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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

my male best friend just told me that he thinks my DP is abusing me

319 replies

helpisitme · 09/10/2019 18:22

I met up with my best friend of 15 years last night and was telling him how things were going with my DP. I have been with DP just under a year. I said that we had been arguing lately. What I told him I thought was "normal" arguing... I gave a few examples and he was taken aback at what I told him. He said that he was emotionally abusing me and that I needed to leave him. I have no reason to think my friend would encourage me to end our relationship for his own benefit (he's gay and married) or that he dislikes DP? I know DP isn't an angel, but I am not sure I am being abused?

I basically gave an example of the only "big" argument we've had (incidentally the first time he's ever been nasty). DP was meant to pick me up from work because my car broke down. He was 45 minutes late. I was noticeably annoyed getting in the car, dripping wet and full of cold. He was late because he was chatting to his friends after he had done his hobby with them. He asked what was up - I said that I was cold and tired. He shouted at me, saying that I shouldn't "make him feel guilty" and that I was manipulative. He said he ALWAYS put me first and considered me, but I never considered him, and that I was selfish and self-centred. I told him that I did things for him and always consider how he feels, it wasn't him I was annoyed with, but the situation (e.g. having a cold/being cold). He ignored me for the rest of the drive, dropped me at my house (he was meant to come in) and drove home, saying he was "done". I was crying and apologising for upsetting him, asking him to please come back, but he ignored me, and then told me the relationship was over. I accepted this. A week later after the silent treatment, he called to say he overreacted and for us to get back together. I said yes, because this was the first time this had happened.

Another occasion, I told him over a very busy weekend "you're always so busy, rushing around looking after everyone else!" gave him a hug and jokingly said "now I know why you fall asleep replying to my messages! you're so sweet, but you need to sleep!". I said this because in the past, I had commented that he shouldn't feel compelled to reply to my messages late at night instead of sleeping (he had told me work was busy). He started saying that I was manipulative again - saying that I was "not trusting of how he spent his time", and how "everything is an issue to you". He again didn't speak to me for 3 days.

I brought up to him last week that I was feeling overwhelmed at work, my mum isn't well and my MH was getting bad and I was feeling generally rubbish. Insecurities stemming from my body image (previous anorexia) makes me feel shit about myself when I am stressed. I rang him basically asking why his ex had commented on his social media, because I didn't think they were in contact. This is the ex who cheated on him, and who openly calls me a "slag" to anyone who will listen. It was totally out of order of me to do this, I know. I apologized immediately. He told me it wasn't an issue and he would remove her. He ignored me for a week again, despite me asking him to talk to me, saying I was sorry etc.

He always tells me whenever I am unhappy or bring up an issue that I am "destroying the relationship" and that "you've ruined who we are". He will NEVER respond in an argument to me, I am always just met with "okay" and the silent treatment. He always threatens to break up over the smallest of disagreements. Nothing is ever a small discussion, any small criticism or concern is dragged out for weeks. I am scared to bring up anything to him in all honesty and feel myself being pushed away as a way to make me suffer, if I do. He always says "you're always accusing me" Confused

The common theme seems to be that I make him feel bad. If I mention anything, even if I think it is wrong, it will always be twisted into how I am "making him feel guilty". He said he shouldn't have to change anything he does for me.

My friend told me he was stonewalling me, gaslighting me (you're the problem with this relationship, not the issues), and projecting onto me (e.g. in the car pick up example, my friend said he SHOULD have felt guilty as he had left you waiting knowing you were ill, and that HE was being manipulative trying to make me feel unreasonable for being annoyed).

Is this abuse? I think abuse is too strong? I do feel uneasy with any conflict with him, but I am not scared of him. He's sensitive, and maybe I am too critical?

OP posts:
whatmind · 10/10/2019 19:32

Your nice friend is right, your BF is an abusive man. He is using abusive and manipulative behaviours to keep you in line.

The friend that said you were the problem in your relationships is not a good friend! At all!

Get rid of the abusive man and the rubbish friend in one fell swoop by just cutting off contact to both.

Text abusive man and say "it's over. I don't want to see you anymore this relationship doesn't make me happy. I don't want to talk about it so please don't contact me"

It sounds harsh but really you will be talked into staying if you discuss it in any way with this man, they are usually very good at this and you have been vulnerable to his manipulations so far, so it's likely you will be susceptible this time too.

Protect yourself, tell friends and family in real life what you are doing and it is always a good idea to have a friend round in a breakup situation - either for wine/films/passing tissues or to help if he turns up and gets aggressive. I wouldn't want to worry you unnecessarily but as it is clear he over-reacts to things it is possible he could turn up angry at your door.

Good on your nice friend for looking out for you!
Maybe read up on here and elsewhere about abusive relationship dynamics - haven't RTFT so someone may have linked some things already and mentioned the Freedom Program / DARVO - google is your friend for lots of explanations on things you have described.

Definitely get rid of the nasty guy though, you really deserve better!

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 10/10/2019 19:37

I don’t think you need to view this dispassionately, @helpisitme. I think you should be 100% passionate about your own needs and what you deserve. And you deserve so, so much better than the way this poor excuse for a human being treats you!

edwardcullensotherwoman · 10/10/2019 19:53

Your friend is right and you need to end it. I've been in that relationship, made the mistake of moving in and it got worse and worse. Leave now while you're still open to considering it as abuse, because before he will have completely conditioned you into thinking it's normal to be treated that way and they everything really is your fault.
Be strong, and keep that good friend forever, he's a good egg! Smile

codesandbargains · 10/10/2019 20:04

OP, I think I might know what is going on here. I have known 3 abusive people in my life and I also have known people (many people) to handle break ups very, very badly - and I have read through your posts a few times and I wonder if this is what this is about, not an abusive relationship as such. Obviously any kind of poor behaviour is not acceptable, so the advice to go for a clean break is good advice whatever. But understanding it may help you handle it.

People enter into relationships usually because they really want to get to know someone and feel those wonderful feelings, and if and when they realise that it is not what they thought or it isn't working, then a lot of emotions come into play - loss of expectation, wanting time and space and avoiding arguments to think about it all, anger and irritation. It can get nasty because so much emotion and confusion is involved. And when you have arguments and it gets nasty, a sort of trauma bonding can happen, making it harder to think clearly and go for a clean break. It can happen when friendships break up too.

Number3or4 · 10/10/2019 20:11

Your friend is right.

helpisitme · 10/10/2019 21:20

@codesandbargains

I don't understand your post

OP posts:
codesandbargains · 10/10/2019 21:59

I recognised some of the behaviours thinking about when people I know have split up, their behaviour deteriorates for a short time. As distinct from someone who is habitually abusive. But I am second guessing, obviously. Eg

He always threatens to break up over the smallest of disagreements He wants to split up, but there are still lots of emotions and feelings of loss and he is confused.

He will NEVER respond in an argument to me, I am always just met with "okay" and the silent treatment He says ok to avoid arguments while he is working things out

he called to say he overreacted and for us to get back together this was the start of the problems, is that right?

I won't be able to post again for a few days, so I hope it all goes ok.

TooTrueToBeGood · 10/10/2019 23:04

Codesandbargains, you're straying into very dangerous logic. It doesn't matter why an abuser abuses, whether it's their permanent state or something they drift in and out of, whether they are conciously abusing or are unaware, what their underlying motivations are. All that matters is that they are abusive and the impact they have on their victim. He might be emotional and confused? Fucking diddums. What do you expect the OP to do with that suggestion other than to become more confused herself and start to wonder if she should be more understanding of him and maybe even sympathetic. It's this sort of abuse-apologist bullshit that ensures abuse remains at near-epidemic levels.

What's next in your repetoire? Suggesting rapists aren't really rapists, their just confused about consent?

NameChangeNugget · 10/10/2019 23:29

Your friend has your back. Your boyfriend sounds abusive

Topseyt · 11/10/2019 02:38

Strongly disagree with Codesandbargains.

It is pointless trying to understand your abuser. That way lies madness and you will just stay in the relationship being abused for far longer than you should.

All you need to understand is that he is an arse and you need to get rid. Not stay there trying to understand him FFS.

ThinkWittyThoughts · 11/10/2019 06:55

I could t disagree with @codesandbargains more strongly if I tried.

Who the fuck cares why he's abusing OP, the point is, he IS abusing OP.

MrsTriOskvi · 11/10/2019 07:29

Silent treatment is a total red flag and definitely abuse. What decent adult behaves like that? Your friend is right. Get out now

Candace19 · 11/10/2019 07:40

Who needs that kind of drama in their life ?!?! No wonder you're MH is slipping. Can you be brave enough to end it ?

Apolloanddaphne · 11/10/2019 07:42

He is not a nice man. I hope you feel strong enough to end things with him.

codesandbargains · 11/10/2019 09:05

@TooTrueToBeGood @topseyt I said in my posts that bad behaviour was bad behaviour and that she should make a clean break. I am not sure how that wasn't clear and I wasn't excusing anything. The OP has been told multiple times that she should make a clean break and she hasn't and hasn't indicated that she will - perhaps you should focus on that. From her posts I suspected the OP was going to try to discuss with this man his behaviour because of this thread as proof that he is in the wrong and if he was trying to split up with her it was going to make things worse. The behaviour has just been in the last 4 weeks and I got the impression that not only did OP think it was "normal" (which it isn't) she also was going to try to persuade the man she was in the right and he should change. He isn't going to change. We are all agreeing on that. Anyway I will say it again - OP - bad behaviour is bad behaviour and you should make a clean break. I was NOT NOT NOT excusing anyone's bad behaviour

hellsbellsmelons · 11/10/2019 09:23

and that I was manipulative
Ouch – that is projection right there. Judging you by his own standards.
I was crying and apologising for upsetting him
Oh hell – stop doing this kind of shit – PLEASE!!!! With anyone!!
The ignoring you and silent treatment is called Stonewalling abuse – google it!
and my MH was getting bad
Hardly surprising given you are pandering to an abusive, manipulative piece of shit!
I have been in violent relationships in the past
Did you get support from a DV charity after your abusive relationships? If not then you absolutely have to contact Womens Aid – Do their Freedom Programme and do it fast. Do not get involved with any other men until you set yourself boundaries and work on your self-worth and self-esteem!
But yes, I will be thinking how best to end this relationship
Boundaries OP – just tell him he’s an abusive asshole and you don’t want to hear from him again. Then block, ignore, delete – do NOT over think this – just end it – fast!!!
I didn't feel bad doing what I havr done because I basically said I needed time to think away from him and gave him a timeframe
And you shouldn’t feel bad about that. It’s perfectly reasonable to say this and expect him to respect that!

Ditch the fuckwit friend.
Give your lovely insightful friend a big hug from MN and thank him for saving you from another abusive relationship.

DUMP AND RUN - THE HILLS ARE THAT WAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

TooTrueToBeGood · 11/10/2019 10:02

CodesAnd Bargains, you might want to read what you wrote again.

".......handle break ups very, very badly...."
".....not an abusive relationship as such...."
"....It can get nasty because so much emotion and confusion is involved"
"...there are still lots of emotions and feelings of loss and he is confused".
"....distinct from someone who is habitually abusive".

That reads like you are rationalising and minimising his behaviour.

"....understanding it may help you handle it".

Understanding that it is abuse helps her. Trying to get her to understand him and why he behaves abusively does not help her. It just adds to her confusion and risks her thinking she might be able to fix him.

Adding in bits like "...Obviously any kind of poor behaviour is not acceptable, so the advice to go for a clean break is good advice" is all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that your excusing and apologist pieces just add to the confusion of people in OP's situation. "Poor behaviour"? He's emotionally abusing her, not leaving the toilet seat up.

Ask yourself this. If his response to being "emotional and confused" had been physical rather than emotional abuse would you have responded in the same manner? would you have tried to help her understand him, imply she should be more empathetic towards him, if he was prone to beating the shit out of her? I strongly suspect not which means that you are one of those people who simply doesn't understand just how damaging emotional abuse is.

codesandbargains · 11/10/2019 10:28

@TooTrueToBeGood you are wrong - i spent ten years of my childhood living with an emotionally abusive narcissist.

There are different levels of abuse. In the abusive relationships I have experience of, the abuse was intentional and sustained. Most people treat other people badly from time to time - the bad behaviour is abusive in itself but it isn't the same thing as intentional and sustained. It is not excusable, or acceptable, but it isn't the same thing.

And the fact is, I have said clearly that I agree with the people advising the clean break.

I think it would be helpful to the OP to consider that the behaviour of her partner is in the context of splitting up and that splitting up can be messy and nasty and unpleasant and the reasons why - as per the post you quoted.

And I think the distinction I have drawn above is important, as otherwise the women in relationships with men who are abusive in a sustained and intentional way don't get the support they need.

The OP has MH problems and is vulnerable and she needs a different kind of support.

Anyway - we agree a clean break is the best thing, so the end result is the same.

RadishesAndLentils · 11/10/2019 10:29

If you don't break it off with this man, he may try to paint your lovely friend as the problem. And the next step will be to isolate you from your support network.

codesandbargains · 11/10/2019 10:52

OP, send a text today saying "I think meeting up over the weekend is a bad idea. I have thought about things and this relationship isn't for me. I don't think we can stay friends. I hope that you can accept this and move on" then block

You are lucky with your friend, and I hope that your friend can support you through this.

helpisitme · 11/10/2019 12:01

@codesandbargains

i spent ten years of my childhood living with an emotionally abusive narcissist.

Yes, same, so it's understandable that I now find myself in abusive relationships commonly.

Most people treat other people badly from time to time - the bad behaviour is abusive in itself but it isn't the same thing as intentional and sustained. It is not excusable, or acceptable, but it isn't the same thing.

What does this even mean? So, if he had hit me twice that would just be "bad behaviour" NOT domestic violence? Treating people badly from time to time, with stonewalling or gaslighting is NOT normal. Snapping at, or moaning at, or having a bad mood for a day is understandable. Calculating a period of silence or to project your own bad behavior on someone is not "bad behaviour" it is abuse. How many months do I need of this before I can call it "abuse"? Do I have to take a dramatic dip in mental health before I qualify?

Your post is certainly not appreciated. Do you think it's necessary even if this is the case to tell someone? You have no insight into my life. You have no idea about anything other than I have written here. Is it so important for you to be right, to pry and to gather information so you can have your "aha" moment that, actually, all this is because he wanted to break up - and I should understand that?

If you have been in abusive relationships, you understand that you are always seeking to blame yourself, to look for a way to justify their behaviour, that you are the problem. You must understand why you felt motivated to write such a minimizing post through a sea of overwhelming support? What was your aim? It wasn't help - I'd already had help. I am now focusing on your one comment in a unanimous response. You have now installed doubts into my mind again.

OP posts:
helpisitme · 11/10/2019 12:03

And I think the distinction I have drawn above is important, as otherwise the women in relationships with men who are abusive in a sustained and intentional way don't get the support they need.

Well, as a woman who had her arm broken by her ex-DP, I can assure you I feel very similar levels of distress after being shut out of someone's life for a week.

We, you or I do not decide who gets support and who doesn't.

OP posts:
Zucker · 11/10/2019 12:08

Don't pay heed to that random useless advice on the internet.

Listen closely to your friend, he can see first hand what's going on. I agree with your friend for what it's worth Flowers

Aberhonddu · 11/10/2019 12:35

I agree with Zucker
Your friend knows you and the man involved, he's there, he's seen how you are treated. He has your best interests at heart and he's very courageously raised his concerns with you.
If wouldn't bother to try and engage with your partner any more, I'd just cut loose now.

yellowallpaper · 11/10/2019 13:12

Abusers sniff out vulnerable people and this is what has happened. Your friend is right