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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Want to go NC with dad but am I overreacting?

62 replies

Shefliesonherownwings · 18/12/2019 20:17

I’m aware I may be due to grief and past history but need outside opinions. Sorry it's long but I don't want to drip feed.

Dad and I have a difficult relationship. I am an only child and now 36. I find dad to be very controlling and suffocating towards me and mum. It’s his way or the high way and if someone doesn't fall in line he will tantrum and shout you down. He bullies my mum, shouts at her and nitpicks at her all the time. She does everything at home whilst he sits there doing nothing. He is in poor health but certainly milks that to get everyone else to run around after him. Mum deals with this by keeping her head down and saying nothing for a quiet life. I used to be the same but for the last few years I have challenged him when he is bullying her or when he is dictating to me. This has resulted in us not speaking for various periods and then making up but his behaviour doesn’t change. He loves the sound of his own voice, doesn’t stop talking, mainly about himself as everything is me, me, me and we disagree on a lot of matters. We have little in common and to be honest I dread speaking or seeing him as it’s such hard work but I want to see and speak to my mum and he gets very funny about her doing things like seeing me without him.

In February this year I fell pregnant. DH and I were overjoyed and everything went perfectly with the pregnancy. Low risk, very happy time. In the summer dad and I had a big blowout over the way he was speaking to my mum and having find out we were expecting a girl I suddenly had the realisation that I didn’t want her to grow up seeing that kind of behaviour so I took a bit of a step back from seeing him. Not easy as he gets very passive aggressive if I’m not in contact with him often enough.

Devastatingly our DD was born sleeping last month at 41 weeks whilst I was in labour. We don’t know why, the PM and investigation reports are still pending. DH and I are heartbroken and trying to find our way through the grief. Initially, to my surprise dad was very supportive. I had thought that this tragedy may bring us back together.

This week we had my DDs funeral. The night before the funeral my parents stayed at a hotel near where the service was for convenience. I met them for dinner the night before. Obviously we were all feeling fragile, DH and I had been to the funeral directors that afternoon to take some things to be put in the coffin and spend some time with our DD. One of the things that my mum had asked to do was write a letter to our DD for the coffin. I also wrote one and told our families they could put photos in if they wanted.

During dinner my dad decided to start in on me about the fact that I don’t speak to my aunt, his sister. She's not a nice person, and is basically a female version of him so I have gone NC. He does not accept this and says she’s my only aunt on his side so I should speak to her. I told him I didn’t want to talk about that then. He carried on until I ended up getting upset and crying at the table. He apologised and I composed myself. My mum then asked about the letters and visit to the funeral director so I said we'd taken them and spent some time there. Dad then kicked off. Claimed he hadn’t been told about the letters and might have wanted to write one. Mum said she had told him about this and he had said he couldn’t deal with thinking about the coffin. He got quite nasty with her, said he didn’t remember that and told her she was ‘fucking lying' and said to her ‘don’t you fucking lie to me'.

This happens a lot with him being told something then claiming not to remember but really he just doesn’t listen. I told him if he wanted to write a letter he could do one for her memory box or if he wrote one that night we might be able to put it in the coffin before or after the funeral. I told him to stop having a go at mum and making it about himself. He went off on me, told me he knows I’m upset but other people are too and he is having to walk on eggshells around me. He insinuated we had deliberately kept this from him and had cooked it up when mum had come to see me on my own a couple of weeks ago. I told him to think about writing a letter to his granddaughter and not focus on making out everyone was against him. As we walked to the cars he said we’re all a bit fragile and sort of apologised. I ended up driving home in tears, seething about how once again he’d made it all about him. My mum sent me a message later that night saying she was sorry he was so badly behaved but he doesn’t know how to cope.

After the funeral mum and dad drove us home and once again he was making passive aggressive comments in the car about not being told anything and always being left out.

The more and more I think about things the more upset, hurt and angry I am at his behaviour. None of us know how to cope as none of us have been through this before, we are all going through hell but no one else would have behaved this way, except him. He made what was already such a difficult time so much worse and as usual thought only of himself. We are meant to see my parents on boxing day but I want to tell him this week that how he has behaved was incredibly hurtful and I am disgusted with him. I didn’t at the time as I wanted to focus on giving my DD the best send off possible. Now though I honestly feel he has behaved unforgivably and I don’t want to see or speak to him. But am I overreacting here or am I right to be so upset?

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 18/12/2019 20:25

I am so sorry about the loss of your beautiful baby.

As for your father, I think it is imperative for your mental well-being to stay completely away from him. He is a vicious, abusive man. Tell your mother you want to see her, but you are done with him.

EpcotForever · 18/12/2019 20:32

Don't have any advice for you but I'm really sorry for what you and your husband have gone through.

fuzzymoon · 18/12/2019 20:33

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I cannot begin to imagine the pain you are feeling.

Your dad sounds awful. He obviously has huge issues mental health , narcissism or something else but that does not excuse his behaviour.

You have every right to go nc and I wouldn't blame you if you did.

Perhaps write to him. Explain that you love him, wanted a relationship but can't because of his behaviour. Explain the gaslighting, selfishness with examples. Tell him it's abusive.

Writing it down gives him time to read, reread and think about the content rather than reacting straight away.

I hope that you are able to keep in touch with your mum.

You sound so thoughtful and kind.

Ohyesiam · 18/12/2019 20:45

So so sorry for your loss.
Your dad is way too toxic for you to have to deal with, you are in no way over reacting.

AntiHop · 18/12/2019 20:50

You have every right to step away from your relationship with your dad. You can tell your mum you want to see her alone for now. Then the ball is in her court.

Winterdaysarehere · 18/12/2019 20:50

He confirms time after time he is a twat.
Sorry for your loss. Gather your last bit of strength and tell him to fuck off.
Go nc and see dm alone.
Yanbu to do this.
I ma nc with df - I can thoroughly recommend it for your mh op.
Flowers

Chocolate50 · 18/12/2019 20:54

Firstly I am so sorry to hear about your DD. That's devastating for you & your DH.
A few things come to mind. Your family sounds
dysfunctional (sorry this sounds blunt)- your DD may also be suffering physically which might be underlying his bad behaviour but he also sounds like a really unhappy person who doesn't know how to communicate. I'm not making excuses but just offering reasons that might explain his behaviour. Also, where is your DH in this? You don't say how he is supporting or responding to this.
The bottom line is that you have to decide what is acceptable for you. But I wouldn't do anything yet because you are grieving and when you're in that space it's not the time to make big decisions.
That said you have to let him know how you feel so I would be inclined to write him a letter explaining how you feel. You don't have to be too blamey about it as it'll make things worse but focus on your feelings & how his behaviour feels to you.
It sounds like you want to make changes which have been triggered by a realisation that you just can't want to take it anymore (due to your recent loss)

snoopy18 · 18/12/2019 20:58

I am so so sorry for your loss.

You don’t need his behaviour around you at this time - you are not unreasonable for steering clear. It will help you so much to be away from negative energy & the behaviours he has.

Skittlesandbeer · 18/12/2019 21:00

I’d say this latest incident is a very good time to go NC. It really underlines his awfulness to have done it when he did. No one will ever blame you, or likely try to convince you to ‘forgive him’. Probably your mum will, but I won’t blame the victim if she does try.

I would say to read up on NC, and go into it with your eyes wide open. There are consequences you may not have thought through. Figure out exactly how you’ll see your mum, ring her, etc. There will be times you accidentally have contact with your dad into the future- so figure out how you’ll handle them.

It’s a very freeing thing, if you do it right. And needn’t make things too much harder for your poor mum. Good luck, I think you have a much brighter future ahead.

FoxFriend · 18/12/2019 21:05

I am so sorry for your loss. His behaviour is especially unforgivable under the circumstances. I think your focus right now needs to be surrounding yourself and your DH with people who are going to support and uplift you during this time. It doesn’t sound like your dad is going to be one of those people. Drop the rope and focus on yourselves.

Shefliesonherownwings · 18/12/2019 23:31

Thank you for your replies and kindness. I'm aware that I am still very much in the early days of grief and it is overwhelming. I'm also aware that the funeral and his behaviour is very fresh. In time I may get over it, but I may not. Currently I dont think I have ever been more angry or upset at another person in my life.

To whoever asked about DH and his support, he has been and continues to be my absolute rock. Of course he is grieving too but he has been nothing short of amazing. I genuinely would not have survived these past few weeks without him.

DH tolerates my dad, he will play nice for my sake really. DH wasn't at dinner, he didn't feel too good after we'd been to the funeral directors so I went on my own. I told DH what happened of course and he was furious but we wanted to make sure our DDs funeral was perfect the next day so we didn't say anything. He did say to me that he was on the verge of saying something about how dad was behaving in the car. DH hates the way he treats my mum, he always says he doesn't understand why she puts up with it. He will support me whatever I do but I suspect he would be quite happy to go NC.

I am torn between writing to dad or ringing him. The reason I am considering ringing is that even though I probably won't get a word in edgeways I don't think he will truly understand how hurt I am unless he hears me say it. Although I get very flustered when confronting him so it might not be a good idea. I tried emailing a couple of years ago when we had a falling out and didnt speak for a few months. I tried very hard to explain my feelings without blaming him but he again made everything about how horrible I was and how badly I treated him. Even on paper he was awful. In the end he made life very hard for my mum and I knew he would make her choose between us so to avoid her being in that position I made up with him.

I am annoyed he is even taking up so much of my thoughts when I want to be thinking about DD.

OP posts:
Skittlesandbeer · 19/12/2019 05:03

If you do go NC with your dad, there’s no need for letters or calls or messages via others.

You let your distance and silence be your communication. It’s very powerful.

Chocolate50 · 19/12/2019 08:03

Oh OP you sound tortured & you don't need it right now. It's not your job to be responsible for how your DD reacts. You only have to look after yourself. Honestly if it's causing you this much stress don't do anything. You don't have to!
I mean take it in stages. You can always change your mind about calling or writing another time. Leave it for a week or so & let your feelings settle.

Shefliesonherownwings · 21/12/2019 11:54

I spoke to my mum this morning, she is desperately trying to help me and has tried talking to him. But he cannot see beyond himself.

He is basically telling everyone he comes into contact with about what has happened. Including the local pharmacist, the woman up the road with the seafood stall etc... and then messaging me to say 'Louise with the seafood stall sends her best'. I don't know these people and I don't want them knowing all my personal business. I know, and mum basically confirmed, he is doing this to garner sympathy for himself. DH says he's doing this because the attention is not on him, which I completely believe.

Mum has tried to say to him that spreading my personal business around is upsetting me and I'd rather he didn't and he just turned it around and said that I am always blaming him, making him out to be the bad guy and taking it out on him. He's right I am blaming him because he is behaving despicably. He can't see that though, there's no way he will take responsibility for his own actions. According to mum he is obsessed with himself. This is how his side of the family all operates and is why I don't speak to any of them.

Anyway I have messaged him about his behaviour at dinner and to ask him to stop telling everyone what happened. I tried as much as possible to make it about how I am feeling and to ask him to respect my wishes right now. I said to mum that in an ideal world he would apologise, realise what he has done wrong, accept it and not do it again. I know this won't happen but I feel better just for having messaged him and got it off my chest. It has been eating me for days. No doubt I will get a load of abuse back but if so, I will just block him. It's so sad that I can't rely on him for support at at time like this.

OP posts:
Shefliesonherownwings · 15/02/2020 20:11

Hi all. I was wondering if I may ask for some more advice about my dad please.

After I messaged him in december I recieved a text back saying I blame him for everything and have done since I was a teenager. He said he wouldn't contact me. I was fine with that and we haven't spoken since. I've been in regular contact with my mum and we don't talk about my dad so I've been happy with that.

Today I received an email from him. My mum warned me it was coming and said she was very sorry, she loves me and hope's I'm ok. DH actually read it for me and then gave me the summary. It's titled Goodbye so you can probably guess the gist but in essence it is all about him again. Talks about how my mum is frightened of me and I have been the cause of them almost splitting up over all this. I've made him ill, he's done so much for me in my life and I've turned into a horrible person. The only mention of my DD is when he says he is just as upset as me about it all. It's paragraphs and paragraphs of him talking about himself, telling me I need to grow up, I have a lot to learn about people blah blah blah.

I don't want to reply to him, I certainly won't be answering any of his points but I'm wondering whether to just message back and say, if he wants to blame anyone for anything he should just look at himself and just call him out on being a disgusting bullying narcissistic arsehole. Or should I just delete and ignore it.

I'm not actually upset, or surprised just disappointed and not sure what I should do, if anything.

OP posts:
ItWentDownMyHeartHole · 15/02/2020 20:24

I think don’t reply. You’ve done it, You said what needed to be said. I’m really pleased you still talk to your mum but your dad is a lost cause. He’s completely toxic. Talk to a therapist but don’t engage in contact with him. Wishing you and your DH the absolute best.

Shefliesonherownwings · 15/02/2020 21:41

Thanks I think you're right, no need to reply and he's made the decision about contact for me. I have regular counselling so I will talk about this next time I see her.

OP posts:
Happyandglorious · 16/02/2020 06:41

I think his email is a gift to you (allbeit a revolting and painful one) it confirms you have done the right thing. I wouldn't reply it just feeds his aggression and anger.
I am so sorry for your terrible loss and that you have suffered on top of that through his behaviour.
I hope the counselling will help you come to terms with all you have been through.
Your husband sounds lovely. I hope you two will have much happier times in the future.
Sending love and strength

Scarfaceclaw21 · 16/02/2020 07:09

I think his email is another attempt to control you and have the "last word". Ignoring it will probably make him v.annoyed, and he will do something else to provoke a reaction.

His behaviour is awful, but to lambast a recently bereaved mother is despicable. My condolences to you and your DH.

Rosetta19 · 16/02/2020 07:09

This is so very sad. So very sad.

Firstly, my deepest condolences for your loss.

In my experience a parent who has NPD will act up during pregnancies. Your father has NPD. Moreover, you are an Empath and you are dissasociating due to the pain.

Making your DDs funeral about him is beyond fucking vile. You know this. Its actually one of the most abhorrent stories I've ever read on here.

This man has abused you. All your life. Hes a criminal who needs to be put in jail. Bet you any money he coerces your mum into sex. And that will be the tip of the iceberg.

He will have cheated on her. He'll be doing it now. People like you F are entitled. Your post strongly suggests ges a Middle ranging Narc. Victim cadre.

Go NC. Bear in mind EVERYTHING you tell your DM will get back to him.she will now be in the middle. God only knows what this woman has gone through. She needs to divorce him but she probably wont. Your mum should divorce him SOLEY on how he behaved at your DDs funeral.

If I can help in any way, please PM me.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 16/02/2020 08:07

My sincerest condolences to you and your husband re your daughter.

You are very much sadly an adult child of a narcissist; all your words are reflective of being such. They were toxic parents to you when you were growing up and neither here have changed since then.

Toxic people like your dad like nothing more than a fight and or having the "last word". Your message to him sadly gave him all the ammo he needed to toss right back at you. It is really not possible to have any sort of a relationship with someone like your dad - and for that matter your mother as well who will continue to make excuses and otherwise side with him. Their relationship is both complicated and a self destructive dance of codependency.

Going forward you may well get some contact from the "flying monkeys" who will have been sent out by your dad to do his bidding for him. Ignore such flying monkeys because they are not interested in hearing your side of things, their opinion therefore should be ignored. You may also get wind of your mother or he going into hospital for tests for a previously unknown health problem.

Radio silence needs to be maintained. I would not respond to your dad at all going forward; any response from you, no matter how carefully worded or measured, will be used against you by him. Also such from you will be seen as a "reward" to such people, he knows he has you then. Have no contact with him (and for that matter your mother as well) at all; drop the rope he keeps on holding out to you.

What are your boundaries like with regards to your parents; it appears they are all over the place as well mainly and simply because your dad in particular has never encouraged you to have any.

The only people to my mind who actually bother with narcissists are those who have received special training from early childhood i.e the now adult children of such disordered of thinking toxic people. It is not your fault these people are the ways they are and you did not make them that way. You've stated that his family of origin are narcissistic as well, that is really not surprising either.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and your mother's role here seems still to be one of enabling her H (and otherwise making excuses for him hence her well he cannot cope comment). She is really his secondary abuser and his enabler and she has failed you abjectly as a parent as well. She failed to protect you as a child from the excesses of her H's behaviours. She gets what she wants out of this relationship with her H and has continued to stay with him for her own reasons thus throwing you under the bus in the process. I would be having a long and hard think about her roles in all this and whether you at all want a relationship with her. I personally would not. You also would not have tolerated this from a friend.

Re therapy do consider finding a therapist who has no familial bias (this is important) despite the presence of mistreatment and is well versed in the ways of narcissistic family structures. Do consider also posting on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages; several of the posters on there have a narcissistic parent.

Comtesse · 16/02/2020 11:14

Your father is the lowest of the low, he is utter scum. Glad you are going to therapy, there is a lot to talk about. I am so sorry for the loss of your baby. Flowers

Rosetta19 · 16/02/2020 12:58

@AttilaTheMeerkat has it. Listen to this poster.

StrawberryJam200 · 16/02/2020 13:10

I feel it’s unfair to blame the OP’s mother, she is just as much a victim of this man. Over the long years she will have learned ways to survive and get through life. The fact that she tried to dissuade her husband from this course of action is brave and may well have cost her dearly.

Shefliesonherownwings · 16/02/2020 14:28

Thank you all so much for your views and condolences. I woke up around 6am this morning thanks to the storm and just got really angry. How dare he send me an email like that when I am at the lowest I have ever been. In my head I drafted a response calling him out on everything. But I think you are all right and no response is the best way forward. I think it will irritate him further if he doesn't get a rise. His email said something about maybe wanting to see me in the future if he feels like it. I have no desire to ever see or speak to him again so good luck with that! This has been the last straw. I am more upset that he couldn't even bring himself to ask how DH and I are or to mention our DD in any meaningful way.

I am so conflicted about my mum. For so many years I believed her to be a victim, just finding a way to keep the peace and I tried my best to protect her including standing up for her against him which always resulted in me receiving a load of abuse. She is a victim of domestic abuse and for the longest time I never thought badly of her.

But when we had a blow out last summer while I was pregnant and she failed to stand up for me, I started to see things differently. I'd stood up for her, been screamed at by dad and received no support from her. In fact she rang me later and told me how badly i'd behaved. She then text me afterwards and said she'd had to say all that as dad was there and she wanted to keep the peace but she didnt mean it. It was then I realised she was enabling him and I knew I didn't want my daughter around that environment.

Since we lost our DD my mum has been wonderful, very supportive and helpful. All she wants is to help us though this. BUT she allowed my dad to say those things to me the night before the funeral and she has allowed him to send me this email. She has not stood up for me in the same way I have always tried to for her. I said to DH last night that if he ever behaved that way towards a child of ours, I'd have divorced him without question. But mum is still there and to my knowledge there is no indication she is considering leaving. She has spent 40 years living this life so I know it's hard for her but surely she cannot stand by and think it's ok to treat me like this. I really do need her right now, I cant bear to think of not having her in my life but at the same time I am hurt by her inaction.

OP posts: