Can I have some tips to help with my parents please?

[TooStressyTooMessy]

I have two DCs age 6 and 9. Prior to having kids I thought I had a good relationship with my parents and so did DH. After I had children it all went wrong.

I don’t want to make the OP too long but there is no huge backstory, just that over the years they have made it very clear that they think we are bad parents and are doing it all wrong. In particular discipline. They think we are too harsh. I am not too harsh. If anything I am too soft. I went on a parenting course years ago where I was told (rightly) that my desire for the kids to spend their lives having fun and my reluctance to tell them off or discipline / upset them was not doing them any favours. I stepped up after that and started trying to be more or a parent and less of a friend. They have always been anxious, eg a sniffle could be pneumonia.

My parents hate it when the children cry and say they don’t want to hear any crying. They also get annoyed if we ask the children to do anything (eg use a knife and fork, make their bed, stop jumping on the sofa) as they think we are ‘picking’ on the kids.

Because of distance we see them every couple of months as they live a 3 ish hour drive away. This means the vast majority of the time I get on with life without them. Despite this they seem to think we are incapable as parents and that DH in particular is too harsh. They think this as I pretty much stopped disciplining the kids when they were around as the pointed looks, whispers and concerned faces were more than I could take. Once the kids are in bed they list to us the problems they see and their concerns, eg are they doing enough / too much homework, activities. It’s exhausting. I have always found parenting hard anyway and am fully aware that I am not perfect but this really doesn’t help.

With another visit looming I couldn’t take it anymore and spoke to them over the phone 2 weeks ago. I was fairly brutal and said they needed to understand that they were our children and that the constant judgement was very difficult. In addition them taking them to Smiggle, John Lewis etc and then being surprised that the kids get over excited and buy loads of tat is entirely predictable.

I have spoken to my mum since who has cancelled the next two visits with us to ‘give us space’ and says in future they will only visit for a few hours at a time. Selfishly this is a massive relief. In reality though they cannot do that much driving in a day and when we visit them it will be for longer anyway as no way are we doing a 3-4 hour car trip with two kids twice in a day.

I am totally aware there is fault on all sides. The kids love them and they really mean well. I did make it clear repeatedly as well that we are very grateful for all they do and that the kids love them.

For full disclosure, I have posted about my parents before under different names. We have a great relationship with my in-laws who treat us like adults, only give advice if asked, are pretty chilled out and the advice they give is great. They fully back us up with discipline too.

I don’t know where to go from here. I am due to speak to them tomorrow and am really worried I will end up backing down, apologising and we will go back to where we were before.

Any tips appreciated. Also any flaming for being ungrateful!

Thanks so much guys . Yes zoo and SC I will need bullet points written down as I have realised that what my Dad may well say is that he doesn’t understand at all why I am upset. So I will have to go through the whole thing again. They may need to hear it a few times .

This really resonated with me zoo: I would be miserable,anxious and question my judgements. That is EXACTLY how I feel with them.

I actually broached it with both of them together on speakerphone but only my mum actually said anything at all.

SC how sad for your friends. Must be hard enough to be an expat with young DC. As a child I was very good. I’ve said this before on here but I almost always behaved very well. I simply couldn’t see the point of being bad. A bit of mild rebellion as a teenager maybe but really nothing. My mum was very soft and very much a friend. My Dad was actually fairly strict!! Although often not there as he worked long hours. He is a much more hands on grandparent than he was as a father. Chic, not mental health issues no but I have often wondered about high functioning autism or something like that. I hesitate to say that on here and am in no way saying he has it but my mum and I did wonder. He struggles to see anyone else’s viewpoint.

SC they hate my DH. They used to love him until we had kids. They think he is too harsh. He can be a bit occasionally but they see the worst of that as when they are there I don’t discipline at all so he has to do it.

I think he does find it hard that I have grown up yes. I have one brother. He was actually more badly behaved than me as a child but nothing too dramatic. He never really grew up though and was a bit of an eternal student for a while. Interestingly he also dreads their visits and tells them as little as possible. He doesn’t even let them in the house now so they can’t criticise the mess or anything and they meet for a few hours in town. They live closer to him though (he has no kids).

crazyhead yes! They absolutely did expect us to reflect on everything we get wrong as parents. FGS surely most parents spend their lives reflecting on parenting anyway . Good idea to ask them how they feel, I could open with that.

Looks like good advice. Some parents find it hard to let go being parents when they become grandparents. Hopefully they'll obey the boundaries set now. I think not seeing the kids' parents as adults is very common. You kind of get double generation oar-sticking parenting going on

Yes, I suppose I have to wait and see how they behave now.

Toostressy the fact that your brother doesn't t let your parents in the house says it all really! It's definitely them NOT you (in case you were in any doubt). And if they hate your dh, it is never going to be an easy relationship. As pps have suggested you have to present it as it is, on your terms, and if they don't like it, then tough bananas I'm afraid.

How awful it must be to have your parents love but with conditions attached; no wonder you feel miserable about it.

it is abusive controlling behaviour to stonewall someone with views not in keeping with theirs to get the results they want(for you to back down) I agree it can be Zoo but there is something about Toostressy's father's extreme reaction (unless he reacts over dramatically like this all the time to other things) that makes you wonder if there is something more behind it. No need to answer this publically obviously Toostressy, but is there any chance he was mistreated or harshly treated as a child?

Hi, he does occasionally take to his bed after a row with my mum so it’s not totally out of the ordinary . Can’t say I blame him sometimes - I’d love to take to my bed sometimes when people have annoyed me but... children to look after . Erm, I don’t think he was treated super harshly but he had a fairly tough rural upbringing with lots of siblings so not much money to go round. He was definitely the golden child though, he’s very academic and that was celebrated. I know being the golden child brings it’s own pressures.

I have NO IDEA what to say when I speak to them at the weekend on the phone. Do I just act normal? My mum I think it will be ok. She has already phoned me back. My Dad has not spoken to me at all which is not and didn’t reply to a text but I don’t know whether just to be bright and breezy with my Dad or do i bring things up again? Don’t want to go over and over it as I have said my piece. Of course it depends what he says but I think he might be very quiet. I did say I would phone them at the weekend and I want to anyway because I will have to do it at some point and want to get it over with.

Gosh op, my heart goes out to you. You sound 100% in the position of child, not adult, when you talk about your parents. That's extremely tough when you're trying to parent yourself. Very stressful.

I would really encourage you to imagine someone who you think if as "a woman in her own right", as a powerful, fully adult woman who has compassion and a clear mind. A Maya Angelou type of person is who I am thinking of but maybe someone else will come to mind for you.

Think about that person and how she would deal with these conversations and situations.

And then pretend to be her for a bit. Just as an experiment. Not just in external behaviour but internally too. How would she talk to herself about her parents behaving in this way? What would she say and not say? How would she react when her parents went off on one again, etc.?

How would she imagine "success" in this situation? I daresay your measure is "my parents approval". That's why you keep returning to them and wanting to talk about it again and again.

What about a woman of power and grace- what would she think? I would suggest something like, "I stay in touch with my parents, make good decisions for my DC, and allow disagreement and judgement to just be, without feeling I need to somehow respond to it". In that vein I doubt she'd continually bring up what she has already spoken to her parents about. She would call and ask about the weather, share the children's news, ask after the health of her parents, send her love, and close the call gracefully.

She might go and have a quick cry afterwards, because it's sad when intimacy between family is compromised by judgemental attitudes. But she would then pick herself up, assure herself she did well, and do something else.

You dont have to be the little girl in this situation anymore. That little girl inside you is one that YOU can protect and love. Your parents arent being nice to her, so keep her close to you. Perhaps start testing out the powerful, graceful, compassionate adult that also dwells inside you. That adult can care for the little girl, and also behave with grace towards your parents.

Wishing you the very best. Counseling would help you so much x do consider it

@rvby your post is beautiful. I am not at all in the same situation as the OP but I'm in that strange finally getting independence stage and realising I still crave my parents' approval and that this isn't necessarily ideal moving forwards. Your post is so helpful and optimistic. Thank you.

OP, this is a really difficult situation and I want to say how brave (and sensible!) I think you are for broaching it directly with your parents. That shows respect for them and yourself, as well as an inner strength. If you could do it then you can absolutely do it again.

You're not only doing this for yourself, you're doing it so your DH isn't vilified, you're doing this so that your DC grow up with consistent boundaries and expectations. Do it for them if you struggle to do it for you at any point.

Amazing post rvby, thank you. Yes, I think I would view success as my parents approval. Actually though they are so critical of other parents (not just me!) that I wonder why I am so desperate for it. I will have a think and work on pretending to be confident.

I suppose I thought if we just have a normal conversation I would be brushing it under the carpet (they are fine on the phone usually; it’s in person that they are difficult). But maybe I shouldn’t bring it up again as I have said my piece and just wait to see what they say? Aaaagggh, basically I am not sure do I just go in bright and breezy or do I try to have a post mortem of the conversation?

flipper, I hadn’t thought about imagining I am doing it for DH and the kids, great idea.

Here's a question:

What would be the ideal outcome of a post mortem.

What would need to happen for you to not want to bring it up again?

I hadn’t thought about imagining I am doing it for DH and the kids, great idea.

The best thing is you don't even have to imagine it, it genuinely is for them too! Best of luck, you'll do great.

I think I would need my Dad to acknowledge we had even had the conversation. Even if he told me he disagreed with every word.

My concern is if I say nothing they will think I was just having a moment, or stressed and they will go back to how they were before. It has taken me years to get to the point of even speaking properly to them. I am scared of it not even being acknowledged. I am also scared of dreading seeing them at Christmas. If I knew if they agreed with me or not at least I could plan things. It almost feels as if we could all easily pretend it hasn’t happened iyswim?

Hi TSTM,

A wonderful post rvby

My guess TSTM is that your parents will deflect anything from you they see as criticism or an attack even though it is not. You cannot ultimately reason with the unreasonable. It is not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way. I also noted without all that much surprise that your brother cannot abide them and stays well away from them; you will ultimately I think have to adopt the same stance.

You do not have to see them at Christmas if you do not want to.

@TooStressyTooMessy

I think I would need my Dad to acknowledge we had even had the conversation

Totally understandable. Being heard is a very very basic human need. We are social, communicative creatures who know in a deep way that if someone hears us, there's a chance we can get through to them and be understood by them.

A child whose parents haven't acknowledged what she has said, will try over and over again to be acknowledged because she knows that without that, she has no hope of being understood.

The thing is though, something to ponder - your dad is very likely to know that if he acknowledges your message, he's taken a step towards understanding you. And he knows that will be a relief to you.

So he will withhold that.
Because he wants you to back down.

He also knows (not necessarily consciously) that if he withholds his acknowledgement, you'll keep chasing like a child after him. Hes keeping himself in power in the situation. He wants it that way, so hes really unlikely to relinquish that.

The way to get some power back for yourself is to drop the rope and stop chasing his acknowledgement.

It doesn't matter if your message didnt get through or they try to revert to type. YOU are the grownup here. You arent responsible for them agreeing with you.

As long as you are trailing behind your parents wanting their acknowledgement, they are going to withhold it. Because they want to stay in control and to keep that power over you... because they believe they know best and need to control you for your own good.

The trick is though, they are allowed to think that... just as you are allowed to not participate in the power game x

Very true Atilla, they may very well deflect. I think I will go in as suggested with a polite adult conversation. If they seem to want to talk about things or if my Dad refuses to speak to me then I can use crazyhead’s suggestion of asking them how they feel about the conversation we had.

As long as you are trailing behind your parents wanting their acknowledgement, they are going to withhold it. Because they want to stay in control and to keep that power over you... because they believe they know best and need to control you for your own good.

Yep a thousand times to this.

Wow rvby amazing post! That bit Lisette quoted is so true.

Thank you all so much, you have been amazing . I will keep reading over this thread and try to remember that I am the grown up.

I've just got back to this thread after an evening out; interesting to read these responses.

Could you possibly go with a compromise between rbvy's model of a graceful powerful woman and the need to be heard and - next time you speak to them - say something along the lines of "I want you to know that I stand by what I said during our last conversation and with that in mind, I would like to invite you on Boxing Day this year, but only if you can remain supportive and non-judgemental" or some such, maybe ...so it's kind of moving the whole thing on with you in the driving seat. Maybe? The point being that you don't need their permission to move things on in a way that protects and suits you and your immediate family. You don't need their agreement because you are making things clear that that is your expectation. So you are being welcoming, while at the same time being clear about your terms.

The real test of course will be how they behave when they next visit and how you will respond in the event that they don't comply ... which is something you could decide in advance so you can then be very clear and calm in your own mind about it.

That's interesting about your father and the way he deals with confrontation btw.
Sorry for the pop psychology but it strikes me that there is a lot of avoidance of confrontation going on in your family. Your father avoiding criticism from others or any sort of potentially confronting situation by going upstairs to lie down. (A truly confident adult would not do this.) Your mum avoiding any spiky issues by playing peace-maker and just "wanting everyone to be happy". Your brother playing grey rock. And you (up until now) suffering in silence. It makes you wonder what everyone is afraid of/trying to protect. That's why it is such a hard and brave thing you are doing by actually speaking up - you are throwing a spanner in to the works - and things may not glide along smoothly for a while but that's ok!

Any chance your dad's getting sensory overload if the kids cry or there's a row so he retreats?

Oh maybe Lisette yes! He’d never admit it though.

Yes I like that phrase SC. I guess I won’t really know until Christmas time how things really are.

Yep, good family description. All pretty conflict avoidant here . In fact that is something that I have had to really try to get used to. I always thought that any time the kids were upset then that was terrible and I had to stop it immediately by giving them what they wanted. I still find it hard to realise that kids cry and bicker and that is normal (within reason of course). I still find it really hard to understand that kids need and supposedly want boundaries even if they don’t show it.

My parents definitely don’t get that as grandparents even though they did give us boundaries as a child.

Sorry, not much practical help this, but it's v interesting how and why that conflict avoidant pattern has arisen in your family and who established it first (yr father?). And why that instinct was strong enough to continue through to the next generation.. . . It makes you wonder if your dad is covering something up/ afraid of something/suffering from something , although of course I could be completely wrong about this! Its a shame it's such a mystery because if you could get to the heart of it, it might help you to break through it.

Anyway I guess the old advice about not being able to control other people's behaviour but being in charge of how you react to it, very much applies here. You don't have to understand it all in order to define, set out, state, your red lines - and I guess it's up to them as to whether they will cross them or not.

Very best of luck with it all and I hope things improve. Stand strong over Christmas.

excuse me being blunt, but I think you are overlooking that first and foremost you are a wife and a mother. you decided to take up those roles. it was a decision you could make, because you are an adult. indeed only an adult can make such decisions. so I would say that is your primary duty, responsibility, identity even.
your are also the child of your parents, of course. but that was not a role that you chose, it has its own duties, but the dynamic is quite different.
what I mean is, that much of this problem seems to be continuing because you see yourself, or feel yourself to be a needy child, desperate for your parents' approval.
you say that you opt out of disciplining the children when your parents are present, so as not to upset them.
this further distances them from your husband, as he is not being an obedient child and cow-towing to them.
he is stepping up to the role of father. it's not really fair to him to leave him isolated in that parental role.
you need to stand together, else these divisions could widen into a split.
what would he say afterwards, we had a lovely family but my wife kept letting her parents interfere too much, and eventually I got fed up with it, all the tension etc, couldn't relax in my own home..

I suggest if they keep on with their lists of your errors, you breezily say with a laugh, for a moment I thought you were seriously suggesting that husband and I are not in charge of our own children.. how funny you are dear parents, it would make a good sitcom, where the grandparents behave as if the actual parents are mere child-minders who need to be constantly picked up on what is expected of them in terms of child-care.
just a thought
good luck.

Yes SC, I keep trying to tell myself I am in control of how I react to them. I’m fine until they are here and then it is the looks, the sighs and tuts that get me. The worst bit is the look of sheer sadness on their faces - you can see they think the girls are so unfortunate to have us as parents and that we are cruel to them and emotionally damaging them. In fact I think that’s it... they view any discipline at all as emotional abuse. I would wonder if I did over discipline but friends laugh when I suggest that - if anything I absolutely don’t have enough control, let alone too much.

alexdgr8, you are absolutely right. DH and I have so many arguments about it. It can’t carry on. I spend most of the visits just hissing at him to please not say anything and to let the kids do what they want just until Mum and Dad leave. Then I spend the rest of the time telling the children to please not cry until they leave. It is completely exhausting and I feel an utter failure as a wife and a mother. I count the minutes until the visit is over then I resume normal life as a vaguely competent mum. DH and I usually end the visit not speaking to each other. That’s why I spoke to them this time as I just can’t keep going on like this.

Any tips on how to deal with the unspoken disapproval? If they say it outright I can challenge but it’s the looks that are the worst.

i guess you have two choices: ignore it or confront it.

Just because they are your parents doesn’t mean you have to put up with any of this. But you also need to figure out how to disentangle your own emotions from it all so that you can get to a point where you are confident enough in your own behavior to not care. No easy op, though I do think counselling could help you with this (it did me, though my reasons for starting were very different).

Counselling would be great, maybe one day when I can afford it! Thank you, lots to think about. I suppose they are the only two choices yes.