Is he really broke or is this financial abuse? Where’s his money going?!

[RebornFlame]

My dh earns £25,000 per year and this will be going up by £3000 next year as he’s been promoted.

He works hard and works long hours.
I work part time 2-3 days per week and look after our 18m (we also have an older dc too).

He is permanently skint and unwilling to give/lend me money to reimburse for Christmas presents I’ve bought for our family. I think I’ll be able to get about £100 from him total but not without a bit argument about spending..... I have probably spent a total of £400 ‘on Christmas’.

Despite me only working part time I’m expected to contribute equally to all household expenses and I’m now deep into my overdraft.

I don’t understand where the money is going as he rarely goes out and doesn’t lavish money on himself with new clothes or expensive hobbies. I found out a while ago that he’d spent something like £180 on online national lottery (after reading his statement) but I haven’t seen anything like that since.

I’m now at the point that I’m having to ask him for money for petrol or for an MOT (which he grudgingly lent me) and it upsets me that as a hard working family we seem to be living on the breadline and I’m resorting to having to ask for money for the above essentials.

£180 on online national lottery

I stopped right there. On someone who earns £25k. Not normal no way no how.

Will return later. But my first thoughts are get away from it. Completely. And don’t look back. He’s a poor idiot, but don’t shackle your trip to his wagon.

He’s messed up in the head and he’ll drag you down with him.

Sounds like you just don't earn enough together and he is more sensible with money than you. Why are you buying presents worth £400 that put you in you in your overdraft?

The only bit I think is wrong is that you dont seem to have transparency between you over your joint income and expenditure.

Can either of you increase your income? Do you get or are you entitled to tax credits? Child benefit?

Sorry just read the bit about national lottery. He's not more sensible with money. You need a joint budget though. What you describe is not a partnership but is not necessarily financial abuse either. I'm gobsmacked at your spend on presents.

You need to sit down and have a “full disclosure/transparency” conversation.

You’ll need to be very firm and assertive that this situation cannot go on. It is not fair.

I’d he’s against everything into and out of the family pot I’d tell him you’ll be going back to your old (higher earning than his) career and splitting childcare costs 50/50.

Unless your outgoings are very low then I don't see that there's a lot of scope for secret spending. There's not enough information to call financial abuse. (I'd be pissed off I was working full time for £25k and my partner blows £400 on "Christmas" - especially if it wasn't agreed spending)

I do think £400 on Christmas presents is a lot. It doesn't look as if you work to a budget - and I think with the money coming in for a family of four it's something you should think about.

For someone who is supposed to love and care for you, he's doing a shit job.

He is HAPPY to see you in financial dire straits. There is no NEED for you to be but he is happy that you use 5/6 of you wages to pay towards his/his childrens home, whilst he get to pay 1/3 of his wages.

He's a tight bastard and will keep on getting tighter as he gets older.

icantbecani I don’t think £400 on Christmas (as I put in my op, not on presents alone) is not gobsmacking. A big family, many nieces and nephews who are all a tenner a pop, drinks, food, presents and few extra decorations, Xmas pjs etc. It all adds up. Some people literally spend £100 per child and think nothing of it and I’m not talking about the rich.

I had to have a similar-ish conversation with my DH after I went back to work part time. Had always earnt on par and contributed equally but when my salary dropped I struggled. He was always quite willing to 'give' me money but I hated feeling like I was on his handouts. It was only when I actually put it down in black and white in a spreadsheet that he saw how much I was impacted by the change in circumstances - and he was shocked. Maybe your DH doesn't realise how much of an impact it has had? We eventually agreed to split proportionately; his salary makes up about 70% of our total income so he puts that amount of our total joint outgoings into our joint ac. The rest comes from me, and then whatever we have left is ours to spend. It's a horrid feeling like your being held hostage by money in a marriage so I really would try and sit down together, look at the sums, be honest about how it makes you feel and find a way forward that works for both of you. If he can't be reasonable with this approach then you may have other issues to contented with.

There simply isn’t that level of income coming in here that you can keep the pay half each kind of system going. To be honest, I’m amazed you get by as well as you do OP. At this income level it really needs right budgeting and fair budgeting. So I would take an evening, sit down, go through income and expenditure and what’s essential etc. In this case I would go for the joint account plus separate ones , all Money into joint account for bills and childcare etc and then with what’s left over split equally between you. You are married, it’s meant to be family money, not what’s yours is mine and what’s mine is mine. I would be well peeved Op. I don’t think there is a secret stash, I just think he probably isn’t that frugal and actually also doesn’t have much spare cash.

Also do you both have cars etc, ? that runs away with cash— is it necessary? We earn 3 times your income as a couple (son now left home) but have only had a car in last 5 years as we had pretty pricey rent .not trying to judge at all, just saying have a household MOT and see if some things are being done because of habit.

Lovely to see the low wage bashers out in force here

Op you need to sit down with him and go through income and outgoings and talk through everything. Go on money saving expert and have a look at how you can reduce bills, make sure you are on the best tariff for fuel etc, if you receive any income based benefits at all see if you qualify for the warm home discount from your energy provider, look at deals on 0% interest credit cards and move your overdraft on to one of those maybe (but remember to keep moving the debt around once the 0% offer expires)

Do all this together and make sure you’re on the same page. Eg if reducing groceries spend on food involves one person spending half the weekend batch cooking from scratch make sure that extra load falls equally on you both. If the kids are ill and someone needs to phone into work and take the day off, make sure he does his bit wrt that too. If you have a bunch of old baby stuff you could ebay, make sure you both share that task, it’s a pain in the arse. It’s expensive having young dc! You can only find out what is going on by communicating. Good luck

I certainly wasn't low wage bashing-- Christ I've had some very shit periods money wise in the past. What I was trying to say is if money is tight and it sounds as if it is then it isn't the time to not know what's going in and out and not have quite strict budgets and he needs to be open about this.

25K is really only about 19K after tax and NI etc then don’t forget pensions. And if you’re only working 2/3 days a week and pay for childcare then honestly it sounds to me like your money just isn’t stretching.

We have a family of 6 and bring home 30K after deductions and have no childcare bill as I work evenings, it’s not a lot and whilst we manage the bills and save for Christmas and birthdays etc we often don’t have anything left to save.

The key here is transparency and budgeting which I think you’re missing in your relationship. My fist port of call would be to sit him down and ask for a chat about the bill splitting so it fairer and to set up a joint account and go through budgets one by one and agree them together. We did this and it stopped all our arguing in its tracks.

Does he have any PayPal transactions? That can be a cover for depositing into betting accounts.

I don’t think £400 on Christmas (as I put in my op, not on presents alone) is not gobsmacking. A big family, many nieces and nephews who are all a tenner a pop, drinks, food, presents and few extra decorations, Xmas pjs etc. It all adds up. Some people literally spend £100 per child and think nothing of it and I’m not talking about the rich.

OP, in the nicest possible way - what other people spend is up to them and their budget.

You don't seem to have a budget - you have you spending money, and your OH telling you you are spending too much. Do you understand that just because you want to spend it, and just because it is nice to have things for Xmas, that this is not the same as being able to afford it? You say that you 'seem' to be OK because you have plenty of food, - really?

You really have a fairly small and limited income. Why don't you and your OH sit down and make a list of all outgoings NOT just your £1000 essential bills, and see exactly what is happening? Because if your car needs taxing etc etc then you really may have to consider spending less on presents and decorations.

While your household net income may not be vast, the unexplained aspect of his spending points to gambling, and extra credit cards or loans that you are not aware of. I would suggest to him that you do open credit checks with one of the many companies offering this service for free online. You could say you are worried about bank fraud, or any old back story to get him to reveal his credit history. If he frankly refuses, he gives you an answer right there...he is hiding debt. You may have feelings for this man but he will sink you into a terrible place financially. While you may accept this, you have got to look to the future with a child to pay for. As a single parent then you could get council tax discount and benefit top up of wages. He isn't paying his way, and if he isn't willing to be open about money then you have to ask what sort of relationship you have going forward. For example, I have been diagnosed with life-changing disability in the last few years and have needed to stop full time work, while still having kids at home. I have capital to cover this situation from healthier times, but if I didn't then it would be a major crisis of who pays the bills and feeds the kids?

There's a hint in one of your posts that he may just be extremely frugal - not deeming it important to spend the money that you think is important to spend. Could that be at the root of it?

Is your earning potential approx equal to his? Would you/he be happier switching roles? So you go FT, and drops to PT with childcare? That way you'd earn more and be more in control of family spending.

Hang on
Is everyone ignoring the bit where she refused a joint account when she earns more as she didn’t want him spending “her” money, but it’s now the other way round it’s a different story?

@BillMasen didn’t she say that she didn’t want him dictating where her money went? I took that to mean he’s financially controlling which ties into what’s possibly happening here. I could be very wrong though.

What the actual fuck why do people live like this
I'm on maternity leave at The moment my statutory just finished , hubby gets paid weekly and basically hands over at the moment his full wage so that I can pay the Bill's and but the shopping
We never discussed this he does it because we are a family and have a child to provide for
I couldn't be bothered with such a selfish bastard as your hubby sounds, how much a month do you pay towards expenses ?

He doesn't earn all that much. I would expect you need to be really careful on that household income. We earn a lot more and would have a bit conversation before buying another car seat for instance. And have only spent around £400 on chrisrmas total and we have 4 children. I don't think it is necessarily clear this is abuse. I would sound a note of caution. On a low household income with fairly high fixed costs (Mortgage and childcare) then careful planning or expenditure is essential not abusive

That said I would think it fair that you should both contribute according to % you earn, so that you both have money left over.

And he does need to sit down with you and be transparent about where the money is going.

Op why are you spending a "tenner a pop" if you have lots of neices and nephews? Little token gifts are fine.

The OP did indeed say she didn’t want a joint account and the implication I take is that she wanted autonomy over her income. She worked pt and had a larger income. I suspect this caused resentment.

Tbh the picture is confusing as the OP said she already has a child and this must have been an issue before. Unless the OP earned more at that time.

It would be helpful to understand a change in career that resulted in such a drastic pay cut, from over £25k to less than £10k. This might not have been her choice but even so it warrants a discussion about how you will manage as a family. I can’t see why you wouldn’t discuss this with your husband because it is a massive hit on family finances.

Abuse is one way to describe this but I think they might be in one long attrition over finances where they have both taken advantage of the other or played games. The OP has access to statements and was offered a joint account. She knows where his money goes. These aren’t markers of abuse. But I do think there is mistrust and resentment over money going way back.

Nb I don’t think you should spend £400 on Christmas or £180 on the lotto in the year you lose over £15k in income. This family needs to budget.

Hang on
Is everyone ignoring the bit where she refused a joint account when she earns more as she didn’t want him spending “her” money, but it’s now the other way round it’s a different story?

This. It's weird.