It's too late for me. I'm stuck. What do I say to that?

[SaltedCaramelWithEverything]

Hi,

I'm going to try and condence this as much as possible, as it could turn into an essay.

My parents have been together 40+ years and I don't think either of them have been happy for the majority of it, but for different reasons.

My dad is 70, a lover of routine, stays in his safety zone, is generally resentful and is completely reliant on my mum....for everything. That's no exaggeration. In some ways, you could say it's a generational thing. I.e my mum washes his clothes, cooks for him, packs for him, buys his clothes etc, but that's not just usually. That's all the time. My dad has never bought himself a pair of socks even. He is clueless and when they are on a shopping trip, he will stand there like a giant child, while she holds up clothes and he will get mardy when it takes longer than he would like. Again, like a child.

All this is incredibly annoying and of course, it's wrong. However, what concerns me more is his complete lack of respect for her.

For example, he will leave his (clearly used) underwear on the floor, daily and expect my mum to pick them up. He never cleans the toilet after himself and yes, will expect my mum to go in with a loo brush. They were just staying at our house and she was on her hands and knees in our bathroom, mopping up his wee from the floor I was furious on her behalf, but not surprised, which is the saddest part. Not only does he do this, but he also completely ignores her most of the time. He has never taken her out fgs! They go out, but he has never taken her out. Never. This genuinely did surprise me and something I only just found out.

I said, as I always do, that she should flat out refuse to do it (the clearing up his wee), but when she has refused, he goes into 'you clearly don't love me like you used to' mode and goes into this self pitying, wallowing, depressive state. He is depressed and I really pushed him to get help for this, 10 or so years ago. That said, it doesn't excuse this behaviour.

My mum is mid 60's and is naturally a happy, positive person, but she recently told me that it's too late for her now and that he's basically turned out her light. Heart breaking isn't the word. I cried after they left this time. I have always been angry and sad for my mum, but this time I saw it differently. I didn't see her as my mum, I saw her just as a woman who has missed out on the basic joys of life.

Is it too late? It can't be. How do I help her?

My dad loves my mum to pieces. She is his world, but he treats her so appallingly. I forget the extent of it tbh. Most of the time it's just not spoken about.

My dad wouldn't be able to cope without my mum. Practically or emotionally. He wouldn't want to live and she knows this. I suspect that's why she stays.

He also ignores me most of the time and whereas I know he loves me, I have always been sad that we don't have a better relationship. He has never bought me a present, a card...he has never even called me for a chat. He doesn't know me and I don't think he has any interest in getting to know me. I get jealous when I see father/daughters together and he actually shows interest. It crushes me tbh. This isn't about me though. I've made my peace, to an extent, that this is the relationship that we will always have.

I just don't know what to do. As much of an arse as he can be, I love him and I worry about him, but I can't stand by and hear my mum say these things and ignore them.

Any advice on how I go about this? I'm devastated.

Thanks

I think that phrase was a bit controlling. I don't think it's a generational thing as my parents dont behave in this way. Im afraid that your mum brought this on her self. She needs to start teaching him how to be more independent. Otherwise what's he going to do if he becomes alone?!

If your mum stopped doing things, whilst he might start with guilt tripping her back into slavery, he might well go into verbal and physical aggression.
I wonder if that's what your mum means by "it's too late for me".
If he's a chauvinist then it's unlikely anything you say or suggest will get taken up or even thought about.
It's best left to professionals.
The scary thing is that your mum won't live forever and if she carries on her hands and knees she's likely going to cause herself a mischief and be in a lot of pain/unable to manage the day to day things.
Your dad will then learn the hard way in caring for himself.

He might have been a bit young for National Service though, that ended in 1963. My dad did NS and was an absolute whizz around the house!

What @FizzyGreenWater said. Every word.

Others are saying it too. It's got to be really difficult to see as it's your dad and it's so sad. I'm sorry your mum has accepted this life.

I would let your Mum know what you think of it and let her know you're there for her and she has options.

I don't know about talking to your dad about it.

My dad loves my mum to pieces. She is his world, but he treats her so appallingly.

You and your mother are caught up in this ridiculous myth. Look at what he does and how he treats her. You say yourself he treats her appallingly.

Look at how he treats people he respects. Would he piss on the toilet floor at work if he knew his manager would be the next one in the room?

I would say to your mum, "You don't have to live with him. He might live another 30 years and those years will be worse than the previous ones. Why not leave and have a chance at happiness? I will be there to help you every step of the way."

It's her choice

We all make choices

No, not a generational thing. My 89 year old father still cooks for my mum. His older brothers always cleaned the toilets and bathrooms for their stay at home wives.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

When I say "generational", I mean cooking, cleaning etc, not the general disrespect. I understand that not all men were domestically clueless, but gender roles were much more a thing in my parents generation and before.

I do think that my mum has a certain amount of responsibility, for allowing this to continue. She should have either put her foot down with the idea that things would change and if they didn't, then yes, she should have left. I get all that.

That's not happened though. I know I can't fix it. I know all I can do is support her.

I don't think this is a choice she made, I suspect it has crept up on her and she has become so ground down and feels so defeated that she doesn't see a way out.
He won't change because he has everything arranged exactly the way he wants it. Could she be persuaded to go away with you for a few days? Doesn't have to be far, or for too long, just enough for her to have a taste of how it is to not be a slave.
But yes, do be careful about the situation escalating if he is challenged. He likes how his life is and he will not give it up easily. Perhaps speak to Women's Aid or similar to get advice about how best to help. And keep the conversation going- while she is open and talking about it, you have a chance to help.

I've had people ask me to do various things & I've said NO !

So there is a choice

These people have had to do it themselves or find someone else to do it for them

Of course the FIL could clean, cook, buy clothes, but he probably has no interest
If something happens to his wife, he will have to do everything himself

How would your father react to you sitting him down and telling him, in no uncertain terms, that he is treating your mum like a slave and you're disgusted with him? If he feels some kind of social pressure to treat your mum nicely and not piss all over the bathroom (eww) then he might rein himself in.

Probably not though, he's been treated like a god for the past 40 years and he'll not want to go back to being a man.

Your poor mum.

@PippiDeLena, I know. I feel terrible.

To those saying that he would get on with things if he had to, well yes, he would be capable of learning how to use the washing machine, oven, shop for his own clothes...learn to use a toilet brush , but he wouldn't see the point in anything.
I don't think he'd want to live anymore. Obviously that doesn't mean my mum should have to stay with him, but I can understand that that is an added worry.

I have actually told my dad many times how I feel, but haven't for a long time, as nothing ever changed and all he did was act resentful towards me and say that it had nothing to do with me. He forgets that my mum tells me everything.

but gender roles were much more a thing in my parents generation and before.

As a person of your parent's generation, again I say NO.

There are countless threads on MN from young women living with these type of men. It's not a generational thing, its an entitled male thing, and the women who are slowly ground down into being enablers of this entitlement.

It is noted that useless-at-home divorced/widowed men quickly find another woman/enabler to cater to them.

he wouldn't see the point in anything.

I'm sure he wouldn't. All control would have been ripped from him.

Maybe he could, then, change his bullying ways - if your mother decided to take responsibility and make different choices?

Again, it's not a generational thing.
My mum is in her 80s and so was a young adult in the swinging 60s when a lot of these generational role began to unravel.She did the expected thing as a stay at home mum but my dad could and did do his bit too.And respected my mum.
I'm almost 60 and definatly don't do the little wife role .

This is a codependent relationship and your mother has clearly been ground down by years of abuse and nobody having her back.

My guess is he uses rage/ helplessness to control and manipulate , this is abusive.

When you saw/ heard that your mother was clearing up his piss, why didn’t you say something to him?

You are both enabling his behaviour and allowing him to continue the cycle of abuse.

Problem is he will be set in his ways, probably high in narcissistic traits.

Your mum will be ground down and brain washed.

Can you teach an old dog new tricks.... probably, but you will have to be firm and not give in , or your mum needs to leave. But she needs a lot of support either way, if she stays or goes.

Good luck.

I want to add to the others here who are saying it's not a generational thing. My DH is older than your father, and I'm older than your mother. Not a chance in hell would he behave as your father does and not a chance in hell I'd behave as your mother does.

My H has changed as many nappies, cleaned as many toilets, cooked almost as many meals as I have.
Our generation were teenagers in the 'swinging sixties', part of the 'burn your bra' brigade, the same generation as the women who went on strike for equal pay. No way is your parent's lifestyle a generational thing.

You seem to be mistaking dependency for love. Needing someone to cook your meals and pick up your underwear and getting tearful at the prospect of losing their services is not the same as loving someone. If you love someone you don't expect them to routinely clean up your piss.

Have you told your father he's a pig? Perhaps that would be a start.
As would taking your mum out regularly and organising weekends or trips away with her, so that she can have a taste of independence and he can learn to look after himself.

It's not too late for your mum to divorce and enjoy this last phase of her life as an independent woman. Talk to her about that.

My mum just left my Dad, mid 70s. It can be done, she’s happy and I’m happy to watch her have some years without him.

I'm trying to help and I'm looking for advice, but I don't think it's fair that I'm being accused of being part of the problem, as some posters are suggesting.

I can't control how my dad behaves or how my mum responds and as I said up thread, yes, I have told my dad that I think he's being disrespectful. A lot as a teenager. It used to really upset me, but I would be told by both of them that it had nothing to do with me. Now, as an adult with DC of my own, my mum opens up more and is more transparent about the reality.

She doesn't have any friends anymore, so I think she tells me things she'd rather not or more, regret telling me at a later stage. And yes, the lack of friends is definitely to do with my dad. He would make her feel guilty as hell for going out and enjoying herself, without him. Not with words, but with his attitude.

I am actually incandescent with rage reading this. He has done a number on you both. At points in my life I have felt like I've not wanted to live anymore, but I've not expected people to clean up my pish on the floor or pick up my skiddy pants. This excuse of MH is repulsive and insulting to people who struggle with their MH. I do think you enable his abuse but only because its your normal, it is so sad to read. I hope something changes for you and your mum.

They are probably not going to change

What you can suggest is that they go on some days out with or without you
Or weekends away
Or holidays
What do they have to look forward to
Look in their local area for free things to do & other paid events Xmas lights turn on, Xmas church festival, volunteer, carol service, winter walks, join a club

Some things don't cost much

Does your DM have access to any of her own money ?

At their age, they need to start doing things

If not, what is their excuse ?

She's already opening up to you so maybe you could approach a local organisation in your area that supports women in abusive relationships and can offer some suggestions on how to help her. She needs to know that she can have a good, interesting, happy life without your father. The Freedom Programme has been mentioned but there are others.

And if you can help her by having her over (make some excuse about needing help with the children or something) and giving her the opportunity to talk and just get away from him, that would be a start.
Yes, your mum's been complicit in this relationship dynamic over the years but it sounds as if she's trying to tell you she wants things to change. People say 'It's too late for me, I'm stuck' in the hope that others will say 'No, it's never too late to move on' and guide them towards the exit.

If she leaves him, he will make a big melodramatic fuss and try to get other women in the family to be his servants. If you all refuse, he will have another woman in a few months.

The most shocking sentence in your op is where you say he loves her. He doesn’t. He depends on her and let’s her do everything. That’s not love.

On the other hand I agree your mum has to take responsibility for her own behaviour (scrubbing his pee from the bathroom floor on her hands and knees is her choice.)

My parents have always had clearly defined gender roles but my father worked and my mother didn’t until later in life.

I do agree it’s not necessarily a generational thing though as there is thread after thread on here about lazy entitled men who are disrespectful towards their partners and I’m afraid your father is one of them.

I also don’t think it’s your responsibility to do anything apart from support your mum.