Is there any solution to this?

[fedup21]

DH has over the last couple of years become very disillusioned with the state of the country-politics, economy, inequality etc and thinks (especially after Brexit) that it’s going to be shit in England for the non-rich so wants us to move. Ideally to NZ, Canada or America-someone with space from people.

I don’t want to move. The kids are settled here at school, all our friends and family are here and I’m happy here. I didn’t overly enjoy living away at university-it takes a while to make new friends, and I’m still really really good friends with people from years ago-the thought of starting from scratch and emigrating fills me with dread. I think it would make me and the kids utterly miserable. I’m not very adventurous and have never had any desire to go on a gap year, live abroad-that is no surprise but he is saying that he’s amazed that someone so risk averse (boring) like me is prepared to just stay in this country in this turmoil and condemn our kids to a life of misery and death. He says that we don’t have to move, but if we don’t-I have to have a plan for the future when things go wrong and there is no NHS or pension and things are horrendous. Apparently our kids will all ultimately move abroad and the government will have changed the laws and we won’t be ever able to move to see them.

To me, he sounds unhinged. I’ve told him that my plan (if he carries on ranting at me about this-it’s been going on years, but getting worse) would have to be to split up as I can’t continue live like this. His response to this is ‘thanks, you would rather split up than consider my happiness?’

Is there any solution to this? Am I being unreasonable?

He says that we don’t have to move, but if we don’t-I have to have a plan for the future when things go wrong and there is no NHS or pension and things are horrendous.

No.

You don't "have to" do ANYTHING.

He does sound unbalanced...has he a history of mental illness?

I can speak from experience as I did move to Australia with my Aussie DH BUT it was a mutual decision and he never tried to make me.

You can't make someone emigrate! It's a HUGE thing. I did it because I didn't have a lot of mates and my family has never been very active since my DC were born.

For us it was right.

I can tell you this...if ANY man started telling me I had to do something, he'd be welcome to leave at my convenience.

Start considering how you will manage without him. In fact, tell him to emigrate so that when the DC are adults, they will have a choice of where to live.

DO NOT MOVE ANYWHERE with him because the Hague Convention will stop you bringing your kids home if it does not work out.

Also...how does he imagine he'd get the right to move to one of the countries you mention? Is he a doctor or police officer or something?

It's almost impossible if you're not A: one of the professions they want or B: absolutely rolling in money.

I would never have got into Australia without DH....and his parents...the cost of my emigration was thousands.

Unless you are a high earner these countries are terrible for health care as you have pointed out. Schooling is also much higher and have to pay your way. Australia particularly bad not sure how many realises this when they move there.

If DH didn't have a step son living near by we would be moving abroad

Tell him to research these countries and give you all of the facts so you can weigh up the pros and cons of leaving/staying.

There's so much uncertainty in the UK at the moment but his views are very extreme in terms of the situation your children will be in.

But, if he gives you the facts, you can show him how difficult/unnecessary it could be to move.
Alternatively, you may even find yourself agreeing with him.

At least if you entertain the idea you'll both be able to make an educated decision together.

Taking out all of the brexit stuff, your DH wants to move and you don’t. It’s not fair to simply stay put as that would make him miserable, it’s also not fair to move when you don’t want to as that would make you miserable.

How about a compromise for him to stay for one year after Brexit and you to try living abroad for a summer?

My FIL has always wanted to move back to his home country but MIL ‘put her foot down’ and they stayed in the UK. It’s horrid to see him now in his old age and unable to travel to see his family and be in the surroundings he’s missed for so many years. I know it’s not quite the same but there is clearly a lot of resentment there and the same might happen for you.

If you don't want toemigrate, then don't. Trust me, I did it, it was one of the hardest things I ever did, and even though I went enthusiastically, I still ended up returning to the UK because it was horribly isolating and lonely.

In terms of 'having a plan' for there being no NHS or pension blah blah, I would suggest he takes the thousands he's intending on spending to ship you all to the other side of the world, and invest in a private pension and private health insurance. Both of which he would have to buy in the countries he's planning to move to anyway.

On a serious note, he sounds excessively concerned and more than a bit manipulative. In a healthy relationship everyone's happiness should be equally considered, but putting his happiness above his wife and kids, and shipping the entire family to the other side of the world, is disproportionate and unreasonable.

Thank you all for your replies.

I feel backed into a corner at the moment, like if I don’t want to emigrate, then it’s MY responsibility to solve any repercussions to us of Brexit.

I can’t see how to have a reasonable conversation about it and feel like he always knew who I was and what sort of person. Perhaps he’d have been better off deciding to marry the sort of person who wanted to live abroad 20 years ago.

But I’m also aware that I’m essentially saying to him, ‘poke up with our life as it is or we’ll split up’ and is that fair on him?

You're being fair because this was not on the table when you met him.

If you'd met him and then he'd said "By the way, my dream is to emigrate and have a family in NZ" and you'd still had kids with him THEN you might be unreasonable.

But he never said that did he?

You got together with him under the impression this was it...the UK was home.

Now he's changed...and you haven't. It's not YOUR fault.

Who cares if he thinks you have to solve Brexit?? You don't. Tell him to piss off.

Have you actually pointed out to him that America, Canada and NZ don't have the NHS either, and that as middle aged immigrants you'd stand next to no chance of building up much of an entitlement to a state pension there? Has he actually done any research AT ALL in to what health insurance, living costs and immigration fees would amount to?

Let him do some research into

(a) the feasibility of going
(b) the cost of going
(c) the cost of living

And a plan of how it’s going to work and be better because at the moment he has an idea that is unlikely to be feasible.

I think you’re being unfair to not even try it. I couldn’t imagine being desperate to do something and being told ‘no’ by someone. Then living my life thinking oh well, at least he’s happy.

I agree with Quartz - tell him to cost up the move, figure out jobs and schooling, find out the cost of living (including private health care he could just as easily pay for in the UK), etc. I bet he won’t even bother or will do it and realise it isn’t feasible.

It's pretty shit in any country for the non-rich so moving won't of itself cure any ills. Money is a great thing to have but if you don't & have no expectations of that changing in the future then you concentrate on making the best life for yourself where you are that you can with what you have.
It's not your responsibility to come up with plans to deal with any & all future events brought about by the government, global economics or crackpot leaders in some corner of the world, especially since his "plan" is simply emigrate.
He sounds like he has/is developing some serious mental health problems & would benefit from seeing his doctor. I've lived with depression for many years & in spite of the anti-depressants sometimes still slide into a doom-laden view of what's going on. A few years ago I kitted myself out with army surplus stuff - radiation suit, gas mask. geiger counter & all the other bits & bobs I reckoned I'd need for the imminent nuclear war Trump was on the brink of starting. I knew I sounded like a loony to others though.

In the same way that you 'have to have a plan' for staying, he surely owes you the same for going? Do as PP's suggest and ask what research he's done into the practicalities and costs, you may well find it's out of reach anyway.

It's sounds like he's really panicked and I feel for him. I think like everyone else, he needs a research project that will help put things in perspective.

I don't really understand his point about the NHS collapsing so he'd be better off somewhere else. It just means you have to pay for health insurance or pay for private doctors appointments. It'll be the same as overseas!!

Thank you again-I agree, the comments about the NHS aren’t really relevant if he wants to move somewhere where you’d need private health insurance anyway.

He is a very well-read and clever chap (lots of p/grad qualifications) believe it or not, but sounds unhinged sometimes over all this.

Tell him to get his tin foil hat ready!

Is he not worried about climate change and global warming? In the light of these issues there is no point moving to another country.

Does he like Trump's policies on healthcare etc?

How about he looked at something less radical like sweden or Denmark if he wants space and outdoorsy?? It is possible especially if you work for yourself , even post Brexit . They have a lot of Americans who live their for years and provided you register when you should, don’t recourse to public funds and pay tax etc, don’t seem to care that much. Very good healthcare, high tax but high services and highish wages. My H is the same by the way OP but then we have a business that Brexit in any form will impact . I think I would also say, see what the situation is by Feb next year, that’s what I’m doing but we have already checked out a fair few places .

If you don’t want to move at all I understand that but maybe keep an open mind at the moment and don’t poo poo his anxieties on this. The advantage of Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands is close to get back to UK, good healthcare , demand for well qualified people and a really good international/meet-up culture in the bigger places , doesn’t have to be forever, could be for a few years . I would however have to think much harder about Australia, Canada, USA etc

Not really a language issue either as 97% speak good English, lots of English kids at the state schools. My thing about Aus or USA etc is it’s a hell of a cost if it goes wrong whereas a move for us to Stockholm/ Copenhagen or utrecht say is much the same as a move to Edinburgh but we do have an advantage as no kids at home anymore .

I agree with the above:

@Quartz2208

Let him do some research into

(a) the feasibility of going
(b) the cost of going
(c) the cost of living

• your contribution can be sourcing the cost of private health care for your family.

It does sound a little bit like he’s getting completely obsessed with becoming some sort of separatist.

you would rather split up than consider my happiness?

He's only concerned about his own happiness then? What does he expect you to do - put your own feelings aside and spend the rest of your life miserable so that he can be happy?