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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Christmas - can you help with this problem re BiL?

64 replies

Astrabees · 10/10/2019 14:45

I have name changed for this as the circumstances are unusual.
I am very happily ;married to DH. He has a brother a few years older.
They are on good terms but not close, we would usually see BiL and his wife around Christmas time for an afternoon or dinner visit but on the whole they seemed closer to his wife's family. He has not been much of an uncle to my two sons and never remembers their birthdays. BiL is strangely obsessive about his hobbies, which are things like trains. He is a bit argumentative and drinks a bit, but in general is not a bad person. He is retired.
We were aware that BiL and his wife were not getting on for years, but this year she decided she could not live with him any more as he had rejected all her proposals for a happier life. They sold their pleasant 3 bed house with a big garden and could just about have bought a small flat each out of the proceeds. SiL will be doing this but is living in rented short term until she moves to a different part of the country.
BiL has decided (against all our advice to buy a flat) to live "off grid" and has bought a campervan, which he intends to reside in full time.
While he was waiting to collect the camper van we agreed it was the decent thing to invite him to stay with us for a fortnight. It was a very difficult time, he did not even put so much as a cup in the dishwasher, told me washing was "womens work" and was reluctant to use the washing machine, was sometimes drunk and argumentative and has right wing political views. We did our best but DH found it "the most difficult two weeks of his life". Now he often pops round to see us, which is fine, but previously we did not seem to be very important to him and we saw him once a year if that.
We thought he would be off on adventures but for a lot of the time he has lived on camp sites quite close to our home. He now says he is coming to a nearby campsite for the winter and will be able to see a lot more of us (gulp)
Both our parents are dead and my brother is a long way away so these days Christmas is just us and our two grown up sons, who come back home for a few days. I treasure our Christmases, both the boys are great cooks and we have a great time making merry, chatting and playing board games. Christmas is very important to all of us and these few days are very much the glue that keeps us together. I know that one day the boys will not want to come back or will have partners with other family traditions, so every year we do this is very special.
We are sure that BiL will not get a Christmas invite from anyone else.
I'm not an unkind person and my better nature says that I cannot let him spend Christmas in a camper van on his own.
I also know that if we invite him for Christmas somethign will happen to really upset me and that in any event it won't be our lovely Christmas .
DH says he feels the same but that we just have to invite him for Christmas day with an invite to stay the night into 26th because it would just be too unkind not to . Now I feel trapped and upset.
Part of me feels that he has made some very poor choices and he should have to put up with the consequences, but the minute I start to think that I fee a bit ashamed of it. Then when I think I've decided i just don't want Christmas at all.

I've got to do it, haven't I?

OP posts:
LittleCandle · 10/10/2019 16:17

My BIL was a drunk. XH insisted we invite him for Christmas after MIL went into a home. He came, pushed the food around on his plate and ate maybe two mouthfuls, then got absolutely plastered. XH thought it was all highly amusing (I certainly didn't and neither did my DDs) and was so pissed when the taxi came to collect him that he couldn't remember his own address. The taxi driver knew him and had often taken him home in that state before. I was disgusted at the waste of food and that he thought it was fine to get as pissed as that when a guest in someone's home. I had another friend as a guest, too, and I was embarrassed that she had to put up with that behaviour. Nothing I said made any difference to how much he drank. He never came again.

BatshitBertha · 10/10/2019 16:26

Many families host difficult family members on Christmas Day. In a perfect world we could just closet ourselves away with our favourite people and ignore all family responsibilities, but that goes against the spirit of Christmas.

ChuckleBuckles · 10/10/2019 16:31

DH says he feels the same but that we just have to invite him for Christmas day with an invite to stay the night into 26th because it would just be too unkind not to

Pat your DH on the hand and say "You are absolutely right dear" book yourself and you DC into a hotel for the Christmas break and leave your DH and his oaf of a brother to it.

What did your DH do to stand up for you when his charming brother declares picking up after himself and acting like an adult when a guest in someone else's home as "women's work"? What did your DH say or do when he brother got pissed and argumentative in your home?

If you have him this Christmas, he will be parked in your front room every Christmas OP, then it will be all family events, then he will be living with you for the winter, as his camper van will be too cold and it would be "unkind" to leave him to cook and clean for himself, be warned that this is the beginning of him moving in by stealth and YOU cleaning up after him.

HollowTalk · 10/10/2019 16:39

This is where you identify as a man. Women's work, my arse.

Chamomileteaplease · 10/10/2019 16:39

Boxing Day is a great idea. Definitely not Christmas Eve because then he might end up staying over.

He's not a nice person. Neither of you enjoy his company and his company sounds like it would have a very detrimental effect on everyone else present.

Hopefully if you know he is coming for Boxing Day you will be able to enjoy Christmas Day guilt free.

Please tell me how you managed to get him to use the washing machine in the end. Did he really do nothing around the house when he stayed with you last?

OdddSocks · 10/10/2019 16:47

We thought he would be off on adventures but for a lot of the time he has lived on camp sites quite close to our home. He now says he is coming to a nearby campsite for the winter and will be able to see a lot more of us (gulp)

By staying on camping sites nearby to you and your home, he has decided that you are to take the place of his wife and to take on his 'wife's work'. If you host him now, you will do forever more.

His camper van, his choice.

GoodDogBellaBoo · 10/10/2019 16:48

No, you do not. You don’t owe him anything and if you do it now it will be even harder to say no next year. Do not give him a chance to ruin your Christmas. He made his own choice to live where he does. He sounds awful.

fedup21 · 10/10/2019 16:52

Anyone who told me washing was "womens work" wouldn’t be in my house for Christmas. What a tosser!

Don’t invite him-you will start a very long, wearing and depressing (for you) precedent.

mankyfourthtoe · 10/10/2019 16:59

No I wouldn't invite him.
If I had to I'd make sure that Xmas day was men's work and not life a finger, give him a course to cook serve and wash up.
Limit the alcohol he likes
Send him home after the meal.
Just because he fucked up his marriage treating her like a servant doesn't mean he can invade your marriage and do the same.

EileenAlanna · 10/10/2019 17:02

I'd a brief look on Google to see if I could find any prepper type events over Christmas you could buy him a ticket to go to but no luck. Not bashing preppers here btw, you should see what I have put away Grin but if he wants to be living "off-grid" I'd enthusiastically encourage him.
Can you not just lie & tell him you've invited 6 very very old & frail women from a local care home to have Christmas dinner with you & ask if he wants to volunteer lots of much needed help/driving etc on the day? He'll probably decide he has other things to be doing.

nomoreclue · 10/10/2019 17:19

No you don’t. I wouldn’t. His problems are not yours. You have your lovely Christmas Day routine. Don’t let anyone ruin that. Remember that some cultures don’t even celebrate Christmas so it’s not a thing for everyone everywhere. Stick to your family plans that are so precious. My family always go abroad at Christmas. You could have had abroad plans. It’s not definite you’ll always be here so don’t set a precedent that you are then tied into until he or you dies! Maybe invite him Boxing Day afternoon/eve if you feel you have to extend some sort of invite.

nomoreclue · 10/10/2019 17:20

Oh and good on his ex wife for getting out of that marriage! He sounds like an utter tosser

PhDone · 10/10/2019 17:38

Ooh agree with PPs that whatever you do now will be setting a precedent... be careful!

mankyfourthtoe · 10/10/2019 18:03

You could always angle for an invite at his as you're refusing to do all the wife Xmas work this year.

BeanBag7 · 10/10/2019 18:43

I would definitely go for an invite on boxing day, ideally out somewhere so that he can't out stay his welcome.
If your husband is really set on him coming on Christmas day, invite him for nibbles and drinks from 6pm onwards or something, so you can enjoy your Christmas in peace.

IsSummerOverYet19 · 10/10/2019 18:44

No you don’t have to invite him.

Slightly different, and not wanting to be outing as he is on here, but I have a brother that is a bully and an utter Twat. He is married, not happily.

Circumstances have meant that he will probably spend this Christmas alone, and in the future may end up totally alone if his marriage falls apart.

There is no way on earth he will ever be invited here, whether at Xmas or other time, apart from anything else, my adult DC would not want to be in the same town as him ever again if it can be helped. They hate him for how he has treated me in the past. Fortunately he lives many miles away so that can be avoided.

I feel no guilt, he made his bed many many years ago. It sounds like your DBIL did the same, you owe him nothing.

letsjog · 10/10/2019 18:51

I'd probably say something like "you're invited to join us for Christmas dinner BiL, me/ DSs will cook and you with DH can do the tidying up before we sit down for the night/play board games"

What I'm trying to say is I would clearly set out the agenda/plans for the night and also what you expect of him (washing up or making drinks for everyone or bringing XYZ dish) rather than him just coming to freeload of your food and sit in the armchair being served on hand and foot without lifting a finger.

I'm sure he might all of a sudden have different plans. Or if he comes then at least you can pull him up on the things you expect him to do as you did set the precedent.

funnylittlefloozie · 10/10/2019 18:52

The problem is, the bugger has ALREADY spoiled Christmas, hasnt he? If you let him come, you'll be resentful. If you don't, your DH (and probably you too, tbh) will be thinking about him all alone in his stupid campervan all day.

Maybe come to an agreement with DH and the boys, that nobody will turn a blind eye to Uncle Knobhead this year. If he is offensive or racist or just plain rude, pick him up on it and ask him to leave. Hopefully when he sees you all united, he will either shut up or clear off.

I feel bad for you, this is lose-lose whatever you do.

yearinyearout · 10/10/2019 18:53

Any chance your family can go away for Christmas? Nice little cottage in the lakes/lodge in the mountains or is that not doable?

Hidingtonothing · 10/10/2019 19:20

So you and your family have to suffer for his poor life decisions? Sorry OP but like fuck I would have him ruin my Christmas Day. Do the Boxing Day meal out if you need to salve your conscience but that's more than generous. He has made his choices and there's no reason those choices should mean your family traditions get ruined. Stand your ground OP!

Robin2323 · 10/10/2019 19:53

Why are you pandering to him?
How will he ever change (be respectful) if you don't let him reap the consequences of his bad behaviour? - home alone at Christmas.

You're not doing him any favours!

I wouldn't put up with this from anyone.

Also there will be a day when your sons will be else where (then you could invite him).

With a bit of luck he may meet a woman who s into camper van parties :)

opinionatedfreak · 10/10/2019 20:24

I would set out the expectation early and not invite him for Christmas Day.

Boxing Day lunch sounds good!!
And out if you can afford that (i wouldn't expect him to offer to pay on the basis of the information provided).

However can I just say that I occasionally end up "orphaned" far from my family at Christmas due to my work schedule. I prefer to be on my own. Occasionally I've met friends for a walk in the evening which has been lovely (central London is always totally dead and I love it).

But there is nothing more lonely than being a spare part at someone else's family Christmas!!

breakfastpizza · 10/10/2019 20:40

If you DH wants to invite his brother, then I would support that. But I'd negotiate limiting it to an afternoon meal. Tell him you're going to church/caroling/friends party at 6 PM so there is a definite deadline.

WickedLemon · 10/10/2019 20:53

Hang on a minute... BIL isn’t angling for an invite... in fact he hasn’t mentioned Christmas at all?

You and your DH have invented this non-problem between you, because you feel “I cannot let him spend Christmas in a campervan on his own”.

Did it occur to you he might want to spend this Christmas in his campervan on his own?

Put yourself out of your misery and ask him to dinner so you know one way or another, but don’t fool yourself that you’re doing to for him, you’re doing it for you and your martyr complex.

Disfordarkchocolate · 10/10/2019 20:59

No, you don't.

You know he is a rude and ungrateful guest, he had his chance. If he drops hints tell him you have enough woman's work with your sons staying and won't be doing any more over Christmas.