Can I have some tips to help with my parents please?

[TooStressyTooMessy]

I have two DCs age 6 and 9. Prior to having kids I thought I had a good relationship with my parents and so did DH. After I had children it all went wrong.

I don’t want to make the OP too long but there is no huge backstory, just that over the years they have made it very clear that they think we are bad parents and are doing it all wrong. In particular discipline. They think we are too harsh. I am not too harsh. If anything I am too soft. I went on a parenting course years ago where I was told (rightly) that my desire for the kids to spend their lives having fun and my reluctance to tell them off or discipline / upset them was not doing them any favours. I stepped up after that and started trying to be more or a parent and less of a friend. They have always been anxious, eg a sniffle could be pneumonia.

My parents hate it when the children cry and say they don’t want to hear any crying. They also get annoyed if we ask the children to do anything (eg use a knife and fork, make their bed, stop jumping on the sofa) as they think we are ‘picking’ on the kids.

Because of distance we see them every couple of months as they live a 3 ish hour drive away. This means the vast majority of the time I get on with life without them. Despite this they seem to think we are incapable as parents and that DH in particular is too harsh. They think this as I pretty much stopped disciplining the kids when they were around as the pointed looks, whispers and concerned faces were more than I could take. Once the kids are in bed they list to us the problems they see and their concerns, eg are they doing enough / too much homework, activities. It’s exhausting. I have always found parenting hard anyway and am fully aware that I am not perfect but this really doesn’t help.

With another visit looming I couldn’t take it anymore and spoke to them over the phone 2 weeks ago. I was fairly brutal and said they needed to understand that they were our children and that the constant judgement was very difficult. In addition them taking them to Smiggle, John Lewis etc and then being surprised that the kids get over excited and buy loads of tat is entirely predictable.

I have spoken to my mum since who has cancelled the next two visits with us to ‘give us space’ and says in future they will only visit for a few hours at a time. Selfishly this is a massive relief. In reality though they cannot do that much driving in a day and when we visit them it will be for longer anyway as no way are we doing a 3-4 hour car trip with two kids twice in a day.

I am totally aware there is fault on all sides. The kids love them and they really mean well. I did make it clear repeatedly as well that we are very grateful for all they do and that the kids love them.

For full disclosure, I have posted about my parents before under different names. We have a great relationship with my in-laws who treat us like adults, only give advice if asked, are pretty chilled out and the advice they give is great. They fully back us up with discipline too.

I don’t know where to go from here. I am due to speak to them tomorrow and am really worried I will end up backing down, apologising and we will go back to where we were before.

Any tips appreciated. Also any flaming for being ungrateful!

Sorry that was so long! Also to clarify it is my parents who have always been anxious, not my DC.

The new visit idea sounds great, stay in an Airbnb near to your parents? They can stay in a hotel near to you?

Thanks, that would be ideal but we just can’t afford to put them up in a hotel and would feel bad them paying to book into one . Meant to put that in my OP. Airbnb for us does sound a good idea though actually.

My mil drives me mad as she's so soft, buys all types of tat and fills my DD up with crap but I've relaxed a bit in that she doesn't see her everyday and it's like she's treating her. All kids need at least one adult like that if they are getting discipline elsewhere. Have you thought of them going out with the kids for the day so you don't have to witness their looks or maybe them taking them on holiday/weekend? You know...that might make them appreciate them far more as they don't just get the nice bits of having kids.

You've made it clear you're not interested in their judgement and if they try to bring it up, I'd repeat that ad nauseum.

I would suggest they stay in a hotel in future because having them in that close proximity will make the issue worse. If they don't want to do that, then that's their prerogative. I certainly wouldn't pay. It's up to them to maintain the relationship with their grandkids. Not you.

I think you did the right thing raising it. There was no need for them to cancel the next two visits. My parents live in Australia now and they are very difficult. During their last stay (14 days!) I had to put boundaries in because they weren't getting on and were angry all the time. So they decided to pack up and go home and I haven't heard from them in 3 1/2 years now! I'm sure yours aren't like that but they do need to quit the rumbling commentary. And I do think it's more difficult when visits need to be overnight due to distance between houses. See how it goes after the conversation and if they can't restrain themselves then look to minimise the impact of their visits by having more time in between visits or using a b & b.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no. If your parents are too difficult or batshit for you to deal with, its the same deal actually for your kids also. I would not want to further subject your kids to their emotional manipulations.

What was their response to your phone call made two weeks ago when you explained these are your children and that their constant judgment made things very difficult?.

Think your mother has done you a huge favour actually by cancelling the next two visits. Do not back down and do not apologise; why are you due to speak to her tomorrow in any case?. You really have nothing to apologise for and besides which you do not owe them a relationship. Are you still trying to seek her approval on some level?.

Your parents have used your children to further get back at your parenting skills with. If they want to visit you in future for some hours at a time then they are going to have to behave decently and without judgment towards you.

Its not down to you solely to maintain a relationship and they likely have more disposable income than you in any event (particularly if they can take the kids to Smiggle and John Lewis). I would not feel bad about them paying to stay in a hotel if they wanted to visit.

Could you meet up for a day out or weekend break halfway between you both? That way it would only be a couple of hours drive each way and I think it helps sometimes if everyone is not at 'home'.

It is horrible to feel judged, I do understand that, and to be presented with a list of failings at the end of each day.

I'm wondering if your parents feel a bit distanced from your children's life, I'm guessing your in-laws are closer? How about a weekly email to let them know what has been happening with the children that week?

You also need boundaries re your parents and these need to be both firm and consistently applied. BTW its not your fault they are like this, you did not make them that way (their own families did that to them).

Are your parents really both as bad as one another or is your mother the main instigator here of all this critiquing with your dad meekly falling into line?

I think the kids are now old enough to understand that different people have different rules- when mine were this age the expectations at home and at various grandparents were very different. If the visits are pretty infrequent loosening the reins a bit won’t hurt. And come up with a broken record response to any questioning/criticism of your parenting (once you have decided that there is nothing you can take from it) “This is how it works best for us” Or something like that.

Thanks so much for the replies. Eslteacher, yes you are right in that being spoilt once in a while by grandparents is fine and it is not so much that that is the problem. It’s the constant feeling of being judged. I need to be prepared to keep bringing it up when they keep doing it. It’s hard because a lot of it is just unsaid tutting, eye rolling, sad faces etc. Once one of the children cried and my dad had to go up for a rest because it upset him . It is absolutely the close proximity when they do visit that is the problem. If it was short visits we would be fine.

14 days lisette ?! Everything is amplified when people stay for a long time.

Atilla, yes they have a vast amount more money than us. Although I do worry that they waste it and will run out in retirement which is a concern. I have no idea what they have planned financially for that although my Dad will have a good pension.

I am desperate for their approval and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. I want them to think we are good parents and it really upsets me that they don’t think this. Weirdly I don’t really care what they think of the rest of my life . We usually speak every couple of weeks on the phone and the kids speak too which is why I am planned to speak to them tomorrow. Their response - my mum said she understood they are our children and she just wants everybody to be happy. She wants to put it behind us and move on. My Dad said nothing.

Chic, yes I have thought that meeting half way may be an option. Might look at that for the next visit. My main worry is that the girls will be so upset if my parents then do not come back and stay. They feel really out of touch I know. It’s hard as it’s a vicious circle. The more I tell them the more they stress so I tell them less and less. Email with photos is a good idea.

Atilla, they are both as bad as each other. My mum says more but my dad definitely agrees. I was really close to my mum as a kid though but I don’t think they can see me as a grown up.

Bertrand, I know what you mean about loosening the reins and for a long time I did that. The trouble is that they seem to dislike any discipline. So the kids know they can get away with anything and play up (throwing things etc). A stock broken record phrase is a great idea.

Chic, we see my in-laws ever so slightly more often but it is pretty equal. The DC speak to my parents more often. I think from the DC’s perspective they have as good a relationship with my parents as with my in-laws. You might be right through that my parents think the relationship with my in-laws is better.

"Atilla, yes they have a vast amount more money than us. Although I do worry that they waste it and will run out in retirement which is a concern. I have no idea what they have planned financially for that although my Dad will have a good pension".

I would not worry about your parents financial situation and would not give this any more power in your head.

"I am desperate for their approval and I cannot for the life of me figure out why".

Did they give you approval as a child?. Probably not or this came with a variety of unwritten conditions attached and that is perhaps why you seek it still now. Its approval that they will never give you; such always comes with conditions.

"I want them to think we are good parents and it really upsets me that they don’t think this. Weirdly I don’t really care what they think of the rest of my life . We usually speak every couple of weeks on the phone and the kids speak too which is why I am planned to speak to them tomorrow. Their response - my mum said she understood they are our children and she just wants everybody to be happy. She wants to put it behind us and move on. My Dad said nothing".

Your parents have not apologised nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions. Its their actions that have caused all this in the first place. You do not need their approval, you are an adult and thus responsible for your own life choices. It sounds like your dad is the mainly critical parent here with your mother doing her bit to further enable him. When she states that she wants to make everyone happy she perhaps really means keeping your dad happy here at all costs. Your dad may well have no intention of putting it behind him and moving on; his silence is deafening.

Have a read of the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages.

So your parents are really as bad as one another; they both enable the other to continue.

Re your comment:-
"My main worry is that the girls will be so upset if my parents then do not come back and stay. They feel really out of touch I know. It’s hard as it’s a vicious circle. The more I tell them the more they stress so I tell them less and less."

You need to keep telling your parents less and less.

You will find that the children will eventually stop mentioning the loss of the grandparents if you are not bringing it up. If you are talking about your parents in the hearing of your children then you are inviting them to keep talking about it, too. I can not over-emphasize the need for your explanation to a younger child to be calm, pragmatic, measured and short. Long explanations make you look defensive which will tend to peak the interest of the child and prompt the child to push the issue. You can gauge what is appropriate information depending on the age of the child. If the child is older and has experienced or witnessed the grandparents in action then you can say more.

Your children need emotionally healthy grandparents to have around them. Your parents are really not emotionally healthy to be at all around. You would not tolerate this from a friend either.

I think you’ve done everything right. Your kids, your parenting style. You’ve also asked your parents to respect that. The only thing left for you to do, and is probably going to be the hardest part, is to let go of wanting their approval.

As I very often didn’t get my DM’s approval I stopped seeking it.

Parenting is hard op. I also struggle with knowing whether I’ve been too strict or too lax or handled a situation badly. I often feel like I’m simply not equipped to handle parenting stuff sometimes. My dear old dad gave me the best advice when I was pregnant with DC1 and said “oh you’ll figure it out as you go along, you’ll just muddle through” which I really clung to. DM was the opposite, telling me what I should be doing or dressing advice up “when you were little and did X, I just did Y, and it nipped it in the bud” when it wasn’t asked for.

It must be hard as a parent to step back and bite your tongue when your own kids have children. But it’s a new dynamic and adjustment for everyone.

You’re doing all the right things, honest.

And Attila speaks a lot of sense. Even if it’s hard to accept.

TipTopTap so true about muddling through parenting and not feeling equipped! I was absolutely stunned when one of the mums who I always thought was totally in control and amazing said she just muddled though all the time. Now I know her better I see she has her own struggles with parenting, as almost all of us do.

Thanks so much for your advice Atilla as it does make sense. I do feel pretty deafened at the moment.

I have NO IDEA what to say when I speak to them at the weekend on the phone. Do I just act normal? My mum I think it will be ok. She has already phoned me back. My Dad has not spoken to me at all which is not and didn’t reply to a text but I don’t know whether just to be bright and breezy with my Dad or do i bring things up again? Don’t want to go over and over it as I have said my piece. Of course it depends what he says but I think he might be very quiet. I did say I would phone them at the weekend and I want to anyway because I will have to do it at some point and want to get it over with.

I need a script!

Hi stressy(friends from another thread)
DO NOT BACK DOWN!!!!

they are YOUR children and I personally think that you are doing just fine and are most definitely not some fun sucking ogre who should chill out...if I let mine get away with anything like they seem to think is ok it would be like living in hell!!
You may have been a very easy child,so they didn't need to discipline you but your girls are not you and they want/need boundarues,as do you in order to have the kind of family life you want.
Parenting is hard,and if your own family are very critical of your choices it must be very hard on your confidence as mum to be "doing it right"
Well I'm here to firmly tell you that you are doing it right.their (your parents)approval may feel important but as an adult it's not the be all and end all in the scheme of things.i have NC with my family (parents are passed away now,but have an older sister who lives locally)as her opinions of me were hyper critical and others looking in at our relationship agreed it wasn't "normal" or ok for her to treat me like that.i do regret the lack of "roots" and sense of family belonging my children have but the cost of a relationship with her would mean I would be miserable,anxious and question my judgements which as I watch my lot growing up and are complimented on their manners/behaviour I know I'm doing ok and that would be detrimental to us all
You don't have to give up,but do step back
I agree with chic about meeting halfway between your homes
If the girls want more contact could they facetime weekly/ monthly?
You can't choose your family,but you can take responsibility for how you allow them to make you feel(ment in a very kind way)
Repeat after me "I am doing what's best for my family" whenever you feel tempted to back down and let them steam roller you

Hi Toostressy this sounds so difficult and sorry to hear it is still ongoing.

Bravo for broaching the problem directly with your mother as that must have been hard.

My first reaction (fwiw) is that (respectfully) grandparents should "butt out"! They have had their own go at child-rearing. And now it's your turn to raise your DC how you see fit. It's their role is to support you to do this in the way you want to do it. And to offer advice only when requested! Sounds as though they need to hear this message loud and strong a few times before they "get" it.

I'm in my mid-fifties and honestly I have seen (and experienced) so much of this in my life - so many mothers as it happens in my circle of family and friends - who are over-bearing and interfering and who cause so much misery for those on the receiving end. Right now a lovely friend and colleague of ours is going through an awful divorce (with two DC almost the same age as yours) mainly because the couple's two mothers could not help but stick their beaks in and demand that the GC be present with them in one country for Christmas and the other in theirs, making an ordinary stressful situation (expat/dual nationality couple) so much worse. And all done in the name of love apparently! Instead of squabbling over who gets to see the GC, they should have been supporting their own children and the couple and family unit as a whole.

Your case is unusual though because most parents who are anxious usually want more control not less! The fact that this all started when the DC are born is interesting too. What were they like as parents? Strict or soft? Do they feel they have failed in some way in their own parenting (too strict perhaps?) And are now subconsciously trying to make up for that through their GC?

Do you have siblings. If so, what do they think?

Another thought ... your father having to go upstairs and lie down because he was apparently upset over strict parenting/ one of DC crying , is very extreme behaviour! It sounds very controlling too. How is his relationship with your dh if you don't mind me asking? Does your father find it hard that you are married and have your own family now perhaps? Is this constant disapproval his way of expressing that, and it's nothing to do with the DC really. Maybe? (Sorry if this is all totally wrong!)

It must be so v difficult. I agree with loads of what PPS have said on here ; except that it's not so easy not to want approval from your parents precisely because you love them and familial love is a powerful thing. And call me old-fashioned but I kind of do think we owe our parents a relationship (barring abusive situations of course) because most parents don't set out to intentionally harm, they often try and do their best, even though that "best" can turn out to be very poor indeed!

I agree with Chic about meeting on neutral territory etc and, if possible, asking them to stay in a b&b if they can afford it.

Good luck . And keep on battling!

Write bullet points of what you need to say if it helps
Your dad has no right to question your parenting(unless it's reckless)and it is abusive controlling behaviour to stonewall someone with views not in keeping with theirs to get the results they want(for you to back down)
I'd talk to mum.say it's hard living so far apart- from a travelling point if view can we meet midpoint for the day?
From a "being involved with the kids" would they like to facetime them/email,even write letters and send pictures and cards kids have made(mine love the rare sight of a letter addressed to them from do distant aunt)?

Oh I forget to add if dad doesn't want to talk then say.thats absolutely his choice and I'm fine with that
He needs to see you are able to accept yourself and how you do things and if he doesn't like it that it's his problem,not yours.x

Ha Zoo! Snap about the "not backing down"!

Seriously, you are in the right here Toostressy. Cling on to that.

Once one of the children cried and my dad had to go up for a rest because it upset him

This is a bit of a warning sign to me, it's a personal question and you don't have to answer it on here but does your dad have mental health issues? The taking to your bed is a bit of a red flag for this, when they don't want to face something they shut down by going to sleep. If he raises anything on the phone push back on this bit 'but it upsets you so much that you have to leave them'.

On the flipside - my own parents hated hearing their grandchildren cry! One of my siblings was very strict over bedtime routines even when in grandparents house and the children did get very distressed. Grandparents suggested they stayed at other siblings house where they went more often - this was because they thought the stay at theirs was distressing the children, I can tell you that the sibling with the children was crushed that they didn't want them to stay. A bit of straight discussion would have really helped there!

My DD has spent the most time at the grandparents house by far, and her remaining grandparent is still thrilled every time she just plonks herself down on the sofa as she is so comfortable there, they were convinced she would forget the place and get upset. Daft, really!

Don’t dish it if you can’t take it! That’s what this makes me think of. Your parents obviously expected you to respond with grace and reflection on their barrage of criticism on your parenting; you therefore have the right to expect exactly the same from them when you criticise theor parenting - no sulking, and and from them. If they can‘t, they need to reflect on how it feels to be attacked. Personally, if it felt like the air needed clearing I might ask my parents how they felt about the conversation you’d had, and I draw that parallel. I might ask them to suggest a way forward that felt to them mutually respectful, kind and would not cause hurt. And i would be clear that I had not be looking for space but for them to modify a behaviour you experienced as painful and hurtful.

Sorry for typos, damn phone