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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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To be very concerned that this woman has children (trigger C.S.Abuse)

313 replies

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 14:15

Name changed for this for obvious reasons.

When I was twelve years old I made a friend, through a mutual friend, who was sixteen coming on 17 at the time.

No obvious problems at home and she came from a good family, supportive parents etc. Relatively nice life. I mention this incase anybody wonders whether she was vulnerable.

I however came from a single parent family, absent father and poor motherly parenting provisions. I was a bit of a lost soul. Damaged if you will.

The 16 year old (I'll call her J) would often go around with older guys (20-30) and would encourage me to tag along, drink and take drugs. It was commonplace for her to sleep with the men, often at her initiation. I firmly believe there was no grooming involved, she knew what she was doing and didn't receive payment or any incentive to go these things. She pursued these people for a 'good time' and enjoyed the lifestyle.

I looked up to her and began imitating her behaviour, drugs, drinking and having sex with older males. J encouraged this.

J would tell some of the men I was older (15) and tell me to do the same, but for the most part they knew how old I was.

As I got older I distanced myself from J because I felt increasingly extremely uncomfortable about the lifestyle, still just a child myself I was aware enough to know it was wrong. I developed other, healthier friendships.

I was friends with J from 12 years until almost 15 years old.

Now as an adult I reflect on this period of my life with sadness, shame and disgust. I stumbled across J on social media today by accident, she came up in our mutual friends, and I'm left with alot of conflicting emotions including anger toward her and confusion as to why she would have encouraged those things when I was just a little girl.

I couldn't fathom replicating her behaviour, when i was 16 I looked at a 12 year old as a young child and despite my own past would have reported anything of the sort to the police, not encouraged it.

My DM knew about some of this, useless as she is she didn't encourage me to report it. She is what people would call 'slow' and just didn't seem to get that you need to protect your daughter from things like this. I think she thought it was all my choice, which it was, but I was caving to peer pressure and at such a young age don't have the capacity to give righteous consent in the first place.

J now has children of her own, as do i. I feel uncomfortable about somebody with her attitude toward underage sex (which I now acknowledge as child abuse) having children.

I feel it's too late to do anything about all of this, it was years ago and I have no proof but I'm left with scars that pop up every now and then like today.

AIBU to feel this way towards her? At 16-17 can she be excused as just knowing no better? Is my anger misplaced? fwiw I am angry at the males too, but she was my friend.

OP posts:
MaryPeary · 16/10/2019 15:15

OP, I understand where you're coming from and think that you are the one who was there and knew the person involved.

I'm a bit bemused at people who are saying that by definition she must have been abused because she was sleeping with strangers, and encouraging you to do so, aged 16. Would they say the same if she was 21? 18? 17? Where do you draw the line? At which point is a young woman credited with some agency in this and considered to have possibly made her own decisions, without having been groomed?

Of course, it is possible that there was something awful in this girl's background that you didn't know about, and it's possible that she was groomed. However, it seems a huge step to go from "possibly groomed" to "must have been groomed or she wouldn't have been doing that".

Presumably this was some years ago, so the climate around underage sex and safeguarding will have been a bit different from that today. The men involved with her may well have thought that it was OK to be sleeping with a 16 year-old who was a bit wild and who was actively pursuing them. I'd be interested to know what other people think about when this would be OK. It sounds almost as if some on here would like the age of consent to be changed, or for there to be some sort of graduated age of consent where, from age 16, you can consent to sleeping with people up to age 20 but not over. There's no excuse for any of them sleeping with you when you were under 16, though; everyone knows the age of legal consent in this case.

Anyway, regarding your question about whether this affects the safety of her own children. I expect that becoming a mother has sharpened her awareness of the vulnerability of young girls in a way that nothing else possibly could. It is possible, though, that she still lacks judgement in that area. It's hard to know what you could do here. Maybe you could speak to the NSPCC advice line and just ask their thoughts on it all? They might have some guidance to offer.

LonginesPrime · 16/10/2019 15:17

I wonder how many of you would feel if your 12 year old was being lead around to have sex with adults by a 16 year old

OP, what happened to you is awful. But it's the fact you're blaming the other child involved that people are taking issue with.

It's the adults who were having sex with you both who are responsible for your suffering, not the other victim.

AnneTwackie · 16/10/2019 15:17

This is really sad to read, I’m sorry that happened to you. I do think your ex friend is partly responsible for not protecting you (though she doesn’t sound like she was behaving rationally for whatever reason) more so your mother, but it was the men who were the perpetrators. I think talking to a professional as others have said would benefit you. I think the fact she has children of her own is not your issue.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 15:18

Thank you Mary, for not invalidating my feelings and putting across some of my own opinions albeit far more eloquently

OP posts:
Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 15:20

Perhaps I was wrong to mention the fact she has children.

Her eldest is not too different in age to what I was at the time, that is why I felt triggered I suppose.

Obviously it's emotionally charged for me so I accept my POV may differ from the Majority.

OP posts:
JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 16/10/2019 15:21

OP I find it interesting that you are concerned for the children of this woman and not for any children that come into contact with the adult men who were plying you with drink and drugs and having sex with you then aged 12.

snowbear66 · 16/10/2019 15:21

I think that she dragged you down with her because you were vulnerable.
Maybe you reminded her of how she was at 12, and by dragging you into it she was normalising what had happened to her as a younger child. Perhaps it made her feel more powerful and in control of these men to bring you along at their suggestion to please them and get well in with them.
It really isn't normal for grown men to be interested in sleeping with a 12-year-old child and so the circle of men that she befriended were obviously paedophiles.

LucileDuplessis · 16/10/2019 15:22

The thing that we can all agree on is that the men who had sex with you when you were only 12 were very, very wrong.

I guess you're blaming the 16 year old as much as or more than the adults involved because you knew her and thought of her as a friend and she betrayed you, whereas the men are nameless strangers? I can see how you would feel that way. I do agree with other posters though that the lion's share of the blame lies with the men.

What you went through was awful, OP. I'm so, so sorry.

Lamentations · 16/10/2019 15:23

I'm glad I'm not held accountable for the things I did when I was 16. You were very young but she was just a kid too. She is highly unlikely to start pimping her children out.

Sorry for what happened to you though OP.

Josette77 · 16/10/2019 15:24

You sound more angry at her than the men who had sex with you. I don't understand that. And I'm also an abuse survivor.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 15:24

At 16 she had agency to decide if she wanted to have sex, she had no problem rejecting or accepting advances she was interested in. Similarly, if somebody was flirting and she wasn't interested she would say so in no uncertain terms.

She was out spoken and confident.

I think any 16 year old redirecting somebody to try it on with a 12 year old because they weren't interested in them themselves is quite pale IMO.

Why not just say no thanks mate, why encourage them to try and shag a kid.

This was a stranger at a party may I add, nobody that "groomed" her in the two or so hours she knew them.

OP posts:
mikulkin · 16/10/2019 15:24

OP you are not listening.
You really don't know what grooming is.

Just because you saw her actively buying drugs, inviting men doesn't mean she hasn't been groomed. She was groomed and then such behavior became normal to her, and because she normalized it for herself she did the same for 12 year old one.

Nobody is saying she did the right thing but being so black and white in your judgment is also not right. You cannot say 16 year old one should know better, because groomed 16 year old one with her own troubles may normalize such behaviour to herself. An quoting court case which you don't know every detail of is not correct too.

Your anger is completely misplaced. You should be angry at those men not at her.

And the fact that she sneered at you when she met you 7-8 years ago doesn't mean anything - you have no idea what goes in her head when she thinks about that times.

You really need help to deal with your past and feelings associated with it.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 15:26

Angry at her because I adored her as a friend and role model, yes.

Of course I'm angry at the men but she was supposed to care about me, and made out she did.

I feel betrayed by her.

OP posts:
Thegullfromhull · 16/10/2019 15:28

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JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 16/10/2019 15:30

Of course I'm angry at the men but she was supposed to care about me, and made out she did.

Your OP is about concern for her children though- not anger. That concern would surely apply, in a much bigger measure, for any children these men have contact with?

TryingAndFailing39 · 16/10/2019 15:30

I don’t think posters are saying what happened to you wasn’t dreadful, but you’re not reading or acknowledging the very valid points made about J. If she had been groomed for a number of years she may present in a way that seemed very confident and in control but this can be a sign that someone has been groomed. What she did to you wasn’t right but your anger is stopping you from seeing the bigger picture.
You didn’t say she shouldn’t have children but have repeatedly said it concerns you. I think this is because you’ve not dealt with what happened to you and that might be the best way to move forward not dwelling on J’s life now.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 15:30

Ok I regret posting now, i should have never tried to talk about this here in the first place.

All taken on board.

OP posts:
Unshriven · 16/10/2019 15:31

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SunshineCake · 16/10/2019 15:32

You say you are "uncomfortable" with her having a child. Why ?

If you aren't implying she is going to cause harm to her child then learn to use your words better.

Thechangednameoftheday · 16/10/2019 15:32

I don't dwell on the woman, she appeared on my social media - brought back feelings I've suppressed.

I'm not going to comment on the thread any more as I'm not helping myself but thank you for the replies I have been listening.

OP posts:
Thegullfromhull · 16/10/2019 15:32

Absolutely I agree with @unshriven
16 year olds are really vulnerable, through their young young age as much as anything else.

Dangerfloof · 16/10/2019 15:33

Would they say the same if she was 21? 18? 17? Where do you draw the line? At which point is a young woman credited with some agency in this and considered to have possibly made her own decisions without having been groomed?
Good point, where is the line drawn?
For me it's only recently that I have stopped looking for validation from men. Its recent that i have finally managed to distance myself from my God awful childhood. It's very recent that I dont think almost constantly about my God awful childhood, and my reactions to it. So my agency in my life actually began probably 5 years ago. How old am I? 50. That's how long it's taken me to finally gain some control of my life and stop constantly thinking and thinking and nothing changing.
Yet others will have gone through worse and be better at life than me.

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 16/10/2019 15:33

OP have to had any counselling? It’s worth trying to work through these feelings and you can of course report these men. You could report J too if you want to.

Areyoufree · 16/10/2019 15:34

If you persist in the atitudes you have @Thechangednameoftheday you will be putting any children you have/have responsibility for, in danger.

That's a step too far. This is a horrible, horrible thread.

OP: I see what you're saying, and agree with the post by MaryPeary.

TryingAndFailing39 · 16/10/2019 15:34

I don't dwell on the woman

I didn’t suggest you did dwell on her. I said going forward it’s best you try not to.
This is the problem with this thread. Many posters are trying to be kind but honest and you’re being very defensive.

Some posters are being unnecessarily unkind and I have reported a couple of those posts.