This morning I told my adult DD that I hated her guts...........

[HorribleDD]

It's true and I hate that I feel that way about her.

She's almost 23. Just finished Uni, which TBF she only did as a bit of a doss and as it was an easy option to get money. She finished with a 2:2 as she spent most of the time going out getting drunk, taking hard drugs and not bothering to turn up for lectures.

She lived at home (not my choice), hasn't paid rent, does nothing around the house to help, you can't have a conversation with her without her going off on one shouting and swearing.

She can't find a job now, although she is trying, but spends much of the day in bed then awake all night. She is probably depressed but won't do anything to help herself like take some exercise or sort out her sleeping. She can get up if she's going to meet friends etc.

She invited her cousin to stay this weekend without asking if it was OK and I asked her to get up and tidy round before she came as I had to take my youngest to a party yesterday. I had to pick the cousin up from the station (20 mins away) as well as DH at work. I got home and DD was still in bed at 1.30 pm. She was contacting the cousin and didn't bother to tell me that she was almost at our stop until she'd been waiting there for 10 minutes. I then had to drop everything and rush off to get her. They stayed in last watching TV as cba to go out. I had planned to repaint the house this weekend so really pissed off.

She has spent the morning in bed while cousin has been up, won't now go off for a coffee or something with her so I'm needing to entertain her which I could do without (we are not close to her family, I used to have her and her brothers in the school hols etc but it was never reciprocated and her mother's an arse).

She constantly swears and stamps about. Brings up stuff about my abusive childhood and telling me I deserved it etc. She's horrendous.

I can't kick her out as she has nowhere to go. DH is sick of her too. She'll even square up to him if he tries to talk to her about her behaviour. She's threatened to 'knock me out' numerous times! Her nickname from her tutors at college was 'Hulk Smash' which sums her up. She has been sacked before from a part time job for her behaviour.

I know she has big issues but she won't go to her GP or source any help. I'm thinking hormones and MH.

I have 3 younger DC, one with SN with his own behaviour issues, and I've had enough.

What can I do?

Maybe you expand on that 'genesis' Delores?

"She was at the forefront of everything." - It is a very hard, if not impossible, psychological burden for a child to bear when they are in some way objects for a parent's compensatory behaviours. ("The greatest burden on the life of the child is the unlived life of the parent" - Carl Jung).

You refused your own self-care in order to be there for her.

You did not involve her in your grief. But she will have sensed it anyway, and will not have been able to articulate it nor make sense of it. And because you hid it, it has been something you have both had to deal with privately, and separately. Grief separates, and that's when it destroys.

I understand why you did what you did, and I re-emphasise that it is NOT your fault. But until you can see that your daughter is dealing with not only her grief, but yours as well, then it will continue to drive a larger and larger wedge between you.

What we don't face, we leave to others to face for us, whether they want to or not.

She is 23 not 13, she can get off her arse and get down to the council as she is now homeless. Seriously she needs a reality check.

What uni grant did she get? I thought she lived at home? I still don't get why you say it was easy money?

One of the biggest shocks that came to me as a parent was that you can love your children but not always like them.

You are the one in charge here, though, OP. It is your home, your rules and if she's not prepared to respect them, then she needs to move out. I think you need to be a lot firmer and mean it. You need to present a united front with your DH and set some firm time frames out for finding a job and a clear list of what she's expected to do everyday to be a functioning member of the household. She's an adult and needs to start acting like one.

How did she get into Uni if she failed all her GCSE'S?

She has done wonderful getting a 2:2

Still does not explain her behaviour, she sounds unwell.

I can empathise with your daughter a bit because after Uni I moved back home and I remember feeling in a rut. On my course dope was endemic with that age group but most stopped a few years after Uni. As she's never left home she's immature as she's never had to compromise, living with strangers.
I think if she could get a job, lots of problems would resolve- easier said than done I know.

You're getting a hard time on here OP. I'm reading this as you being at the end of your tether sadly. She doesn't sound like a lovely well rounded nearly mid-20yr woman at all. Sounds like shes had alot of opportunity thrown her way and has tossed it back at you all. If I were in your position I'd give her the contact details to all the local support groups, print off some available studio flats in the area (?) and a letter telling her why she needs to be out in a month or something. Shes 23. She'll be fine! Seems like she needs a nudge out of the nest tbh.

OP, I think it's bloody harsh and frankly disgusting that people on here are telling you that you're a bad mother. They have never walked a mile in your shoes, they don't know you, and you've touched on childhood abuse and loss of a baby which is absolutely heartbreaking. Are any of us perfect parents? No. And I can bet that most haven't been what you've been through either. To say you are a bad mother is bullshit and not remotely productive. So those posters ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Im sure in your heart of hearts you know that you don't hate her. If you did, you wouldn't be on here despairing. You'd be packing her stuff and physically throwing her out the door. The only thing you really need to know is what drives your daughter? What does she want from her life? Do you ever get chance to speak normally or are all your interactions fraught?

Obviously you can't force her to go to the doctors, but could you gently remind her about the endocrine genetic issue in the family and explain that if you can get to the bottom of it, together, then all this pain might just go away? I'm sure she doesn't want to live her life this way, but she doesn't know any other way and it sounds like she spent a lot of time at uni going wild to escape from her moods and the mental issues that the hormone issue may well have caused.

I don’t think your DD would tell you if she had suffered any abuse/trauma to be honest. Because you set the example by being stoic when you lost your baby and DD was 4. You said you put on a brave face, she would have seen that as “what you do”- that you repress all that hurt and not talk about it, not show emotion. So first, your DD has been shown from an early age that trauma is not something this family shares.
Second, she probably knows that if she did, you’d one man up her. If she confides in you, because you constantly undermine her, you are more likely to say how you had it worse and how what happened to her is her fault. Even a positive of getting a degree you’ve made out to be negative and a disappointment.

My dd has mental health issues and if she ever were to get through uni and achieve a 2:2 I think I'd be crying tears of relief for the rest of my life

of course you can kick her out - she may need this kick up the arse

time to get a bit tougher!

Time to get tough and stop enabling her she is 23 just tell her to move out

Sounds really, really tough.
When was the last time there was any positive or even neutral interaction between you? Haven't really any good advice 'cept I guess to look for the tiniest chinks of light.
Does your daughter/ has she ever recognise(d) and acknowledged any of her behaviour is destructive? If so what is her explanation?
You sound ground down by the whole situation and very reactive (understandably)- maybe an SSRI would help - won't change your daughter but it probably would limit the amount of rage you feel (speaking from experience).

Wow, I have a great deal of sympathy OP , have had similar except luckily it was at the age of 16 to 17 and post GCSEs. It did mean however our son dropped out of 6th form and went and did an apprenticeship instead in a technical area. Best thing ever, he’s been independent since 17 and lived in house shares and whilst he is still a bit crap with money other areas sorted themselves out. He is now doing the reverse and going to a very good Uni at 21 and combining with a decent job and studying something he loves , he drives and whilst a bit bolshy because that’s his nature, made a life for himself. . I was supportive at the time, but to be honest you do reach the end of your tether because it impacts on everything. It also I found affects your ability to function yourself because unlike a child they are big, and argue back. It’s like having a colleague you don’t much like living with you 24/7 , even if you do care very much about them. I honestly don’t think her degree level matters one jot to be honest, so I wouldn’t bang on about that, if she was a confident motivated gal with a good work ethic, she would likely be in work of some kind and could build on that. Tons of grad schemes too are fine with 2.2– but they want the personality and drive to go with it and the ability to be in at 9 every day. I would take her out somewhere casual for a chat and say ‘ look, I really would like to help but can’t do so if you are being defensive and don’t want to help yourself’. Can we both look together at some practicalities and think what you would like to do etc and see if we can kickstart this’and set some ground rules because I am not feeling happy with the atmosphere. I did that with my son and it worked. If she is at home she could easily as well do an apprenticeship even if not well paid. If she isn’t paying rent I would set her a list of tasks you need doing too in return for being catered for, good time for her to learn to cook too for a family , she may actually enjoy it.

What makes it worse is that we lost her sister at birth when she was 4. After experiencing that, and my childhood abuse, I always wanted to make my DC happy and to have a good life where they felt loved. DD uses that against me. She even told me it was my fault her sister died, I let her die etc.

I know someone who sounds EXACTLY like your daughter and she had a sibling that died when she was little. You say she has not experienced trauma yet she has had a horrific trauma at a very important time of her life. Your daughter needs to see a therapist imo.

She was an only child until she was 5 due to losing her sister, lots of attention. She was very excited at the prospect of having one. I had twin boys a year later which is where it all went wrong for her.

Can you really not understand a 5 year old waiting for a sister to come home, that not happening and then getting two brothers at 6? On top of all the repressed grief?

What’s her relationship with her brothers like?

No Blueemerald. Thats not how it happened. We found out two weeks before DD2 was born that she was going to die. I did much of my grieving while DD1 was at nursery by beating the shit out of the soft furnishings and screaming at fuck you at the Universe. We had to explain it to DD1 in a child friendly way of course. She picked out one of her teddies for her coffin. Nothing was repressed!

I wish someone had told me at the time that I should have been on my knees, an absolute mess, broken, so as to set a good example to DD. That really excuses her behaviour .

The only real trauma she has suffered was being rushed to hospital, just three months after we lost DD2, with a suspected stomach tumour. She had been in agony for a week but we kept getting fobbed off by different GPs. We were told to prepare ourselves for losing her. She had to be held down by 4 doctors and nurses to be intubated as she kept pulling it out. She was hysterical and I had to leave the room as I couldn't bear it. DH was furious at me for doing that so I felt very guilty. it turned out to be a burst appendix and if we hadn't taken her to hospital, she would have died. I guess she was spoilt a bit after that. I didn't know I was already pregnant at that point so her brothers were born soon afterwards and they were hard work but we still did a lot of 1:1 stuff with her.

She was even quite jealous when we had DS3 when she was 13. Proper 'he's ruined my life' teenage bullshit!

She gets on with them depending on her mood. She was lovely with the twins until she started puberty. One has ASD and she deliberately goads him at times.

Anyway, she's got two interviews this week. Fingers crossed at least she'll be out of the house and then we can work to finding her a house share.

OP your DD sounds a lot like my sibling. Who is all grown up now and says all the stuff he did when younger drink/drugs/crime was because he wanted to, and all his friends were up to it. No deep childhood issues, no searching for a safe place 🙄 or whatever some people like to spout. I dont believe people are born bad, but people can do bad things or make bad decisions all off their own back.

I wont pick apart your parenting or use your past as a reason why your DD is the way she is. But I will say she is old enough to help herself now. Maybe tell her she is going to have to find somewhere else to live if this continues, encourage her to see her GP. Good luck, Its tough for everyone.

I hope she finds a job and a house share OP, it sounds as if you really need some space away from her.

she is 23 ffs.

she shouldn't need help to find a job, she's not a baby!

I would tell her shes got 3 months to sort herself out, and that's it.

I think you both need to calm down to be honest, but I can see why you feel the way you do when you've supported her and she continues to throw it back in her face.

This kind of person is why nobody respects anyone under 25, because they assume we're all this useless, lazy and rude.

OP I haven’t had experience of this kind of thing but wonder do you step back and let cousin decide to stay or leave- it’s not for you to entertain them if DD is in bed. Once cousin home couple you and DH sit down with her and explain something has to change- you DO LOVE HER AND ATE TRULY SORRY for saying you didn’t- that you both need to work on your relationship and can you all agree a plan together- stick it on the fridge- start with what do you want DD? - then things like counselling for both of you ideally she may not agree initially but put that you will, eventually you could go together perhaps - DD to see an endocrinologist- you or DH could offer to take her to the - she does need to move out and start her own life- how you you all see that happening
Forget fault for now- write down what each of you want ( positive things) and how that may happen, then what do each of you need to do.
It’s a mountain but you need to start somewhere- the deeper traumas need time investigating and it may take years to understand and come to terms with but at the same time there are practical steps to put in place and take. None of it is beyond understanding but you have to go and tell her/ write and tell her if she’s ranting that you love her and are sorry, she will likely rip it up but keep repeating it

One thing that stands out for me is that she smoked pot as a teenager. I have seen first hand that can lead to serious mental health issues later on. If not dealt with she may function less and less well as an adult.

I think you should be firm with her and insist see a therapist as a condition of her being allowed to stay at home. She needs to change her routine and as you mentioned before - sleep well and exercise.
If you can re-offer her the private therapy you should but be firm with her otherwise you may be stuck with her forever!

But having the 2:2 can be a basis for a future career, teacher training requires a 2:2 or a master conversion course in computer science. She has options so you should focus on that rather than look back at childhood woes.

I would work to change the things you can for now and worry about everything else later. You need space from each other and she needs to start the "adulting" she says she was avoiding. She won't do this living at home because of the dynamic there. She'll be better off in a flat share or bedsit. I would start researching private lets as well as housing association and other options at the same time. She needs a job and you're helping her with that so I'd make that my mission in life as work and housing are the two key things. Unfortunately as her family you're enabling her behaviour at the moment and you'll actually be doing her a favour you can get her to move out and start to be more independent. Some of the posters on this thread - you'd think she was 13, not 23 the way they are talking. She clearly has health issues going on, but can just as well work at those down the line living somewhere else.