have an adult conversation about what was going on, and explain how I felt. All the put downs and cutting me off whenever I said anything, then the digs about being a misery guts with nothing to say when he's doing so much for me... snapping at me when I ask him to repeat himself, trying to make myself as small and passive and insignificant as possible, alone with him cooking in his kitchen on Christmas eve...afraid d to ask where anything is or make conversation as I get told off and to get on with it, or made to feel I'm asking a ridiculous question. All just 'banter' of course. Well she said this was abuse and controlling, and that I'm smart enough to have very quickly understood how to adapt to survive. She made me promise to get the hell out and seconds all the wise words from you lovely people. I wasn't thinking about tonight once we get back, which would be my last night...he might be expecting to come to my hotel room to dtd. Based on comments he made yesterday about wearing the 'wrong' dress and wanting to see me in something sexier I wouldn't be surprised. The thought made me so anxious. So no, I just can't risk that or have my mum so worried now either. Phew... the kindness of strangers has brought me to tears it means so much.

So I'm going today. I sent a nice message to James saying I'm not well, I'm sorry I can't make it and will see them later. He asked was there anything he could do a. So if I changed my mind to let him know. I think he knows something is up. For self preservation I have played the homesickness card a little and said a family member is ill, and whilst true that is not what the real issue is. I just need a cover for why I'm being so unlike myself as I don't want to ruin James Christmas or make it about me. But I do think he knows it might be to do with Jack. He was watching me yesterday and could see how I behaved when he was around I think. But I don't have the energy to deal with an explaination now. I just want to get out. On my mother's advice I also sent a brief straightforward message to Jack saying I wasn't well and will catch them all later. Again, self preservation as I don't want to show him up and give him ammunition just yet by cutting him off, and making things awkward by making James the messenger. Not before I am safely out of here. Straight away he got back saying oh that's no good, rest up and that they should be able to get a refund for my ticket. Then a few minutes later another one saying 'hopefully it wasn't my food...or me that mad you not well'... Then the best part of an hour later another' Cancellation was all good they just charged a 20 dollar cancellation fee so mum will give you your money back 🙂... take care today try get some sleep'.

Wtf? How can he be such a different person over texts? I didn't respond to any of these.

I plan on sending James another message either before or after my flight this afternoon saying I've gone, was able to change my flight and need to get back for some reason or another. My flight leaves a few hours before they will be back, and I'll be landing around there arrival back.

OP posts:
astrogirl99 · 26/12/2019 02:50

Hi OP, so sorry to hear you've been through such a shitty experience! Good on you for getting out of there! :) And remember, it's not you, it's HIM!

Agree with above poster that the comments about Australian men - and someone's mention of the ME - here are frankly, pretty disgusting.

Since when do we write off an entire nationality due to the bad behaviour of individuals?

I think anyone with a bit of travel experience and education can find issues with 'backward' views in any part of the world, particularly in rural and remote areas which tend to be less socially progressive.

I met plenty of nasty, misogynistic men while living in the UK - PLENTY - as have many women in both the UK and wherever else in the world they see fit to settle without the locals' permission.

Does the fact that most threads on here complaining about shitty male behaviour seem to come from urban areas in the UK, mean we should write off all men in London or Leeds as being misogynistic, rude and ignorant?

Hmm, me detects a little leftover British-empire superiority complex.

To bring it back to your dilemma OP - trust me, there are plenty of lovely, educated men here in Perth. As there are all over Australia. Send me a message if you need introductions to some! And hope you have a nice summer here in WA. XX

Wtfareyou · 26/12/2019 02:55

*their. Sorry posted a bit soon. Should I wait til landing? Am afraid I'll ruin end of the trip if I text James whilst they are away. And I'm not sure what to do about Jack. I feel like I am going mad when I see his messages compared to him in person. Should I send a final text about having to go thanks for dinner to keep things civil, or just never respond again?

OP posts:
astrogirl99 · 26/12/2019 03:03

Block Jack. You don't owe him any more of your energy. You are a reasonable person dealing with an unreasonable situation, so just stop engaging.
It is obviously complicated by the fact you are working with his brother. It might be an idea to take a step back from that relationship a bit - while keeping it friendly and professional. No need to tell him any information about what happened with his brother, your feelings about that. It's not his business anyway.

Hopefully you an move on to a happy New Years Eve, far, far away from that psycho!

Well done for maintaining your dignity and taking control of the situation. x

astrogirl99 · 26/12/2019 03:05

Right, because reality shows are an excellent gauge of reality.
SMH this thread is so offensive.

astrogirl99 · 26/12/2019 03:07

Sorry OP, this one not directed at you, but those upstream making idiotic comments about 'what Australian men are like.'

stanski · 26/12/2019 03:26

RTFT wow. I wouldn't text until you are safely out of there. Then block Jack.

IndieTara · 26/12/2019 03:34

Op stop over thinking, you owe Jack no explanation, or James either tbh, you're doing the right thing by leaving

HowDoYouLikeThoseSuedeApples · 26/12/2019 03:34

Yes wait til you land in Perth.

HowDoYouLikeThoseSuedeApples · 26/12/2019 03:40

Do you have James on a find my friends type app ? I think I might turn off location til on the plane if so.

Mummaofmytribe · 26/12/2019 03:43

Hello love, I'm in Oz too. Get on the plane. Only then, txt James to say you've left with whatever reason you feel like giving at this stage and block Jack. Do both these things once you're safely onboard.
What a crap experience, must've really shaken you up. You've done really well. Made a solid plan and sought support.
Get packed, get to the airport.
Not a backward glance!.
You can decide how to deal with James once you're safely away and gave had time to think. At the moment just concentrate on yourself.
And let your mum know when you've landed in Perth!
What a bloody Christmas. Horrible man.

MadamBatty · 26/12/2019 03:52

You’re doing the right thing

I believe that James knows what his brother is like. He should have warned you. Not a good friend

sparkly40 · 26/12/2019 04:34

Text when you're on the planes and be honest you might be doing some girl a
Favour in the future x

Pinkbonbon · 26/12/2019 04:52

Block jack. Never text him again. His nicey-nice texts are part of gas lighting behaviour. He is attempting to fuck with your mind and your resolve. You saw the real him in person and you know he is a cad so don't doubt yourself.

I would hold off on texting James until you are home. I agree with the poster that said James knows exactly what his brother is and probably set you up with him to win favor. When you have toxic family, you often find yourself in the position of trying to get on their good side. Not realising it is a pointless thing to do as you are NEVER really on their good side. They just trap you in a cycle of abuse. You have seen first hand jack do this with you. And its only taken a short time period. He's had years to mess with James's head.

I'd actually be tempted to then text him 'I left early because your brother made me very uncomfortable. His behaviour was borderline abusive and I don't know what you were thinking setting me, or any woman up with him. I am not mad at you but you do need to know that the way your brother treats women is completely unacceptable so, giving you the heads up'.

TheStoic · 26/12/2019 04:55

Try to stop thinking!

You’re doing all the right things. That’s it. You never need to interact with him ever again. You’ve escaped.

PicsInRed · 26/12/2019 05:07

Yeah, I still think James is writing Jack's texts.

James isn't the nice man you think he is.

Wtfareyou · 26/12/2019 05:13

Thanks again all, and for the offer astrogirl! That was sweet and I know there are good and bad eggs to be found everywhere ...but I think I'll be staying well away from any romantic or physical intimacy for a while.

I will be telling James about what happened. But not for a couple of weeks or so. We are very close as friends, able to tell each other everything. We meet up every week or two as we don't work directly together. I do think he has a toxic family, I'm just not sure he realises how bad it is,like one poster says this is his normal. He is so unbelievably different to the rest of his siblings. There is almost 10 years between James and Jack, and they have lived in different parts of the world for most of the last 25 years, so I'm not sure he really knows how bad he is. And of course he has only ever had Jack's version of things before. For the sake of our friendship I will be as honest and open as I can. James's partner has been treated very badly by another brother (a financial issue) so I don't think it will be a total surprise. But I do realise family bonds are strong and it may alter our friendship. It might even make it better who knows.

Ritascornershop - that behaviour does sound similar. I've heard of this kind of thing before, including here, but never experienced it. Can I ask what happened if that's okay? Did you leave him and how did he behave then?

You lot are giving me the strength to get through this, so these are for all of you Flowers

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 26/12/2019 05:42

Might help you to google 'narcissistic personality disorder' as jack sounds like he's got all that going on.

KatherineJaneway · 26/12/2019 06:09

Wow OP, what an awful time you had. He came across as lovely but once you were vulnerable, he tried to 'train' you to respond how he wanted you to.

I'd block Jack now if I were you.

Safe flight.

rainbowstardrops · 26/12/2019 08:46

Blimey, he's very odd! It seems like he's a 'normal' sweet guy when he can just text but then turns into a vile lowlife when his family are around. Maybe he has an image he has to keep up in front of them?
Whatever his reasons for treating you appallingly, you're well rid!
I'd text once you've landed.

Newmumma83 · 26/12/2019 09:29

I would go silent wait for my money back then if he continues to message me I would simply explain your can’t match up the man you met with the man who texts you and your not compatible

If he wants clarity then I would give him bullet points like you have us :

You interrupt me when I speak and tell me to shut up

Then you tell me off for being quiet and accuse me of sulking

You ridicule everything I say in the name of banter but fail to recognise I did not find it funny banter is meant to be both sides if not your just going to offend someone FYI

Would be tempted to add
You are in summery a bit of a arse if I am being honest ... you require a sub servant mute as a future partner to be happy and that’s just not me.

gottastopeatingchocolate · 26/12/2019 11:21

Hope you are safely home, OP.

SarahNade · 26/12/2019 11:44

@NoMoreCricketDartsOrFootball Agreed. I'm Australian and most of the Australian men I've been with have been gentlemen. On the other hand, all 3 of the English men I have been with have been boorish pigs. Oh the irony of people in the UK attacking Aussie men! wow. Jesus of Nazareth irony!

SarahNade · 26/12/2019 11:47

In fact, there is a saying in Australia about never dating UK men as they are abusive, boorish and emotionally immature. Funny that.

OP, how could James not have known what his brother is like? It sounds to me like he set you up to fail with his brother, or maybe thought you might be able to 'change' him. But I would be ripping James a new arsehole if I were you.

He knew. There is no way he didn't know.

Wtfareyou · 26/12/2019 12:39

I'm back home. Totally broken by the whole thing. Thanks everyone

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread