my male best friend just told me that he thinks my DP is abusing me

[helpisitme]

I met up with my best friend of 15 years last night and was telling him how things were going with my DP. I have been with DP just under a year. I said that we had been arguing lately. What I told him I thought was "normal" arguing... I gave a few examples and he was taken aback at what I told him. He said that he was emotionally abusing me and that I needed to leave him. I have no reason to think my friend would encourage me to end our relationship for his own benefit (he's gay and married) or that he dislikes DP? I know DP isn't an angel, but I am not sure I am being abused?

I basically gave an example of the only "big" argument we've had (incidentally the first time he's ever been nasty). DP was meant to pick me up from work because my car broke down. He was 45 minutes late. I was noticeably annoyed getting in the car, dripping wet and full of cold. He was late because he was chatting to his friends after he had done his hobby with them. He asked what was up - I said that I was cold and tired. He shouted at me, saying that I shouldn't "make him feel guilty" and that I was manipulative. He said he ALWAYS put me first and considered me, but I never considered him, and that I was selfish and self-centred. I told him that I did things for him and always consider how he feels, it wasn't him I was annoyed with, but the situation (e.g. having a cold/being cold). He ignored me for the rest of the drive, dropped me at my house (he was meant to come in) and drove home, saying he was "done". I was crying and apologising for upsetting him, asking him to please come back, but he ignored me, and then told me the relationship was over. I accepted this. A week later after the silent treatment, he called to say he overreacted and for us to get back together. I said yes, because this was the first time this had happened.

Another occasion, I told him over a very busy weekend "you're always so busy, rushing around looking after everyone else!" gave him a hug and jokingly said "now I know why you fall asleep replying to my messages! you're so sweet, but you need to sleep!". I said this because in the past, I had commented that he shouldn't feel compelled to reply to my messages late at night instead of sleeping (he had told me work was busy). He started saying that I was manipulative again - saying that I was "not trusting of how he spent his time", and how "everything is an issue to you". He again didn't speak to me for 3 days.

I brought up to him last week that I was feeling overwhelmed at work, my mum isn't well and my MH was getting bad and I was feeling generally rubbish. Insecurities stemming from my body image (previous anorexia) makes me feel shit about myself when I am stressed. I rang him basically asking why his ex had commented on his social media, because I didn't think they were in contact. This is the ex who cheated on him, and who openly calls me a "slag" to anyone who will listen. It was totally out of order of me to do this, I know. I apologized immediately. He told me it wasn't an issue and he would remove her. He ignored me for a week again, despite me asking him to talk to me, saying I was sorry etc.

He always tells me whenever I am unhappy or bring up an issue that I am "destroying the relationship" and that "you've ruined who we are". He will NEVER respond in an argument to me, I am always just met with "okay" and the silent treatment. He always threatens to break up over the smallest of disagreements. Nothing is ever a small discussion, any small criticism or concern is dragged out for weeks. I am scared to bring up anything to him in all honesty and feel myself being pushed away as a way to make me suffer, if I do. He always says "you're always accusing me"

The common theme seems to be that I make him feel bad. If I mention anything, even if I think it is wrong, it will always be twisted into how I am "making him feel guilty". He said he shouldn't have to change anything he does for me.

My friend told me he was stonewalling me, gaslighting me (you're the problem with this relationship, not the issues), and projecting onto me (e.g. in the car pick up example, my friend said he SHOULD have felt guilty as he had left you waiting knowing you were ill, and that HE was being manipulative trying to make me feel unreasonable for being annoyed).

Is this abuse? I think abuse is too strong? I do feel uneasy with any conflict with him, but I am not scared of him. He's sensitive, and maybe I am too critical?

OP, hitting someone is assault and domestic violence.

In your OP you said you thought the arguments you were having were normal - no, they aren't normal, as I said above. I am sorry you are upset about what I said, but the advice is the same from me and everyone else whether our reasons are different or not.

If you have been in abusive relationships, you understand that you are always seeking to blame yourself, to look for a way to justify their behaviour, that you are the problem I am the opposite of you, I can spot abusive people quite quickly because of my experiences, and avoid getting close to them. I realise you don't want advice from me, which is fine, so I will leave it there.

@codesandbargains

OP, hitting someone is assault and domestic violence.

And gaslighting, projecting and stonewalling are all recognised signs of emotional abuse as well.

Your reply hasn't addressed any questions I asked you relating to why you felt the need to minimise my experiences, to pry on someone who was clearly distressed, and to make someone doubt that recognised signs of emotional abuse were just "bad behaviour".

You're right, I don't need your advice as it was preceded by unnecessary minimising of someone's experiences, and what you dont deem as abuse.

Your reply hasn't addressed any questions I asked you relating to why you felt the need to minimise my experiences, to pry on someone who was clearly distressed and to make someone doubt that recognised signs of emotional abuse were just "bad behaviour".

I didn't minimise or pry. I asked you how long it had gone on for and you said 4 weeks. I said he might be splitting up with you. Which is also very upsetting and I empathised with that. Can I suggest that you phone Relate, talk it through with them and see what they say?

Everyone else on the thread thinks that it’s abusive behaviour.

Codesandbargains, you did begin your very first contribution to this thread by minimising and appearing to excuse the abuse and then tried to backpedal by saying that breaking up was the thing to do.

Luckily OP doesn't seem to be buying into your bullshit, but other people in abusive relationships posting for support getting out might just interpret your comments as suggesting that it is fixable when it isn't. So someone who is having difficulty leaving an abuser may feel encouraged to stay put. That could be dangerous.

Good luck OP. You have a great friend supporting you there. Stay strong. I would just dump the arsehole by text, then block him everywhere and move on with the support of the good people around you.

I have just read back through some of the comments. If you think that I am suggesting you empathise with him or try to understand him I am not. I said that you should send a text saying:

""I think meeting up over the weekend is a bad idea. I have thought about things and this relationship isn't for me. I don't think we can stay friends. I hope that you can accept this and move on"

What would be the point in talking to relate if there is no relationship there to discuss? They are hardly likely to advise remaining with an abuser.

OP try not to get sidetracked by codesandbargains comments. It's not helpful to you to be drawn into their dialogue.

Focus on your future and what you want from it. Consider your good friends advice, and the advice and comments you've had from so many other posters on here. I hope you will decide to end this relationship. If you do, remember you owe your partner no explanation or discussion. I would advise just turning up to collect your things, with support from at least one friend in case he turns nasty.

As others have said, if you try to engage with him he can either turn up the abusive behaviour, or try to charm you back in.

You didn't expect someone who is clearly still contemplating whether the behaviour of her boyfriend was abusive or not (and so clearly is good at empathising) to respond to this comment, and feel a source of responsibility:

and if and when they realise that it is not what they thought or it isn't working, then a lot of emotions come into play - loss of expectation, wanting time and space and avoiding arguments to think about it all, anger and irritation. It can get nasty because so much emotion and confusion is involved.

What did you expect the outcome to be? What did you gain from telling me it may be just because he doesn't want a relationship?

You could have just said it's not working, leave. But, you minimised his behaviour to such an extent that now I am doubting the posts of hundreds of members who are telling me his behaviour isn't right.

I agree that you are backpedaling. If you genuinely believe what you wrote, that is fine.

Your friend is right.
I have a friend who is currently trapped in a relationship with a man like your DP. They have a child, and she does 100% of the childcare, because he is 'tired' after working. Her parents are seriously ill, so she does errands for them and he accuses her of 'pandering to them' when she goes and does their shoppng; apparently he should be the most imporant person in her life.
I've known her 8 years, I've not even met him and I think he's an arse. I wish she'd leave him.

OP you aren't reading my posts properly. This is what I think:

1. My very first post on this thread said "were you planning to discuss this with your partner? If so, could I suggest that you break up with him and think about this thread and what you want from a future relationship and not discuss with him?" This is still what I think. I have NOT minimised.

1. The behaviour you have described in the OP is not normal relationship behaviour. It is NOT normal relationship behaviour.

1. No, I don't think what you are describing as his behaviour is abusive purely based on what you have said, and so yes, I disagree with all the posters who say it definitely is. I agree with the posters who say whether it is or not, it is not normal relationship behaviour and that it would be better to leave without discussing it with him.

1. I think it sounds like he is splitting up with you, and I think what I said about splitting up and the emotional turmoil and the feelings of loss of expectation are helpful as they apply to you as much as they apply to him.

The only other thing I would add based on later posts would be to say you might benefit from counselling to come to terms with the past, to talk about your current problems, to think about how when he has pushed you away and refused to talk to you, you have responded by crying and apologising (which in all honestly is not normal on your part in my opinion - sorry but again I am saying this to try to be helpful)

Ok? Sorry that this won't be what you want to hear, but I do think it is helpful or I wouldn't bother writing it. I don't think it is clear that he was being abusive or gaslighting or projecting or stonewalling to try to control or influence you. I am sorry, but that is my opinion. I do agree with everyone else that you should leave and not discuss with him.

@codesandbargains

I am reading your posts perfectly well.

I have NOT minimised.

See, you have.

Ignoring someone for a week who is asking when you will speak to them, who is constantly apologising and asking just for a text saying that they are going to contact them at some point is definite stonewalling. There is no doubt. There is also no doubt when I said to him "the silent treatment makes me feel like a child again waiting for my mum to speak to me" and him not saying he won't do it again because he knows how badly it affects my MH, and then proceeds to do it again. It is clearly a tactic to make me feel shit. And he knows it works.

Telling someone they are manipulative even though they keep manipulating any situation in which they are criticized and then bringing up issues that seem to have never been issues before, with him always blaming me for his behaviour, is manipulative. And that is projecting.

Telling someone they won't do something because of their principles, then do it and say "I never said I wouldn't do it, im not changing my behaviour for you" is gaslighting.

... so at what point, does this become abusive? After a week? A month? A year? Until he lashes out? Who sets the threshold?

I don't think it is clear that he was being abusive or gaslighting or projecting or stonewalling to try to control or influence you

Well I do. And I'm the idiot who spent nearly 25 years with one of those. Whenever I thought we'd come to an understanding, he'd move the goalposts. But in between, of course, he was so sweet and loving, so he couldn't have been doing the bad stuff on purpose

I tell you what, I'm willing to bet a bottle of the best quality sherry that if you say "You know what? You're right. We're not good together. Leaving me wasn't the mistake; getting back together was. So I've decided to call it a day" - he'd be into full on crying and begging mode until you felt so guilty you'd have to give him a second chance. Alternatively, if he really does want to split up he'll go "ok, fine" and not call you in a week trying to get you to change your mind.

Of course either way you'd sometimes wonder if it was really you after all... but no, it really isn't. As a few pp's have said, the only reason the common denominator is you is because certain types of people recognise you as suitable for their nasty treatment, whilst you don't recognise yourself as someone who doesn't deserve it. Nobody deserves it.

Yep, I'm with your friend too.

I haven't minimised.

... so at what point, does this become abusive? After a week? A month? A year? Until he lashes out? Who sets the threshold? Why are you asking? Relate would help if you want to explore it, but for this relationship it is a moot point if you recognise you want out.

I agree with your friend as well.Really if someone treats you like this they won’t change and will eventually wear down your self esteem,pretty classic stuff. If I were you I would cut my losses.There are plenty of better men out there

"You know what? You're right. We're not good together. Leaving me wasn't the mistake; getting back together was. So I've decided to call it a day"

This is really good wording! Then get counselling and move on to a relationship which works when you are ready.

@codesandbargains

I am asking because you seem to think it isn't abuse. And I am asking at what point it becomes abuse in your eyes.

And you did minimise; you told me behaviours clearly designed to isolate and cause me anxiety within a relationship were just "bad behaviours", which you can see would be designed to hurt me, in the examples above.

I do not need counselling or to ring Relate. I perhaps just need to stop listening to people on forums who seem to have a case all worked out.

If I thought a man was giving me the silent treatment on purpose to isolate me and cause me anxiety after one year of a relationship and there were no children, no other considerations, I would leave. I would rely on my own feelings and not on what he said. I wouldn't say "please don't do that because it reminds me of my mother" and I wouldn't accuse them of anything. I would just leave. Which is what you are being advised to do here. My advice, based on what you have said, is to leave and get counselling and move on. There is therefore nothing minimising about my advice.

Your OP said that you thought your arguments were normal, so I assume that you have now completely changed your mind, and you realise it isn't normal - are you planning to see him to discuss it or are you planning to finish without discussion?

Just ignore it op, and end it with your boyfriend. You've had plenty of good advice on this thread, don't concentrate on the one person that is stressing you out.

Your boyfriend is no good. You have your real life friend telling you this too.

Read up on attachment theory. He sounds like he is avoidant-dismissive. I agree with your friend. Why are you apologising to him? Ignore him and carry on with your life. Think about your attachment style .he could be playing on your anxiety and fear of abandonment. This is not a healthy relationship

At least this poster got you to say this:

Treating people badly from time to time, with stonewalling or gaslighting is NOT normal. Snapping at, or moaning at, or having a bad mood for a day is understandable. Calculating a period of silence or to project your own bad behavior on someone is not "bad behaviour" it is abuse. How many months do I need of this before I can call it "abuse"? Do I have to take a dramatic dip in mental health before I qualify?

So now you do know it's abuse, what are you going to do?

Your friend is right, and it concerns me that you just don't see it.

Really glad that you have a good friend and have decided end your relationship. Sounds like you are already building your knowledge of abusive relationships and this will really help you in the future. It’s a really good idea to research the red flags and warning behaviours of new partners so you can pass these people over much earlier on. Also look for the green flags, which are signs that a person is respecting your boundaries, not coming on too strong early on, not making you feel bad about things, encouraging you to do the things you want to do, compromising.
I would second the advice to not engage with your partner other than to say ”it’s over, don’t contact me again” then block.
In the same vein I would advise you not to engage with codesandbargains.
They have their own agenda which is not your problem. Try to walk away from negative people in every area of you life and spend time with positive people who lift you up. The more you engage with the negative the more you are dragged down. Listen to you gut. Have faith in yourself. You are learning what is good for you and are growing stronger.

@cocodomingo

I have just read an article on avoidant-dismissive.

This is him to a tee.

... it makes so much sense now.

Do you think this is something I could discuss with him?