Is a narcissist an abuser in your opinion?

[tobedtoMNandfart]

My father is a narcissist. In my opinion he's at that far end of the scale. He cares for nothing and no one unless it's in his interests.
As I am a nice person I have been to hell and back for 5 years to try to fix things, whilst continually being blamed as 'the problem'.

NC now for 10 months. I am nearly at the point now where I can confidently label it as abusive (emotionally and psychologically). In this way I can justify to myself why he and my mother no longer see me, my DH & my 3 DC.

He, and others, would never see it this way.
I realise it depends on your experience, your generation, your opinion...

So MN, in your opinion, is it 'abusive'.

Yes. I think so.

I realise I haven't really given any details. He was hypercritical. When I became upset of his treatment of me it triggered a narcissistic rage that left me too fearful to be in his company alone again. None of my feelings are acknowledged by either of them. They are unable to change despite repeated descriptions of the pain that they have inflicted on me (my mother by standing beside him or hiding behind him).

I think I struggle because it just looks so banal written down. It is 'just' feelings. But I know that some of you will understand as you have, sadly, suffered similar. It destroys you.

Thank you 💐

Yeah, mines is one too & I'm now NC. I think it's hard for other people to understand because most people have still experienced some sort of love/kindness from the parent even if there's been difficulties.

Yes. My friend lost her Mum and said to me I should 'put things right before it's too late'.

I said "if I told you my husband was hitting me would you tell me to keep going back?"

Feel free to dwell on your feelings here OP. I know just how much it can be difficult to be dismissed and not validated for your genuine struggles by your own parents.

I think the emotional neglect and manipulative control is quite abusive seeing how a child needs the opposite of those to grow healthily and have a fair chance at building emotional
Resilience and independence.

Would you say you experienced emotional neglect as a child and were always gaslighted and manipulated?

Yes a lot of the emotional support every child deserves was absent. Emotional and physical neglect yes.
Interestingly enough the stuff I would label abusive has occurred in my 40s. It relates to the 'usual' problems, the ageing narcissist, the independent adult child who now has their own children and knows damn well what they think their own children deserve.

The dynamic worked better when he was the undisputed head of the family and we all danced to his tune. In your 40s that same expectation becomes increasingly ridiculous!

Do your parents come from difficult upbringing ?

Interesting question. I can see some selfishness in both grandmothers but both were also very nurturing. Thereby creating a golden child and the ideal enabler partner.

Honestly I think the biggest factor in him getting this toxic is FIFTY YEARS married to my mother who has never tackled his selfishness, never challenged him and has unquestioningly accepted his reality as truth.

She has created a monster. He has made her a narcissist too possibly.

Both had poor upbringing without the sort of 'emotional intelligence' we all learn these days. Rather harsh at times but not abysive or toxic no I don't think so.

I think it’s the feeling of constant vigilance when you’re in their company that gives it away that you’re with a narcissist. You’re never quite sure what’s coming or what you’ve done. The requirement that you’ll be a bystander when you witness their behaviour with other people, awkward but grateful that it’s not you on the receiving end. The mental tidying up you do after spending time or calling them, trying to reassure yourself that actually it’s just their ‘way’, and every family had it’s difficulties.

Thanks for the support tonight guys. I appreciate it 💐

That's why I had to cut contact in the end. EVERY contact was just so painful to me.

Have you tried getting some counselling so it doesn’t eat at you and your self esteem?

Did you have a golden child/scape goat set up at home? Is your realisation isolating you from your siblings/relatives?

tobedtoMNandfart I really understand that OP. It can be very hard to have emotional resilience when confronted with our deepest wounds by the people we wish we could be supported by.

I’m curious to know how their relationship with your children are like?

I've had counselling which has really helped but I am now having to force myself (through logic and what I've learnt) to 'manually override' my instinctive reactions.

*Yes. My friend lost her Mum and said to me I should 'put things right before it's too late'.

I said "if I told you my husband was hitting me would you tell me to keep going back?"*

There's really nothing to put right, there's no rhyme or reason for their behaviour. No issue or problem needing solved to understand better. No logic comes into it & a narcissist will never believe they've done anything wrong.

Your life is a more stable place without them in it. You're no longer in waiting for them to spontaneously cause havoc & upset.

Eventually I became strong enough to prevent his contact with my children. After they had witnessed 2 very nasty and unnecessary outbursts I just thought "No. These are my children. This is my home. I don't have to let them see this".

@MrsNotNice everything you say ^ about 'deepest wounds' is so true.

Thank you @Everafter1 you are right.

It’s not just your children who deserve protecting. You do too, you’re allowed to live without fear.

Yes that's what clinched it initially. Life is just too short to live with this.

Yes.

Cut contact or they will suck the life out of you and won’t stop until you are destroyed/under their control. They will use your children. Do not give them that chance.

They will not change.

Yes my relationship with my sibling is pretty dysfunctional.