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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

It's too late for me. I'm stuck. What do I say to that?

94 replies

SaltedCaramelWithEverything · 02/12/2019 09:38

Hi,

I'm going to try and condence this as much as possible, as it could turn into an essay.

My parents have been together 40+ years and I don't think either of them have been happy for the majority of it, but for different reasons.

My dad is 70, a lover of routine, stays in his safety zone, is generally resentful and is completely reliant on my mum....for everything. That's no exaggeration. In some ways, you could say it's a generational thing. I.e my mum washes his clothes, cooks for him, packs for him, buys his clothes etc, but that's not just usually. That's all the time. My dad has never bought himself a pair of socks even. He is clueless and when they are on a shopping trip, he will stand there like a giant child, while she holds up clothes and he will get mardy when it takes longer than he would like. Again, like a child.

All this is incredibly annoying and of course, it's wrong. However, what concerns me more is his complete lack of respect for her.

For example, he will leave his (clearly used) underwear on the floor, daily and expect my mum to pick them up. He never cleans the toilet after himself and yes, will expect my mum to go in with a loo brush. They were just staying at our house and she was on her hands and knees in our bathroom, mopping up his wee from the floor Angry I was furious on her behalf, but not surprised, which is the saddest part. Not only does he do this, but he also completely ignores her most of the time. He has never taken her out fgs! They go out, but he has never taken her out. Never. This genuinely did surprise me and something I only just found out.

I said, as I always do, that she should flat out refuse to do it (the clearing up his wee), but when she has refused, he goes into 'you clearly don't love me like you used to' mode and goes into this self pitying, wallowing, depressive state. He is depressed and I really pushed him to get help for this, 10 or so years ago. That said, it doesn't excuse this behaviour.

My mum is mid 60's and is naturally a happy, positive person, but she recently told me that it's too late for her now and that he's basically turned out her light. Heart breaking isn't the word. I cried after they left this time. I have always been angry and sad for my mum, but this time I saw it differently. I didn't see her as my mum, I saw her just as a woman who has missed out on the basic joys of life.

Is it too late? It can't be. How do I help her?

My dad loves my mum to pieces. She is his world, but he treats her so appallingly. I forget the extent of it tbh. Most of the time it's just not spoken about.

My dad wouldn't be able to cope without my mum. Practically or emotionally. He wouldn't want to live and she knows this. I suspect that's why she stays.

He also ignores me most of the time and whereas I know he loves me, I have always been sad that we don't have a better relationship. He has never bought me a present, a card...he has never even called me for a chat. He doesn't know me and I don't think he has any interest in getting to know me. I get jealous when I see father/daughters together and he actually shows interest. It crushes me tbh. This isn't about me though. I've made my peace, to an extent, that this is the relationship that we will always have.

I just don't know what to do. As much of an arse as he can be, I love him and I worry about him, but I can't stand by and hear my mum say these things and ignore them.

Any advice on how I go about this? I'm devastated.

Thanks

OP posts:
AttheMarket31974632 · 02/12/2019 15:06

Are they both currently retired ?

What are their plans for retirement ?

Hecateh · 02/12/2019 15:19

@Besidesthepoint eerrrrrr conscription ended at the end of 1960 - he would have been 5 ffs.

Definitely not generational - although I do know what you mean. It is STILL unfortunately a cultural thing for some people - and only gradually becoming less so.

My Dad would have been 105 this year. He certainly didn't share the housework but he always cooked Sunday dinner and Christmas dinner all my life. And coped when, on occasion, Mum was in hospital or went to stay with her sister.

dottiedodah · 02/12/2019 15:25

I think Mum has been backed into a corner here really .Did she work when you were you were younger? If she was a housewife, then she probably feels (wrongly) that she has the "caring role" and he is exploiting it for all its worth! Does he ever do anything in return ,wash up ,hoover ,make a cup of tea? Sadly at their ages its unlikely she will leave him now but you could suggest going out for the day ,asking her out for lunch and so on Good Luck !

Perpetuallysingle · 02/12/2019 15:36

This could have been written about my parents (a similar age) with added in narcissism and emotional abuse. It's awful but my mum chooses it and has chosen it for years even over the wellbeing of her children. I still live with the after effects of their shit relationship now. In all honesty I've emotionally checked out of it all, I need to focus on me and my own family. Best you can do is signpost to help and be a sounding board but she has to want to make change. Sounds like my mum though in that she has resigned herself to her fate.

Kit19 · 02/12/2019 15:39

OP there is some more research being done on domestic abuse and older people

www.independentage.org/ageism-plus/ageism-plus-blog/news-media/suffering-domestic-abuse-later-life

you could try calling Independent Age for some advice but sadly unless your mum is prepared to do something there is not much you can do x

TwinklyTwinkle · 02/12/2019 15:50

This is really sad. It's never too late but I can see how your mum probably thinks it is. Maybe the two of you could go on a holiday together (somehow without your dad?) Or even just a girls only Spa day if you can't go away, and give her a sense of her worth again. She should understand it has a detrimental effect on you too. Even if you can't convince her to leave him, maybe you could convince her to talk to him about how he makes her feel or learn some assertiveness techniques? Maybe if she tries to make some changes now rather than just leaving things how they are, she'll find some strength and at least know she tried? Alternatively, get some support for yourself through an organisation and see if they can give you some tips to help support your mum to leave.

SaskiaRembrandt · 02/12/2019 17:06

I have actually told my dad many times how I feel, but haven't for a long time, as nothing ever changed and all he did was act resentful towards me and say that it had nothing to do with me

You could try telling him again, and point out it does have something to do with you because, unlike him, you love your mother and don't want to see her being treated as a drudge. But, he probably won't take any notice - why would he? He's used to having someone wait in him hand and foot, it won't occur to him that a) it's wrong, b) that might not always be the case.

He is a lost cause, but your mother doesn't have to be. I know she's said it's too late for her, but that could be translated a 'please tell me it's not too late, and help me get the fuck out of here'. Let her know you'll help her and that she has somewhere else to go.

And if she does leave, of course he wont like it but not because he loves her, but because he's lost his skivvy.

Longfacenow · 02/12/2019 17:12

I agree you mum isn't a lost cause like your dad. Could you try and encourage her to change her approach or do things to build up her confidence, social network etc so she might start to look at her life choices differently?

diddl · 02/12/2019 17:40

It's obviously a very sad situation, but does your mum want help, & if so, to do what?

Get away completely or just have some time to herself?

AutumnConker · 02/12/2019 17:58

Confused at headline. It’s too late for you, but this is about your mother surely?

NovemberDays · 02/12/2019 18:03

The headline is a quote from her mum, I think, and how she should respond.

AutumnConker · 02/12/2019 18:04

Oh ok, thanks & stand corrected

Interestedwoman · 02/12/2019 18:04

How awful. :(

Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do.

When I was a teenager (as you describe about yourself) I kept saying to my mum that she should leave, due to the atmosphere my dad would cast over the house, his temper etc. One day she turned round after I said it and said 'I've rented a house. We're leaving.'

I'm sorry that hasn't happened for you yet. I think you could keep saying to your mum that she's not stuck, she doesn't have to be with him etc. Statistically, on average she has another 17 years of life. She could spend it without this shit, or stay in it forever, but she doesn't have to stay.

As to him losing the will to live- that's unlikely. As others have said, he'd have to get a grip if she left. Any antics would lead to services being involved, and him getting the help he may need. Part of his implying one way or another that he can't live without her, is manipulation to make her stay.

A grim situation all round. I think for your own health/happiness you need to detach yourself to an extent from trying to change the situation, or hoping for it to be otherwise. Otherwise, you'd be frustrated and miserable all the time. Hugs xxxxx

NovemberDays · 02/12/2019 18:08

I think, and maybe I am being unfair, that if your mum is not willing to change the situation in any way, then she is rather burdening you with everything she is telling you and saying.

She can contact Women’s Aid who will support her even if she does not wish to leave.

I think you do need to have some boundaries how much of this you take on board. They are both adults. My parents are similar - in entirely different ways - their marriage is abusive and dysfunctional but it has now gone on for almost fifty years. It massively damaged me and my own relationships and neither of them seem willing to change it, and any comments out of place they simply closed ranks. So my mother would complain but if I said anything, she would take my dad’s side and same with my dad. You are their child but this is not your problem to solve.

I am sorry I have only read this quickly, I will read it properly and see if I have anything more constructive to add.

Goldenchildsmum · 02/12/2019 19:09

I think, and maybe I am being unfair, that if your mum is not willing to change the situation in any way, then she is rather burdening you with everything she is telling you and saying.

Yup

I don't think 65 is old. Change is perfectly possible for your mother imo

Perpetuallysingle · 02/12/2019 19:38

Totally agree November. I always saw my mum as the poor innocent partner in her relationship but actually she enables my dad's awful behaviour. She also likes to play the martyr with it all and pretend like she has no option but to stay.

It's bollocks. She chose this life and has chosen never to try and change it. I have put up emotional boundaries with it all and feel so much better for it.

Lweji · 02/12/2019 22:03

I don't think he'd want to live anymore.

I suspect that your belief in this is a contributing factor in the status quo. Abusers often throw suicide threats.
I do suspect that if you are clear to your mother that you will not hold her responsible for whatever your dad does if she leaves him or leaves him to sort himself out, she may well change her attitude.

Yes, I think you are part of the problem in a way that you don't realise.

PositiveVibez · 02/12/2019 22:15

It is not a generational thing AT ALL, so less of the ageism please.

My mum is 72 and is not her husband's slave, thank you very much.

Your dad is a male chauvinist.

You get them at all ages.

Your mum has enabled his behaviour for years.

By cleaning his piss and fetching and carrying for him, it's become their norm.

He has absolutely no respect for her and my mum got remarried at 68, so you're never too old to find love again.

DesperateElf · 02/12/2019 22:38

Is it possible that your dad is autistic and unable to form close relationships or see other people's points of view? If this is true, would it be possible for your mum to reframe her thinking about what is happening and her role in this?

NovemberDays · 03/12/2019 06:14

Coercive, manipulative behaviour and expecting your wife to literally clean up your shit is not a diagnostic criteria for autism; and even if it were, it behoves on the OP’s dad to have at some point, sought assessment and taken responsibility for his behaviour (not her mum to reframe it).

Can we please stop doing neurodiverse people such a disservice by laying every example of selfish, controlling behaviour at their doorstep?

crabb · 03/12/2019 06:39

Why don't you take your Mum away for a few days, and leave him to shift for himself? Give both of them a taste of life on the other side.

Frenchw1fe · 03/12/2019 06:47

Does your dm live near enough that you could join some evening class or club and go every week followed by the pub?
The thought of being old and having spent my life as a skivvy to a man who never took me out would finish me.

itsmecathycomehome · 03/12/2019 06:49

I agree with pp who have suggested taking her away for a couple of days. Do more days out together. Point out opportunities in the community for meeting people and making new friends. Ask her questions that allow her to consider what life would be like without him. What sort of home would she make, what hobbies would she take up.

In time let her know that you would help her, and that she could have decades of freedom. If drawing up a list of pros and cons, what would be better and what would be worse about living without him.

I wouldn't bother talking to your dad. You've tried, and it changes nothing.

TigerDater · 03/12/2019 08:43

Is it normal for men to piss on the floor in the way you describe? No man in my life has ever done this.

Form a plan OP. Work out what changes from him your DM needs from what your DM has told you. Run this list past her. Agree with her that you and she will stage an intervention with him during which you both will present him the list. Set a timescale during which the list of behaviours must be met. Review performance after that period. Decide on next steps.

Or leave them to it.

Zaphodsotherhead · 03/12/2019 08:59

Elderly men can be a bit 'dribbly' Tiger, I don't think OP is implying that he deliberately pissed on the floor.