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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Christmas - can you help with this problem re BiL?

64 replies

Astrabees · 10/10/2019 14:45

I have name changed for this as the circumstances are unusual.
I am very happily ;married to DH. He has a brother a few years older.
They are on good terms but not close, we would usually see BiL and his wife around Christmas time for an afternoon or dinner visit but on the whole they seemed closer to his wife's family. He has not been much of an uncle to my two sons and never remembers their birthdays. BiL is strangely obsessive about his hobbies, which are things like trains. He is a bit argumentative and drinks a bit, but in general is not a bad person. He is retired.
We were aware that BiL and his wife were not getting on for years, but this year she decided she could not live with him any more as he had rejected all her proposals for a happier life. They sold their pleasant 3 bed house with a big garden and could just about have bought a small flat each out of the proceeds. SiL will be doing this but is living in rented short term until she moves to a different part of the country.
BiL has decided (against all our advice to buy a flat) to live "off grid" and has bought a campervan, which he intends to reside in full time.
While he was waiting to collect the camper van we agreed it was the decent thing to invite him to stay with us for a fortnight. It was a very difficult time, he did not even put so much as a cup in the dishwasher, told me washing was "womens work" and was reluctant to use the washing machine, was sometimes drunk and argumentative and has right wing political views. We did our best but DH found it "the most difficult two weeks of his life". Now he often pops round to see us, which is fine, but previously we did not seem to be very important to him and we saw him once a year if that.
We thought he would be off on adventures but for a lot of the time he has lived on camp sites quite close to our home. He now says he is coming to a nearby campsite for the winter and will be able to see a lot more of us (gulp)
Both our parents are dead and my brother is a long way away so these days Christmas is just us and our two grown up sons, who come back home for a few days. I treasure our Christmases, both the boys are great cooks and we have a great time making merry, chatting and playing board games. Christmas is very important to all of us and these few days are very much the glue that keeps us together. I know that one day the boys will not want to come back or will have partners with other family traditions, so every year we do this is very special.
We are sure that BiL will not get a Christmas invite from anyone else.
I'm not an unkind person and my better nature says that I cannot let him spend Christmas in a camper van on his own.
I also know that if we invite him for Christmas somethign will happen to really upset me and that in any event it won't be our lovely Christmas .
DH says he feels the same but that we just have to invite him for Christmas day with an invite to stay the night into 26th because it would just be too unkind not to . Now I feel trapped and upset.
Part of me feels that he has made some very poor choices and he should have to put up with the consequences, but the minute I start to think that I fee a bit ashamed of it. Then when I think I've decided i just don't want Christmas at all.

I've got to do it, haven't I?

OP posts:
Aquamarine1029 · 10/10/2019 14:50

I've got to do it, haven't I?

Absolutely not, and it's bizarre that you or your husband would feel that way. He's an obnoxious, useless bore of a drunk. No wonder his wife left him. I wouldn't even consider ruining the precious time you have with your own children. I would invite him for lunch on Boxing Day and that's it, period.

Idontwanttotalk · 10/10/2019 14:56

I think so. BIL might be entirely different at Christmas and could enjoy playing games etc. It might do him good. Perhaps your DH could rope him in to help him load the dishwasher after dinner or clear away wrapping paper.

Perhaps DH could warn him not to get drunk to prevent it spoiling the day.

tobedtoMNandfart · 10/10/2019 14:56

^^ you do not have to.

Boundaries. You & DH need to sit down and agree in advance what is /not acceptable.
And the consequences.

I'm not saying what these limits should be but eg
It's unacceptable that he upset you in your home ever on Xmas day. If this happens your DH will ask him to leave.

You are both kind and it's understandable that you feel you should invite him. But agree before that this does not mean a guaranteed invite every year regardless of behaviour.

Or you are willing to invite him but not overnight as time with your boys is precious to you. Ask your DH to respect your wishes on this.

Etc etc

tobedtoMNandfart · 10/10/2019 14:57

FWIW you don't owe him this. And yes his chickens are coming home to roost.

NaomiFromMilkShake · 10/10/2019 15:00

I've got to do it, haven't I?

No

HTH

Walnutwhipster · 10/10/2019 15:02

The comment about 'women's work' would have been enough to me to ask him to leave and no he wouldn't be invited to ruin Christmas.

Caselgarcia · 10/10/2019 15:08

I'd ask him to come for lunch on boxing day, making it clear you have plans for the evening. That way you aren't excluding him. Why should you tolerate him on Christmas Day?

dreichsky · 10/10/2019 15:09

I would invite him for Boxing Day with the clear message that while he is welcome he would be expected to pull his weight clearing and washing up.
I also wouldn't extend the invitation to overnight.
It is entirely his own choice to be living in a camper van.

tobedtoMNandfart · 10/10/2019 15:10

So when he stayed for a fortnight it was "the most difficult 2 weeks of DH life". So is DH inviting him to stay Xmas night in the hopes that it will also be "the most difficult night of the year" at Xmas?
It's likely that you are both too kind for your own good.

Astrabees · 10/10/2019 15:17

The Boxing Day suggestion is one that might work. The last time I felt like this was when DS2 was 3 months old and my family ( mother, MiL brother etc. ) all invited themselves for Christmas and I simply didn't realise I was taking on more than I could cope with and was very grumpy with them and didn't enjoy it at all. We are seeing the boys next weekend and will discuss it with them too. If I look at the reverse situation I'm sure if DH suddenly found himself on his own for Christmas he would not want to spend it with his brother.
I don't think he will embrace our usual activities, he will just drone on and on about his latest boring hobby, and talk about conspiracy theories.

OP posts:
FawnDrench · 10/10/2019 15:30

Perhaps you could all book somewhere local to meet up for Boxing Day lunch.
Then BIL wouldn't need to grace you with his presence and attitude, you would get a day off from all your "womanly domestic chores" and you can sweetly wave bye-bye after a few hours and happily resume your lovely family Christmas.

CampingItUp · 10/10/2019 15:36

I would invite him for Boxing Day lunch.

Or have a Family Christmas Eve all
Day, Christmas Eve family dinner, family Christmas morning, and invite him for Christmas Dinner at about 5, home at 8.. Relax with a bottle of port.

I honestly don’t see why you should inherit him because another woman has freed herself.

And make 4 of you miserable over your Christmas.

HollowTalk · 10/10/2019 15:42

Do you think for one minute that he'd do this for you?

Astrabees · 10/10/2019 15:47

HollowTalk, no. But I would be quite comfortable with being on my own at Christmas should circumstances dictate.

OP posts:
ProfessorPootle · 10/10/2019 15:50

I’m not sure you ‘have to do it’, it’s a very difficult situation. Could you invite him the weekend before for a Sunday lunch? Or day after Boxing Day? Explain you have a very quiet Christmas just with dc? He is an adult and never made much effort before now. What does your dh think about it, can you find a compromise?

My dh has tons of family abroad, we’ve had a lot of trouble over the years with adult siblings, cousins and nephews turning up and staying for months. My dh would never say no. I put my foot down a few years ago after developing severe PND, I’m sure it was a factor, had all these adult males living in our tiny flat when dc were babies, made me miserable.

A couple of years ago we were at a cousins of dh for dinner on Christmas Eve and as we left to take dc home to bed (about 8.30pm) I heard bil mention to dh that they were staying at ours. He wasn’t speaking in English so I waited til we were outside in the car to check this is what he said. And yes he had invited himself, wife and kids to stay over at ours at 8.30pm on Christmas Eve. Dh felt like he couldn’t say anything. I was so angry, they don’t celebrate Christmas, had no presents for their kids and they were going to stay at ours where we just had a small single room as a guest bed, so would have ended up on sofas downstairs. Our kids were 4 and 6 and would totally have not understood why Father Christmas didn’t bring them presents never mind the fact we were leaving about 11am to drive to my parents for Christmas Day / Boxing Day and had no food in the house. Dh was totally spineless about it but luckily his cousin who’d hosted the meal had heard bil and told him he couldn’t invite himself to ours and booked them a cab home.

ProfessorPootle · 10/10/2019 15:53

I also like pp suggestion of meeting him for lunch on Boxing Day, lots of pubs do a nice lunch and they’re not overly expensive and you get to leave at the end! His comment about ‘women’s work’ would make me never invite him to my house. Good luck

Windygate · 10/10/2019 15:56

If DH feels so strongly that his DB mustn't be left alone Christmas and Boxing Day he can always stay in the camper van with him. You and the DC can have the Christmas you want.

smugmug · 10/10/2019 15:56

I wouldn't invite him for Christmas at all , he's sounds completely obnoxious, no wonder his ex wife called it a day on the marriage , don't let him ruin your happy family time , or alternatively go away over Christmas with your sons

I suspect the camper van life is so he can spend more on booze

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/10/2019 15:57

Perhaps you could all book somewhere local to meet up for Boxing Day lunch.
Then BIL wouldn't need to grace you with his presence and attitude, you would get a day off from all your "womanly domestic chores" and you can sweetly wave bye-bye after a few hours and happily resume your lovely family Christmas.

FawnDrench's suggestion is a brilliant solution to my mind. Gets round everything and keeps dreary BIL's capacity for causing bad feeling to the minimum.

MsPavlichenko · 10/10/2019 15:58

Actually he owes you a meal ( two weeks worth). Difficult to host in a van but he should be offering to take you out on Boxing Day.

He sounds obnoxious. You owe him nothing.

SevenStones · 10/10/2019 16:00

No you don't.

If your obligation overrides common sense then invite him for Boxing Day lunch with the expectation he leaves.

Don't ruin Christmas.

GooodMythicalMorning · 10/10/2019 16:01

I also say do boxing day instead. we now have no one over christmas day and go nowhere after a couple of disasters and just have a lovely quiet day at home.

InvisibleWomenMustBeRead · 10/10/2019 16:03

Do not let him ruin your Christmas. Boxing Day lunch is a great idea, ideally out at a pub or restaurant where you can say goodbye there and head home afterwards without him. Stay strong Op and don't be bullied or guilted into doing something you don't want to do.

Shinesweetfreedom · 10/10/2019 16:04

Do it once it will be expected every Christmas.
Not a chance from me.
He isn’t an elderly parent on his own.
He is an obnoxious man who’s own wife left him because of how he is.
Inviting him will just justify his lousy behaviour.

ImaginaryCat · 10/10/2019 16:11

If I was spoiling for a fight (which by the sounds of him I always would in his presence), I'd say he can come on Xmas Day on the condition he cooks the whole of Xmas dinner, freeing you up to spend more time with your boys. I'd look him in the eye and assure him I meant it. That would inevitably lead him to make an offensive comment about women's work, at which point I'd declare "and that right there is why you're spending Xmas Day alone!"

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