New bloke. Not sure. Proceed with caution?

[ChippyPickledEggs]

A month or so ago I had what I thought was a one weekend stand with a bloke I'd just met (I know, disgraceful, but it was fun.) I really wasn't expecting it to be anything more. We have some mutual friends and are on the periphery of eachothers social circles.

I heard from him afterwards - a text or two here or there - all pretty luke warm. I didn't feel him to be terribly interested, however he did ask me to a weekend festival where our mutual friends would also be a week or two later. I went with an open mind about what to expect and again, the first night, found him pretty luke warm. He was fun and friendly but mostly socialised with others, as did I.

However, the second day and night of the festival we reconnected and spent some nice time together. Since then he has been really keen. He asked me over to his the next weekend and made a real effort. He'd obviously cleaned his flat from top to bottom, he took me walking on the beach, and paid for a very expensive night out for us. Contact between us has been pretty much daily since. I don't do endless texting back and forth (and thankfully neither does he) but there has been a short conversation once or twice a day. He expresses excitement about seeing me again, wants to know how I am etc.

Here's the dilemma. I thought it was just going to be a one night stand. It's all been a bit boozy so far and definitely casual. However our next plan to see eachother feels like more of a date. We have arranged to go out for a meal on a school night (I am paying - it's my turn) and for it to be drinks free due to work the next day. He has taken a mornings leave off work so that he can stay at mine and not have to leave super early (he works about an hour away.) This feels like it's edging away from FWB territory.

At the moment I can take it or leave it. But if we continue to go on these kinds of dates and to sleep together I will begin to get attached. I can't stay casual forever. How to bring this up with him? Or is it best not to at this stage?

Second issue: two female friends have warned me that he doesn't treat women well. This opinion seems to be based on him having apparently messed about another mutual friend. But according to him he only spent a night or two with this woman, at which point she became super keen. He didn't reciprocate her feelings and made the mistake of trying to extricate himself gently, instead of bluntly telling her he wasn't interested. She felt she was getting mixed signals and was hurt. As far as I'm concerned this isn't ideal behaviour, obviously, but hardly the crime of the century?

How to proceed? I don't want to get hurt myself and I'm still at the stage where I can walk away unscathed. However, I do quite like him. So...

Go on a date enjoy yourself. Tread carefully. Seems like you are. Why not. 🤷‍♀️

Hmm, the "she became super keen" explanation of previous shitty behaviour is one I've heard before and makes me a bit... Sceptical.

May be true, but it's cliched. And he's hardly going to say "oh yes I do tend to treat women quite badly!"

So go on a few more dates and see how it goes. You won’t be having that ‘exclusivity’ talk for a while so take each day...Do you think you like him That much that you’ll be heartbroken if it doesn’t work out?

No Cubed. At the moment I could walk away with a light heart - no hard feelings. But it won't be like that forever. I can't continue to spend time/sleep with someone indefinitely and not develop an attachment. I'm not going to pretend I can.

I feel your dilemma OP completely.
What does your gut tell you about the type of person he is (we don’t know him). I have a very similar situation myself.
Could you have this date and reassess after? It does seem a bit more serious than your previous meet ups.
It’s tricky isn’t it. I’m like you, if there are too many ‘dates’ I’d get more attached and risk getting hurt. I don’t want that. But then I suppose if you don’t take a chance you might regret it.
I think only you’ll know in yourself what to do. Try to keep involving your head at every opportunity and not just your heart. (Not easy I know)
God my advice is as undecided as your post

“She became super keen” after what he describes as “a night or two” has become a red flag in my social circle. I’m aware of at least three single men who frequently find themselves in situations of upsetting women while trying to be “nice”

Not saying your guy is the same. Is there a reason you’re not taking your friend’s word? Have they got form for always disapproving of your romantic dalliances?

No, there's no form for disapproving of my romantic dalliances and there's no reason for me not to take my friends word. It's just his explanation seemed so reasonable? And really, if it was just a night or two, I don't see how any woman can make claim to having been treated very badly. He didn't owe her anything. I get that when men aren't clear it's frustrating. But feeling heartbroken after a one or two night stand doesn't seem reasonable to me.

My gut tells me he can be a bit of a cad. A bit of a good time man. But I also think he might quite like me. He's not love bombing. But he is making a decent effort and clearly really wants to see me again.

I think if it was me I'd just keep it very casual and not be shagging him all the time. Then if hes not for you then you can just walk away easily.if hes really interested in you then he will stick around. Also what have his other relationships been like?

I think go on the date, see how things go. If you feel you’re getting more emotionally invested then have that conversation, start with “you know how mutual friend became superkeen? Well I am starting to get superkeen so you can either go with it or tell me that you don’t feel the same”. He has previous for beating around the bush, if you want a straight forward answer, ask for it.

But feeling heartbroken after a one or two night stand doesn't seem reasonable to me

I agree. So either she was an unreasonable person, or it was more than just a few dates.

My gut tells me he can be a bit of a cad. A bit of a good time man

So, given that, is it possible that he has told you the absolute best sounding version of his treatment of your mutual acquaintance? That he describes it as "two dates, after which she inexplicably got really attached, I tried to let her down gently" and she would describe it as "we were seeing each other for a while, then he got really shitty and evasive, and told me it had only ever been casual, which was news to me"?

Yeah that sounds sensible nex. I'll go on the date and see what the temperature is afterwards. If he continues being very interested and wanting to see me I'll say clearly that I see feelings developing at some point and ask him how he feels about that.

For now I'll keep my cards close to my chest and give him plenty of room.

There are things about his values that I think are great too: eg he has never once said anything negative about his ex partner. He praises her parenting and takes pride in their good co-parenting relationship. She has three daughters and only the younger one is his biologically. However he makes great effort to maintain a good, consistent relationship with all three kids - even though the older girls know he is not their father and can remember a time when he wasn't around.

I think in a lot of ways he is really decent.

That disinterested stuff he did at the festival he invited you to is him doing to you what he did to the other girl.

I'd hazard a guess that he's either abusive (deliberately shifting the sands beneath your feet), avoidant (repelled by intimacy) or just plain barking mad.

You've been warned by friends that he's done this before. I would heed the warning - you've been lucky to get it.

Right, yes, this is my fear Pics. That is the worst case scenario.

Nope nope and nope. One more fling to get it out of your system perhaps but don't put yourself in a position to catch feels. He's been blowing hot n cold n two women have told you he us a cad and your own gut is telling you the same - listen to it!

Proceed with caution. He may be keen because you've been laid back and he's trying to win you. Or he may genuinely like you or he may think he does but then can't do intimacy. So take it easy.

Yes Musti, this has also occurred to me. We humans can sense when we have someone hooked can't we. And I genuinely can take it or leave it right now. I think he knows this. I haven't been initiating much contact at all - not because I'm a game player but because I'm so wary and just want to see what he does/how much effort he's prepared to put in. Especially after that first night at the festival. At the moment he's super keen but I wonder if I showed more interest if he might back off?

He invited you to the festival then didn't spend much time with you. Until he saw you were having fun with others, then he became interested.

I'd be wary.

Booking time off work the next morning sounds a bit too preplanned for me. What if you weren't interested in him staying over?

I'd cool it. Or walk away.

Second issue: two female friends have warned me that he doesn't treat women well

You have been warned. I just wouldn't waste your time.

Cold then hot. I'd be wary too. You can continue to date him but date others as well and keep your guard up.

Nothing disgraceful about having some fun.

Go on the date (and follow up, if you;re up for it), don't expect it to go further. If it does, that's nice. if not, you've nothing to be disappointed about, given prior warning.

It's entirely possible to form a fond attachment to a FWB without falling head over heels for them.

What you need to avoid is becoming reliant on them and that's easily done by ensuring that your life is as full and satisfying as possible and, on those occasions when you have time on your hands, avoid playing a romantic tape in your head of moon and June and hearts and flowers with the FWB centre stage in whatever fantasy you're creating.

In other words, see the arrangement as being viable for NOW and live in the moment. Those moments add up and the arrangement could run for years, but that doesn't change its inherent nature. If it comes to an abrupt end, don't mope. Be philosophical and regard it as an experience that enriched your life and its value is not diminished by the fact that it was time limited.

Please don't go down the road of emotional neediness. There's absolutely no need for you to initiate any conversation about 'feelings', future or otherwise, until he declares his.

If more women stayed level headed and avoided emotionally investing in men until such time as their putative suitors have proved themselves worthy of affection, the posts on this board would be virtually non-existent.

Oh ffs what is it with mumsnet labelling men as abusive at a drop of a hat?!

I was once casually seeing a guy for a few dates, we slept together twice. I didn’t like him and it was never going anywhere so I put a stop to it. He turned mental and started to harass me.. so yes whenever someone asks me about my dating history I mention “the crazy guy who turned psycho”. Doesn’t mean it’s a red flag it means it’s the truth - I’m sure that guy would give a different story but it doesn’t mean I’m lying.

I’m sure people on his end would probably tell others to stay away from me too despite my only crime was to quit sleeping with him.. literally that was all

This guy sounds fine. It’s easy for posters to read a tiny snippet of what you post and tell you he’s love bombing you, or that he’s abusive or that he’s gunna do the same to your as the last woman

But I actually think he sounds nice. So what he didn’t spend every minute with you at the festival? You had other friends there too! Not like you knew just him

He’s not abusive for ffs and the people who have labelled this man as that need their head sorting out. It’s really not okay to throw that word around so easily

Give the guy a chance. Speak to him about how you feel. Nobody is 100% innocent, most of us have broken someone’s heart at some stage. Does that mean we’re all full of red flags and should be avoided at all cost?

I don't think he's abusive. I think he may be avoidant.

The thing with the hot and cold. Usually this manifests as them being hot out of the gate and then cooling off in order to manipulate or distance themselves from an already invested partner. Is not one interpretation of his behaviour that his interest level was indeed luke warm until he got to know me better, and has now warmed up as a result of that? Am I being naive?

Your gut tells you he's unreliable.

Your experience tells you, unreliable.

Your friends say 'unreliable'.

What am I missing?