Want to go NC with dad but am I overreacting?

[Shefliesonherownwings]

I’m aware I may be due to grief and past history but need outside opinions. Sorry it's long but I don't want to drip feed.

Dad and I have a difficult relationship. I am an only child and now 36. I find dad to be very controlling and suffocating towards me and mum. It’s his way or the high way and if someone doesn't fall in line he will tantrum and shout you down. He bullies my mum, shouts at her and nitpicks at her all the time. She does everything at home whilst he sits there doing nothing. He is in poor health but certainly milks that to get everyone else to run around after him. Mum deals with this by keeping her head down and saying nothing for a quiet life. I used to be the same but for the last few years I have challenged him when he is bullying her or when he is dictating to me. This has resulted in us not speaking for various periods and then making up but his behaviour doesn’t change. He loves the sound of his own voice, doesn’t stop talking, mainly about himself as everything is me, me, me and we disagree on a lot of matters. We have little in common and to be honest I dread speaking or seeing him as it’s such hard work but I want to see and speak to my mum and he gets very funny about her doing things like seeing me without him.

In February this year I fell pregnant. DH and I were overjoyed and everything went perfectly with the pregnancy. Low risk, very happy time. In the summer dad and I had a big blowout over the way he was speaking to my mum and having find out we were expecting a girl I suddenly had the realisation that I didn’t want her to grow up seeing that kind of behaviour so I took a bit of a step back from seeing him. Not easy as he gets very passive aggressive if I’m not in contact with him often enough.

Devastatingly our DD was born sleeping last month at 41 weeks whilst I was in labour. We don’t know why, the PM and investigation reports are still pending. DH and I are heartbroken and trying to find our way through the grief. Initially, to my surprise dad was very supportive. I had thought that this tragedy may bring us back together.

This week we had my DDs funeral. The night before the funeral my parents stayed at a hotel near where the service was for convenience. I met them for dinner the night before. Obviously we were all feeling fragile, DH and I had been to the funeral directors that afternoon to take some things to be put in the coffin and spend some time with our DD. One of the things that my mum had asked to do was write a letter to our DD for the coffin. I also wrote one and told our families they could put photos in if they wanted.

During dinner my dad decided to start in on me about the fact that I don’t speak to my aunt, his sister. She's not a nice person, and is basically a female version of him so I have gone NC. He does not accept this and says she’s my only aunt on his side so I should speak to her. I told him I didn’t want to talk about that then. He carried on until I ended up getting upset and crying at the table. He apologised and I composed myself. My mum then asked about the letters and visit to the funeral director so I said we'd taken them and spent some time there. Dad then kicked off. Claimed he hadn’t been told about the letters and might have wanted to write one. Mum said she had told him about this and he had said he couldn’t deal with thinking about the coffin. He got quite nasty with her, said he didn’t remember that and told her she was ‘fucking lying' and said to her ‘don’t you fucking lie to me'.

This happens a lot with him being told something then claiming not to remember but really he just doesn’t listen. I told him if he wanted to write a letter he could do one for her memory box or if he wrote one that night we might be able to put it in the coffin before or after the funeral. I told him to stop having a go at mum and making it about himself. He went off on me, told me he knows I’m upset but other people are too and he is having to walk on eggshells around me. He insinuated we had deliberately kept this from him and had cooked it up when mum had come to see me on my own a couple of weeks ago. I told him to think about writing a letter to his granddaughter and not focus on making out everyone was against him. As we walked to the cars he said we’re all a bit fragile and sort of apologised. I ended up driving home in tears, seething about how once again he’d made it all about him. My mum sent me a message later that night saying she was sorry he was so badly behaved but he doesn’t know how to cope.

After the funeral mum and dad drove us home and once again he was making passive aggressive comments in the car about not being told anything and always being left out.

The more and more I think about things the more upset, hurt and angry I am at his behaviour. None of us know how to cope as none of us have been through this before, we are all going through hell but no one else would have behaved this way, except him. He made what was already such a difficult time so much worse and as usual thought only of himself. We are meant to see my parents on boxing day but I want to tell him this week that how he has behaved was incredibly hurtful and I am disgusted with him. I didn’t at the time as I wanted to focus on giving my DD the best send off possible. Now though I honestly feel he has behaved unforgivably and I don’t want to see or speak to him. But am I overreacting here or am I right to be so upset?

OP I’m very sorry for your loss.
Your DF sounds like mine in many ways. I’m in my 40s now and I’m still damaged by it. I have not been strong enough to go NC yet but I know I need to. My mental health suffers if I spend time alone with him.
Don’t reply to his email. If you do he will tell everyone and use it against you forever. He’ll never acknowledge his behaviour or feel remorse. He just doesn’t possess that quality. My DF feels remorse for about half a day after he ‘explodes’ then the moodiness and nastiness just starts again.
Like you my feelings about my DM are changing. She’s allowed him to behave like this and always forgiven him. The way he used to shout at me and the names he used to call me were absolutely unforgivable and she didn’t step in. She should have left him when we were young children. She’s not to blame for his behaviour but she is to blame for not protecting me from it.
Your DH sounds lovely and supportive.

Thank you @Aminuts23. I'm sorry you've experienced the same things.

I'm starting to see the same thing about my mum, she's not causing the behaviour but she's not doing anything to stop it. Perhaps she is telling him what he's doing is wrong but I doubt it. He's too volatile for her to stand up to him.

As much as I would love to reply and lay i to him, I won't. I wont lower myself to his level. I'm just really not sure how to navigate a relationship with my mum. I will speak to my counsellor about this and see if she can help. But she's pur bereavement counsellor so I may need someone more specialised as another poster referred to.

DH is amazing, completely the opposite of my dad which is so lovely and refreshing. I don't deserve him, he is wonderful and I am so thankful to have him.

I am so sorry for your loss wings

Your Dad is a wreck of a human person. From all you write he's incapable of improvement. You know better than I, but I suspect that sums it up.

Your mum has let you down very badly but in time (not now) I hope you can reach pity for her and remember the love. She does love you, but she's been ground down by years and years of control and abuse. So many threads on here about women who try to leave and can't - and 40 years ago it was much harder, still.

It's right to be angry with her, because she didn't protect you. Just ... I hope you can come to see her with pity, as a true victim. It's a dirty word, that, now. But she was/is.

Look after yourself, lovely.

Yes I think you have it, mum has been ground down by it all over the decades. I guess I thought that if there anything that would make her stand up for me, it would be the way he is acting during this hideous time. Talk about kicking me when in down.

I know she is upset as well, DD was her first granddaughter and she was so looking forward to it all. But surely she can stick up for me on this and if this behaviour from him doesn't give her the incentive to change then nothing will and I'm afraid I will look at her differently now. Yes she's a victim but when can she say enough is enough.

Ahh wings, what a very sad situation, you have been battered around by this horrible man. Of all the things he said, the thing that struck a cord most for me was saying he was as upset as you over your wee one's death. What a cruel thing to say and very telling of his self obsession. I have previously heard of sibling rivalry grief but never from a grand parent.

Whilst our situation bears no resemblance to yours, we are dealing with a sibling who is behaving horribly and sending vile emails to DH. The sibling is very self obsessed and believes they are the chief mourner in their DM's death and making horrible accusations along the lines of your father.

The response has been to go NC but because there is an estate involved which has to be split, the emails and messages are being passed to a solicitor. We decided that replying is playing into their drama, this is what they want and silence on DH's part gives him back control.

Incidentally, their mother also used to send vindictive letters to people and caused a lot of upset doing so.

You don't deserve this and you don't need it. You've had a horrendous, life shattering experience and you and your DH need to be nurtured and loved. Put yourselves first and remove this man from your life. If your mother can't support you, she needs to go too.

Wishing you and you DH all the love in the world for the future ❤❤❤

Wings. I feel for your DM but she has consistently shown herself to be as much use as a chocolate poker. I imagine she was abused as a child.

Abuse can sometimes make you a fighter or it can make you a victim. Dont be a victim. Fight. Excise people from your life who do not deserve your love, kindness and compassion.

I think you are awesome. Please take care of yourself.

I'm so sorry for your loss wings and for the added stress of your parents. Let this be a catalyst for change in your life. We had a similar situation with DHs narcissistic mother and enabler father during my traumatic birth which is eerily similar in parental behaviour. MIL tried to make it all about her which contributed to my subsequent PND and PNA. They swung from ignoring what had happened and the effect on me and DH to MIL telling everyone who would listen and then telling me all about it. They would invite us out to lunch and tell the waitress about it all in order to gain sympathy without caring how inappropriate it was or how I would feel. It was all about them in their mind and MIL would tell me that I had no idea how awful it was for her. I had specialist birth trauma counselling which helped so much as I needed to talk to someone to confirm how batshit their behaviour was. Sadly we had allowed them to become enmeshed with our lives so are slowly untangling ourselves and seeing them less and less. I've noticed if I offer contact in anything other than a forum that allows them to dominate completely and talk about themselves theyll refuse. We've also had self indulgent emails and texts generally about how others perceive them. I found it helpful to read up on the typical tactics of narcissists so I knew what to expect and that there was no point challenging anything with them because they are incapable of listening or self reflection. I think the stately homes thread could be a helpful link for you as others have said. Ultimately it's best to detach and surround yourself with truly supportive people rather than those who thrive off of FOG. Our lives have changed so much as a result of this experience because its forced a lot of issues to the surface. Full disclosure, my DD did survive by pure luck but even then it's taken us 18 months to get to where we are now.

Hi OP... I have just read through your posts and we have a lot in common, unfortunately. Firstly. So sorry that you lost your baby. That is unimaginably painful. To have anyone, let alone a parent try and take that emotionally from you is unforgivable. Unfortunately I think you need to revisit the way you view your mother as well. She has used you as a buffer to avoid abuse from her husband. She has given him permission to abuse you instead, when the decent thing to do would have been to remove herself and her child from the agressor. She isn’t a victim. She is part of the abuse cycle. She is a perpetuator. (In my family, it was the other way around, and my mother was breaking bones. My father would occasionally snap and then humiliate or verbally abuse me, then blame my mother, citing his helplessness to change the situation.) Looking back now, I am reasonably sure that he was the brains and she was the more easily manipulated puppet. (She was volatile and he was controlled). They’re both dead now and I still have panic attacks.

I'm so sorry for everything you're going through, first of all

Your father sounds just like mine. A complete narcissist who is incapable, because of the way he sees the world, of caring about anybody else, even his own children. I went no contact in September and although I'm grieving that loss, I feel freer than I have ever felt, and like I have more clarity.

What your father has done and the way he has acted in these circumstances is totally unforgivable. However, this recent email is just an act of narcissistic hoovering, trying to get you back into his sphere of power. I have two suggestions:

1. Set up a rule in your email inbox so that any emails from that address either a) get deleted automatically, or b) get sent to a second email account that you set up only for him and do not save the password easily. This second option is good if you think you'd like to read them in future, but it gives you a mindful pause. Also block his number and don't open letters. It's just further trauma... Which brings me on to my second suggestion.

2. If finances allow, find a supportive therapist who you can work through this with. You've already faced one very real loss recently, and the loss of your relationship with your father will be another one that needs to be grieved. A good therapist will help you process all the hurt and anger and sadness, and also some of the views you might now have about your mum and the fact she's let this happen. You must also have some unhappy memories from childhood and your teen years, which a therapist will help you work through. This therapy has been life-changing for me; it's been so hard but so worth it and I think without it I would have caved and gone back to my father. But I know now that I will not allow that to happen, least of all for the little child inside me who always felt like she was never good enough for him, and for the teenager in me (clever girl!) who always just wanted to be far, far away from him.

I hope this all helps. Just some thoughts from the trenches! You sound strong and resilient, I hope you are able to process it all and come out having made peace with these things.

Don't respond, you're fuelling his fire further. Your mum needs to grow a backbone and divorce him. Sorry for your loss op

Always resist the urge to respond to your dad, he's losing his power which he hates. I hope your mum divorces him.

Radio silence from you needs to be maintained and that includes anything from the flying monkeys who may now be used against you as well.

FWIW I do not think your mother will divorce your father. They both get what they want out of their relationship and so will likely remain together. Theirs is a destructive dance of codependency. I would personally have no contact now with either.

Your mother failed you and continues to do so. She is certainly also accountable for her actions. The enabler parent panders to the narcissist, tries to keep them happy, and will even become a part of the abuse of the children, if it means the narcissist will get off the enabling parents back. At the end of the day, they are the narcissist’s sidekick, soldier in the narcissist’s army, and thoroughly perpetuate the bullying epidemic even further.

Enabling parents tend to expect support from the children to help to contain the difficult situation, and the narcissist’s rage. They expect the child to make the narcissist happy, to keep them content, and to make sure the narcissist feels admired, special and cared about all the time. In situations such as these, the enabler will perpetuate the abuse by having unusually high standards of the child; and will expect the child to show the narcissist the utmost respect, even when the narcissist is not respecting the child.

The enabling parent will not meet the child on their own emotional level, validate you here as the child, and walk away from the narcissist. The enabler can be very kind, is terribly loyal to the narcissist, and has an extreme amount of empathy for the damaged person that the narcissist has become. So they dismiss the narcissist’s behaviour, apologise for their abuse, and downplay the abuse for reasons of self-preservation. The enabler often feels reliant on the narcissist, isolated in their abuse, and as though they are going crazy.

The enabler has also been incredibly mentally damaged, manipulated, and brainwashed by the narcissist. Sometimes they simply shut down. The enablers favourite phrase here is really "forgive and forget".

Going to therapy is an action I would seriously consider doing when you are ready. Such people however, are like shoes and you need to find someone who fits in with your approach. Interview such people carefully and at length before choosing. It is critical that such a therapist has an understanding of narcissistic family dynamics and be willing to identify and hold your family members accountable for their abuse of you. If you find yourself in therapy where the therapist is questioning your perception of family members or identifies the problem as your emotional dysregulation find a different one.

Thank you all for your thoughts. Some of those posts really resonate with me. I'm sorry for those who have or are going through similar.

@TrueRefuge your point about childhood and teenage memories is right. As a teenager once I started to form my own opinions about things and disagreed with dad we began to clash. However looking back now I can see my earlier years weren't great either but I was desperate to make him happy. However his discipline was over the top, I was made to literally eat soap if he thought I was lying. The phrase wash your mouth out with soap still haunts me to this day. I was shoved across the room, woken up in the middle of the night and shouted at because of some perceived slight. I was probably about 5 or 6 when these things happened. Dad has always said how close we were and what a tight knit family we are, which couldn't be further from the truth IMO.

@Attila your posts are resonating too. Over the last couple of years, when I have spoken to mum about dads behaviour, she has agreed he's unreasonable but then said she believes he is getting dementia or something. I've told her I don't believe that and hes just a horrible person. But she does make excuses for him.

To the poster who said mum was abused as a child, I don't believe that to be true. She is the oldest sibling and she and I are very close to her siblings and all my cousins. I've heard plenty of childhood stories and it sounds like a normal childhood. Her parents are both dead now and I only met my grandfather but I genuinely don't believe she had an abused childhood.

For those talking about specialised therapy I am starting to think this is a good idea, funds permitting. What sort of therapist would I be looking for exactly? I see a bereavement counsellor weekly to talk about losing DD but I'm guessing I need some more specialised in narcissistic behaviour?

Thank you all so much. Even though I know his behaviour is despicable I am still doubting myself every now and then.

Someone who specialises in attachment theory could be helpful? A lot of people find that starting their own family brings up a lot of feelings about their own childhood - it may be this is happening for you too. Your parents are really out of line, it’s not you it’s them.

Yes absolutely OP. You need a specialist in NPD behaviour. Sadly it isnt understood. Not properly and not in its entirety. Or how prevalent it is. Sending you a PM.

Your mum may or may not be a victim in her relationship, however, she has allowed and enabled him to be a cunt to you over the years. Typical enabler, just like my dad. She will never change or leave him but may find a new lease of life if he dies.

I understand your upset, OP. He won’t change. I would go LC with both of them.

In terms of therapy, I went to a charity specialising in infertility, miscarriage, baby loss and birth trauma. It was an integrative therapist who was very knowledgeable, experienced and to the point. I had counselling and CBT via my GP but didnt find it particularly good in comparison as the therapist was happy just to watch the hours tick by with my talking without offering much insight. My therapist had some phrases that really stuck with me like "you're being expected to parent a lot of adults here", "they're expecting you to play your part", you've suppressed any real emotion" . I found this invaluable to shift my thinking and come to new conclusions and I only had 5 sessions. It was life changing so worth going private and finding someone I felt I could work and progress with. Others talking about specialists also mean someone not overly focused on keeping families together and forgiving at all costs as many push for this despite abuse etc. My therapist had just booted out her EXDH for being unsupportive during a trauma which felt relevant to me. She never pushed me to do anything but I thought "yeah you wont take any shit and have good boundaries in your life so I could benefit from talking to you".

Just to let you know, I am starting EMDR therapy for complex PTSD thanks to my bloody parents and the long-term fallout from their abusive behaviours. (Today) Something has to give.

Justilou, Ive seen you post for years now, always perceptive and compassionate.

I hope you don't mind me asking .. have you got good support systems? EMDR can be great but without support it can be too much to handle.

best of luck.

Just read your post op. Sorry for your loss.

If you haven't already done so pop over to the stately homes thread, there are loads of people who have experience of a narcissistic parent and a complicit parent on there.

Thanks Sea Eagle... Thanks for asking. Things have improved greatly on the home front. DH has realised that he has had “Head Up Arse Syndrome” and has been great. Has taken over a majority of mental load and has realised how much I have been carrying. Was rather a shock for the poor dear! I wouldn’t consider the EMDR if I wasn’t safe. X

Hi all. @justilou1 I haven't read any of your threads but I'm glad you've taken steps forward and are getting help. I hope you find it useful although I don't know what EMDR is?

I have briefly looked at the Stately homes thread a few times but never posted. I think I will though, it's good to know I'm not alone but sad others have experienced the same.

DH are away next week and have been dealing with the aftermath of the storms highlighting we need a new roof the last couple of days but once we're back I'll look into therapists. I think I'll need help working out what if any relationship I have with mum. Thank you all. X

@Rosetta19 I will PM you back when I get the chance. Thank you.

HI OP, EMDR is rapid eye movement desensitization treatment. Possibly the most scientifically-based treatment for trauma and ptsd. (It brings it up and out, and is confronting, but is in theory much faster and more permanent than talking therapies. Yesterday was gathering history - grueling, but we covered a lot. More next week. If you like, I can report back on how I feel it’s working. You definitely have to be in the right head-space to do it.)

Firstly, I am so sorry for your loss

Secondly. Go NC with them both. One is abusing and one is enabling. It took me years to work that out with my parents.

I do well for a while until I receive an email or letter that puts me in a very dark place. I no longer read anything. I am mentally well for it.

Sorry to say this, but a narcissist loves a tragedy. So his initial 'kindness' after your DD sadly passed away would not have been genuine.

Get the hell out of dodge. But be prepared for the rest of the family to cut you off at his say so, spread lies and send out the flying monkeys.

Keep strong. As an empath, you will feel guilt despite it being the right thing to do.

We're only here once. Spend it with those who deserve you xxx

@justilou1 I would be interested to hear how you are getting on with that treatment if you don't mind. DH and I are both struggling with flashbacks of losing our daughter and the time we spent in hospital when we found out she'd passed. I suspect these have come back because of external stresses. Me with my parents and him with work. Both of us are sleeping badly again and I think it may all be a symptom of PTSD.

I spoke with my mum this afternoon. She and my dad are abroad for a couple of months so we speak once a week. I'm not ready yet to decide about my relationship with her and whether to go go LC or NC. I know she enables his behaviour but I need her at the moment whilst my grief is still so fresh.

She did tell me that apparently dad now regrets sending the email and wishes he hadn't. She also confirmed that a lot of what he said about me being responsible for them almost splitting up and me making him ill was bollocks. She couldn't excuse his behaviour and said he is just obsessed with himself. I told her that whether he regrets sending the email or not makes no difference to me. He's behaved despicably, yet again he has thought only of himself and it's all too late now. I told her I'm done with him. I don't have the energy or desire to continue with an abusive relationship. She said she understood completely. She did however go back to the old excuse of him 'going senile'. I said I doubted that was the case and he was just a horrible person. Again it's not an excuse. DH and I are going away next week for a few days so we are focusing on that and I will think about what to do with mum when we get back. Therapy will certainly be a huge help.