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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Christmas - can you help with this problem re BiL?

64 replies

Astrabees · 10/10/2019 14:45

I have name changed for this as the circumstances are unusual.
I am very happily ;married to DH. He has a brother a few years older.
They are on good terms but not close, we would usually see BiL and his wife around Christmas time for an afternoon or dinner visit but on the whole they seemed closer to his wife's family. He has not been much of an uncle to my two sons and never remembers their birthdays. BiL is strangely obsessive about his hobbies, which are things like trains. He is a bit argumentative and drinks a bit, but in general is not a bad person. He is retired.
We were aware that BiL and his wife were not getting on for years, but this year she decided she could not live with him any more as he had rejected all her proposals for a happier life. They sold their pleasant 3 bed house with a big garden and could just about have bought a small flat each out of the proceeds. SiL will be doing this but is living in rented short term until she moves to a different part of the country.
BiL has decided (against all our advice to buy a flat) to live "off grid" and has bought a campervan, which he intends to reside in full time.
While he was waiting to collect the camper van we agreed it was the decent thing to invite him to stay with us for a fortnight. It was a very difficult time, he did not even put so much as a cup in the dishwasher, told me washing was "womens work" and was reluctant to use the washing machine, was sometimes drunk and argumentative and has right wing political views. We did our best but DH found it "the most difficult two weeks of his life". Now he often pops round to see us, which is fine, but previously we did not seem to be very important to him and we saw him once a year if that.
We thought he would be off on adventures but for a lot of the time he has lived on camp sites quite close to our home. He now says he is coming to a nearby campsite for the winter and will be able to see a lot more of us (gulp)
Both our parents are dead and my brother is a long way away so these days Christmas is just us and our two grown up sons, who come back home for a few days. I treasure our Christmases, both the boys are great cooks and we have a great time making merry, chatting and playing board games. Christmas is very important to all of us and these few days are very much the glue that keeps us together. I know that one day the boys will not want to come back or will have partners with other family traditions, so every year we do this is very special.
We are sure that BiL will not get a Christmas invite from anyone else.
I'm not an unkind person and my better nature says that I cannot let him spend Christmas in a camper van on his own.
I also know that if we invite him for Christmas somethign will happen to really upset me and that in any event it won't be our lovely Christmas .
DH says he feels the same but that we just have to invite him for Christmas day with an invite to stay the night into 26th because it would just be too unkind not to . Now I feel trapped and upset.
Part of me feels that he has made some very poor choices and he should have to put up with the consequences, but the minute I start to think that I fee a bit ashamed of it. Then when I think I've decided i just don't want Christmas at all.

I've got to do it, haven't I?

OP posts:
Sweetpeach3 · 10/10/2019 23:06

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Christmas is YOUR family time and like you said your sons are grown up now so they soon going to be doing their own thing - maybe I'd of invited him if it was just you and DH an your DS was with their family's but that's in years to come. He chose to live off grid and be on his own. I'd just take him s dinner round of the night time an have a drink with him. Shows you care but Christmas time is your family time
Don't feel guilty. I wouldn't do it xx

croprotationinthe13thcentury · 11/10/2019 00:18

Bollocks to that. No xmas day, no boxing day. Why do people indulge these sexist twats? No wonder they never change.

Talkingmouse · 11/10/2019 00:48

This is a very simple one.

No. Of course you shouldn’t invite him over. You have no need to feel any guilt.

Meet him for a Boxing Day pub lunch only. Done.

HalfManHalfLabrador · 11/10/2019 00:53

You certainly do not ‘have to.’ Don’t be pressured into it. Christmas should be a lovely time not ruined by twats you feel obligated to host

Cornishclio · 11/10/2019 01:15

I don't see why you should have to invite him for Christmas and I certainly would not martyr yourself. Invite him if you want him to come and care enough about him not to see him alone at Christmas but from the sound of it he is a sexist, racist drunk arrogant boor so no way would I have him round. Your house is full as your DC have come back to stay. He has made his own bed by driving his wife away so let him lie in it.

marvellousnightforamooncup · 11/10/2019 08:05

His life choice to be a rude, arrogant boor. His life choice to live in a van. Your choice to let him live with the consequences. Maybe he'll sit in his cold van reflecting on what he's done with his life, perhaps with a visit from some Dickensian ghosts. Very festive.

hellsbellsmelons · 11/10/2019 08:14

Of course you don't have to do it.
Invite him now - for Boxing day.
At least have Christmas day as you usually would.

told me washing was "womens work"
Hardly surprising he finds himself single now is it?
I'd have told him to fuck off right there and then for that comment.
You need some boundaries OP.
He chose this life. He has to deal with the consequences.

Rainbowshine · 11/10/2019 08:17

Get your husband to read material about toxic people and Fear Obligation and Guilt (FOG). He needs to rethink his behaviour and reactions to his brother’s conduct and ask himself why he feels he has to “rescue” him at Christmas.

Astrabees · 11/10/2019 10:00

We have invited him and his wife on Boxing day before, though they usually suggested coming on a later day between Christmas and New year as they were so involved with her family. I n the past when my mother was with us and sil his presence was diluted a bit.
He has not asked for an invite, but DH feels very sorry for him, especially
as he may have mental health issues. He is affable and benign, he simply does not see the impact of his behaviour.
I had a chat with DH yesterday evening as we went out and had some time together. The Boxing Day idea went down well with him, though he still says he will feel guilty on Christmas Day. Christmas is very little work for me now but I still get stressed out and I really don't think I could keep calm with him being there all day.
Thank you all for the advice, the way forward is clearer now.

OP posts:
fedup21 · 11/10/2019 10:13

Who does all the cooking and cleaning away on Christmas Day?

Disfordarkchocolate · 11/10/2019 10:25

He may feel sorry for his brother but does that mean you have to suffer?

Astrabees · 11/10/2019 10:33

Cooking is the team of me, D1, DS2. DH does the clearing up with DS 1&2. In my family we share all the "work"
We both feel sorry for his brother, it is hard to get across that he is odd and eccentric rather than intentionally unpleasant.

OP posts:
Rainbowshine · 11/10/2019 10:39

All the same, why do you have to put up with “odd and eccentric” if it’s uncomfortable? It sounds like people saying someone’s “over sensitive” to “banter” when actually they’ve been subjected to bullying and appalling harassment. It’s code for “this person is poorly behaved but don’t make a fuss there’s a good girl”. If Boxing Day seems a good compromise then promote that. Keep your Christmas Day protected.

Vandree · 11/10/2019 11:46

We have a similar situation with my BIL although he never married. We alternate inviting him on Christmas eve or Boxing day for a meal and we often do a family christmas meal in December for dh's siblings where we go out for a meal and wear our christmas jumpers. It means we dont feel guilty not asking BIL for christmas day. We tried it one year and I was so stressed and he was so rude we said never again. Now we keep the day to ourselves and he books into a hotel overnight which does Christmas Day dinner and he enjoys himself there and we see him the following day for a few hours. Do Christmas Day once and it will always be assumed thats what is happening, we had a hard time saying no.

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