I think I have to end my marriage.

[Chupchup]

Hi h and I have been together for ten years and have 2 primary aged dc. He is the main breadwinner. We've had lots of ups and downs over the years due to the stress of 2 small children, money worries, house refurb etc. One big problem for me has been his drinking. Over the last few years after many arguments he has really cut back. He rarely goes out and doesn't drink that often, maybe 4 times a month, but when he does drink he slurs, can hardly talk, doesnt know when to stop, and when challenged can become nasty and defensive as he knows I hate it. He probably doesn't need to actually drink that much to get drunk these days. It's just so depressing and boring to see him in this state. He's ruined so many special occasions due to being focused on alcohol.

In between these times he's largely wonderful. He's hands on around the house, great with kids, works bloody hard in a management job etc. We really get each other and have good conversations and make each other laugh. But the drinking continues to ruin things. On our wedding anniversary yesterday he was supposed to be taking the kids for a walk, instead he sat in the pub for 4 hours. He could hardly talk when he got home and was then mean to me as I told him it was unacceptable. I've just been crying since then. Everything was wonderful in the morning. We've been getting on great and have exciting plans to relocate, but now it's all gone to shit. How many more things can be ruined? How many more times can I ask him to limit his drinking? We've been here constantly over the years. I have to go now, don't I? I will lose everything though. Is it worth it?? His drinking makes me sad and I cry. Is that a good enough reason?

I'll need to move up north as I cant afford to buy here, which means I'll be on my own with the kids. Can I do it? Can I cope? Life is very short and I'm getting old. I have no friends. I'm ready to make a change. I'm not sure how you just select an area and go. Is it reason enough? Can I offer him an ultimatum? Am I being petty? We were going to.move to a beautiful house in a beautiful location, whereas now I'll be in some tiny house, probably in a bad area, the opposite of what we wanted for our children. Help! Should I put up and shut up? The other wives do.

Do not put up and shut up; you are not these other wives.

His primary relationship is with drink; its not with you or your children.
He is an alcoholic and such people do not readily change, your H is showing no indications at all that he actually wants to address his drink problem and for him the drink comes first. His thoughts centre on where the next drink is going to come from. Its no life for your kids to be seeing at first hand either. You cannot fully protect them currently from all this either, they see and hear far more than perhaps either of you care to realise.

An ultimatum can only be issued one time only and you have to be fully prepared to follow through on it. If you aren't it is no point at all in issuing one.

Your words are all ones of a spouse at the end of her tether.
You will merely keep going around in circles with him if you stay and you really do need to get off this merry go around that is alcoholism. You have and continue to play out roles in his alcoholism; namely codependent partner, provoker (because you never forget) and his enabler. Your own recovery from this will only properly start too when you are away from him.

He's ruined enough special occasions already and you have in all likelihood likely covered for him and made excuses for him too. No more.

Apart from now seeking legal advice for your own self I would also suggest that you talk to Al-anon and attend their meetiwngs, at the very least read their literature.

Yes you can do this and yes you will cope admirably.

Thank you Atilla. You speak the truth. We've been round in circles the whole time. I'm tired. If I had the cash to not reduce my standard of living I'd be gone.

He won't offer to stop as he says it's just empty promises. He also says I'm overreacting just cos I don't like his behaviour after a couple of pints. This is minimising, isn't it.

Sadly, you gave me this advice years ago.

He went to the gp about his drinking. He was told He was alcoholic as he didn't drink enough. I thought that wasn't the definition of being an alcoholic these days?

He was told he wasn't an alcoholic

You can live in the biggest most beautiful mansion, with a banquet on the table and the turquoise ocean lapping at your toes.
And if your relationship is as lonely as yours it will still feel like prison.

What other wives do???
And it doesn't matter what anyone else does.
This is YOU and YOUR life and YOUR boundaries.
He's overstepping them time and time again.
You've enabled it for far too long already.
Being in a house with an alcoholic is no good for your DC either.
Of course you can cope.
So many do and not just due to an alcoholic.
Many of us are thrust into single parenthood for many reasons but we all cope! You will too.
Do you not have any family or friends?
Is there a reason you don't have friends?
Is there anyone you could reach out to for some RL support?

While you make your plans, I suggest you get in touch with Al-Anon.
They help families of alcoholics.
Set you children a good example of boundaries and what people should and should not put up with.
He makes you sad and he makes you cry. Of course they are good enough reasons to leave.

I mean specifically the wives of his friends. They have to put up with worse than I do, but they do.

But is he an alcoholic?? He has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, or is he just "having a few pints" and I just don't like it?

I don't know why I've found myself friendless. I was always very popular. I think just being in the parenting bubble. I got put off Fri king myself, so did stop socialising.

Nobody in real life, no. Just my mum who doesn't live here. She thinks all men are the same and like going to the pub. Old fashioned. She knows what he's like but probably thinks I'm a bit uptight.

I'm not sure of the practicalities of leaving. He says he won't believe anything til he sees divorce papers which I was surprised at.

I got put off drinking myself

You are me 6 years ago, 20 + years of being married to a man with 2 sides. One wonderful, the other an arse when he had a few drinks in him. One day it was like a switch had been turned off, I just couldn’t do the rest of my life like it.
He went to AA out of desperation to try to save us, and I went to Al-Anon, it’s been a VERY up and down 6 years since he started his recovery! But thank god we did. We now at last have a stronger marriage than ever. Go on AA website or ring their helpline, I hope he gets to a meeting soon and realises there are other people just like him. And Al-Anon for you, get to a meeting get some leaflets and listen to other people who will know what your feeling and going through. Good luck

@17Pinksmyfavoritecolour thank you. Hiw would you have described his drinking? My dh loves drinking and would never give it up. He has given it up for long periods of time but he doesn't see the neef to give it up forever. Although he does recognise it's problematic for him. There are 3 alcoholics in his family, so he does recognise the issue. It's all swept under the carpet.

I will look at al anon for me.

HI chupchup

re your comments in quotemarks in answer to hellsbells's questions:-

"I mean specifically the wives of his friends. They have to put up with worse than I do, but they do".

That is their choice; it does not have to be yours.

"But is he an alcoholic?? He has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, or is he just "having a few pints" and I just don't like it?"

He is an alcoholic and he certainly has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Look at how this has impinged on your marriage and relationship. How many more birthdays, Christmases, special occasions is he going to spoil or ruin because of alcohol?.

"I don't know why I've found myself friendless. I was always very popular. I think just being in the parenting bubble. I got put off Fri king myself, so did stop socialising".

Get yourself out of the parenting bubble and carve out a life for your own self. Find something to do with any and all free time.

"Nobody in real life, no. Just my mum who doesn't live here. She thinks all men are the same and like going to the pub. Old fashioned. She knows what he's like but probably thinks I'm a bit uptight".

Alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy; time to bust this wide open. Not all men are the same at all and not all of them like spending as much time in the pub as your H does. They have an off switch and have a healthy relationship with alcohol. Your mother certainly taught you some crap lessons about relationships herself.

"I'm not sure of the practicalities of leaving. He says he won't believe anything til he sees divorce papers which I was surprised at".

Find out then about the practicalities of leaving; this is why I suggested you seek legal advice. Well show him divorce papers then!. It could be the making of you and your kids going forward.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?. Think about that a lot more.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. You want them to learn a similar set of crap lessons like you yourself did from your own mother?. I would hope you want better for them and for you.

There are no guarantees when it comes to alcoholism chupchup. He could go onto lose everything and everyone around him and he could still choose to drink afterwards.

Alcoholism as well can also be learnt behaviour and I am not altogether surprised to see that some of his own relations are alcoholics as well. Denial is also a powerful force in alcoholism and he likely sees no correlation between them and his own self. Alcoholism too is not also called the "family disease" for nothing.

The problem with addicts is that they will always justify themselves. I imagine your DH feels he isn't an alcoholic because he doesn't drink every day / in the morning etc, while others will say they aren't an alcoholic because even though they drink every day they don't get in the state your DH does.

You're desperately trying to check if your feelings are reasonable when that shouldn't be your focus.
His behaviour makes you unhappy, you have told him this and his response was to say he won't change, you're being dramatic.
It doesn't matter what the issue is - his answer is to deflect responsibility on to you.

He isn't ready for AA by the sounds of it because for that to work, he has to accept he has a problem and want to get himself into recovery. He can't do that for you, it has to be for him.

What FranklySonImTheGaffer wrote. And unless he decides for his own self that he does have an alcohol problem, there is nothing anyone including you can do to help. He has to want to do this for his own self.

The 3cs re alcoholism are that you did not cause it, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it.

It doesn't matter what the issue is - his answer is to deflect responsibility on to you

He kept saying it was me ruining his life, that I was choosing to leave and move his kids away from him. I kept saying, but it's because of your behaviour. But he didn't like that.

Yes, I'm trying to justify if it's bad enough. We get hung up a lot on arguing about whether he is an actual alcoholic.

I currently earn £8k a year, so you can see how hard this is going to be!

ChupChup

You only need to give your own self permission to leave him.

Dear OP, you really should move out and move on. You cannot spend your life waiting for the time when he will ruin a special occasion for you and upset you.

My DF was an alcoholic. I would always urge people to leave - you cannot cure him, he can only do that himself.

An alcoholic is someone who could never, ever, consider giving up alcohol. It does not matter how little they drink - they live for those days and someone who spends an afternoon in the pub when it is your wedding anniversary loves alcohol more than he loves you.

You will make a new life for you and your DC - perhaps you can get a better paid job when they are older, do you have family that can support you? There are probably people on here who can give you practical support on the separation threads, but I am here to offer you emotional support (I don't live in the UK so no idea what your entitlements are).

Yes, I need to keep in my mind what life is like. How on holidays I have to negotiate and implement no alcohol days, how I'd never go on an all inclusive holiday with him, how Xmas makes me feel nervous due to bad past experiences, how I don't like going to his family get togethers as they're all at it and ignoring the casualties, how I turned to his dm for help once and she made out it was in my head so now we barely speak, how we went to a fabulous destination wedding and I couldn't keep up with the drinking so spent every night alone in my room as he was still out, so many ruined birthdays, so many rows...

@06Annasgirl thank you.

An alcoholic is someone who could never, ever, consider giving up alcohol. It does not matter how little they drink - they live for those days

This struck a chord with me. He lives for those times.

I'm a professionally qualified graduate, I should be able to find better paid work but I've wanted to be around for the dc etc. Everything will have to change. I need to get on rightmove.

I'm an alcoholic, 27 years sober (AA saved me). One thing I can guarantee is that your husband's drinking will get worse; it's progressive. As time goes on it will take less and less to make him incabably drunk and the intervals between his drinking sessions will get smaller. I've witnessed many people die in AA for whom the programme didn't work or who didn't truly commit. Believe me, you do not want to be around to see this and your children definitely don't. Good luck OP.

But how often does he drink? I'm not sure he is an alcoholic but it just sounds to me like you're incompatible.

I have a friend who is tiny and doesn't drink at all. She would say I'm an alcy and have a problem with booze if I drank say 3 glasses of wine over the course of an evening. Because she doesn't drink herself she grossly over exaggerates others drinking habits. I have a feeling you could be doing this? Also if you make a comment every time he has a drink maybe it does get wearing?
No alcohol days on holiday?? Can he not have a beer with lunch? To me that would be normal and perfectly fine.
But I'm not trying to disregard what your saying I'm just playing devil's advocate really.
As I said, to me you're incompatible and if you're not happy, leave! Doesn't sound like he will change if he's and alcoholic or not. He doesn't need to be labelled an alcoholic just for you to leave. You seem to be concerned about the labelling of it to be able to leave and that shouldn't be the case.

Unfortunately., many doctors are also heavy drinkers so often don't take it as seriously as they should. I also imagine that your DH made light of it too.

Go to Al-Anon. At least there, you'll find people in the same situation and can talk to them about your options.

BTW, an alcoholic is someone who cannot control their drinking. Period. It isn't about the amount you drink - it's about the lack of control.

Good Luck!

Oh sorry you say 4 times a month. I don't it's that much tbh although I see you're agreeing with a poster about it not being how often but the never willing to give it up. I'm not sure I agree with this :/
Anyhoo my post still stands l. You're not happy and he won't change so just end it.

He rarely goes out and doesn't drink that often, maybe 4 times a month

You mean your husband gets blind drunk on average every single week. That's not 'rarely' . That's not having a glass or a few occasionally and socially. His friends might be worse, but that's only because alcoholics search out other people who are similar or worse, then their behaviour does not look so bad.

I put up with terrible stuff for a beautiful house, it's not worth it, make the change when you are younger and the kids will adapt easier plus exposing them to alcohol abuse is likely to drive them to alcohol as adults.

@27Horehound i get where you're coming from, but he would drink all day every day on holiday if he could. We have small children and it ruins everything. When we were younger drinking was fun, now his drunken slurring is boring and unattractive. If I have a beer that is giving the green light to fill your boots. He can clean, wash, cook, play with kids etc. tick them all off, then he is off the hook to start drinking. He's fulfilled his duties. God knows what retirement would look like.

He will order his next drink with half of his current drink still in his glass. He will say he's just having 2 bottles of cider, but I notice they're the 9% ones or whatever. I love drinking, dancing, socialising but he ruins it for me. He doesn't make a fool of himself but he gets the glazed eyes and the slurring and it's not attractive. No chance of sex or anything, he'd rather keep drinking.