DH suddenly becoming mean

[Mummy3574]

We've been together almost ten years and married for four. He's almost always treated me with love and respect. When we had a baby and I became impatient and quite unreasonable for the first year, he was so supportive, patient and forgiving.

Now he has been a SAHP for 6 months. On top of that he is a trailing spouse - he has followed me and my job to a new country. The two aren't connected (he became a SAHP before I got the job offer) but both made sense to do together.

Since he became a SAHP to our difficult toddler, he's become a lot more impatient and sharp with me. He's a wonderful dad, but well, he's not as nice to me any more. He sometimes says things that are unintentionally a bit mean or make me feel bad. I call him out, he apologises, and we're fine for a bit. I've tried to put it down to the stress of looking after our toddler. But it makes me feel less affectionate towards him. We just don't look after each other any more because we're so busy looking after our child.

Yesterday he became inwardly angry at something I said - we were on a bus having a really nice time with our toddler and I'd disagreed with a parenting decision he made. I could see he was furious - he sat down with a huff and then he said something to me that very deliberately unkind and very condescending - it was the most horrible thing anyone had every said to me. This was literally the first time after ten years together.

He came back later, apologised profusely, said it was unacceptable. He can't explain why he said it. I told him I could not be with someone who talked to me that way. We haven't had a chance to talk properly yet.

The thing is I don't know how much headspace to give this. I don't think this is who he is, but I'm scared this is who he becoming. He's always feared being like his dad, who can be very mean, and DH has always consciously gone completely the other way until now. I will try to do a bit more to support him at home because I know he's juggling a lot and is lonely in new country and stressed from dealing with tantrums every day. And obviously because I can understand how he must feel to be a SAHP and I can see he has it a lot worse. But I've always managed to keep my tongue on check before saying something horrible that I knew I'd regret. I'm really upset that he couldn't do the same for me.

We both have short memories for arguments thankfully, but I don't think I'm going to forget this one. I'm struggling to verbalise all my feelings about this. What's the best way to approach this? How forgiving should I be given the circumstances? I want to repair our relationship but I also have a low tolerance for this kind of behaviour. I could suggest counselling but I don't think we can afford it in the country we are in.

He’s angrily hiding in the situation he’s chosen. He needs a plan and the room to realise that plan but don’t let yourself be a victim of his inability to help himself.

I think you have had some interesting comments to think about already on here, so I won’t repeat what has already been said, but I do wonder about the financial side of things. Moving for work is usually done for some kind of personal gain. Many organisations offer extra payments to induce people to work away. Sounds like this is not the case for you. There are no reasonably priced toddler groups or childcare. Sounds like you have actually taken a hit for having moved. You would get toddler groups and 15 hours childcare free from age three in UK If your new country doesn’t offer anything similar or better, your company needs to pay you commensurately to make up for these things.
When people migrate, there has to be a benefit to it, otherwise why would you take yourself away from all your connnections and go to a place where making new connections is challenging?

What are the benefits of being here? Sounds like your DH liked the idea of the place but the reality of living there doesn’t meet expectations.

Procrastination is usually fear in my experience.

I like this article

I agree with Thistly. Maybe your DH isn't seeing the benefit of you moving to Asia - if it means that you are struggling to pay the rent and there isn't enough money left over (easily) for childcare or activities, then what was the point? Maybe you could talk over a plan - three years there and you will be senior enough or have enough experience to move back home? Having some kind of end point to work towards and knowing that this won't be forever may help him.

And being a SAHP to a toddler is grim, especially if you have no friends to share experiences with. It's like living with a tiny dictator who has hallucinations, and always trying to keep them happy.

Could you take a holiday from work, let your DH go home and reconnect with his family/friends for a bit while you take over caring for your toddler? He may find that 'home' isn't the fabulous place his fantasy may make it, and you may have more empathy into the life of a full time toddler-parent.

I disagreed with something he did that resulted in my toddler getting very upset and I was trying to help, and he was the one who was horrible to me, in front of the toddler no less.

Did you disagree with him in front of the toddler? There’s a big emphasis on him being mean in front of the toddler yet it sounds like you disagreed with him in front of the child. Do you often disagree with his way of doing things?

I think it sounds like you are both struggling. You are struggling with him being the default parent, and the way he is doing that, and he is struggling with the move, and possibly with you wanting him to do the parenting in your way.

@13mathanxiety i know I used those words. But I've been pretty restrained. I really don't nag him about getting a job, I just ask to have a chat about it every few months and encourage him to go for things that sound interesting. He has been on a rolling contract for several years, all of which were renewed at the last minute. Each fine, up to the point of renewal he was headed for unemployment, sand after each time he promised he wouldn't leave it to the wire again, so I think I have reason to want to talk about it and ask how the job search was going. He had a pretty unrealistic idea of the job market because he hasn't applied for anything. I was ok putting up with it until last two years when we actually had a baby and had more at stake, so I asked him to at least apply for one job a month in the last few months before his contact ended. He didn't and here we are.

Inside I'm pretty angry about it all, but I'm trying to be supportive because he doesn't know what he wants to do with his life. So yes, I do think I've been too soft of anything, and other partners would have given him a good kick by now.

Did you disagree with him in front of the toddler? There’s a big emphasis on him being mean in front of the toddler yet it sounds like you disagreed with him in front of the child. Do you often disagree with his way of doing things?

We are normally in sync about our toddler, but managing tantrums are difficult. I know we have to be consistent and not disagree in front of the kid (even though at this point he was screaming and probably want taking anything in). But in this case DH had directly caused the tantrum and I wanted to reverse the situation because I didn't think he was being fair to him.

But in this case DH had directly caused the tantrum and I wanted to reverse the situation because I didn't think he was being fair to him.

So you undermined him in front of the toddler? That’s what it sounds like, especially with your reluctance to just say what happened. Yet you are annoyed he bit back in front of the toddler?

@13Thistly you're right, we weren't offered a fancy expat package, and the expense of everything wipes out my pay rise. I should have mentioned we have the option to go home so we thought the opportunity was worthwhile.

For that reason DH is not going to go home for a holiday. His friends from work have also moved on to better jobs and his family live miles away so he hasn't felt very tied down to where we were.

@48AgentJohnson

He’s angrily hiding in the situation he’s chosen. He needs a plan and the room to realise that plan but don’t let yourself be a victim of his inability to help himself.

I agree. What can I do if he won't help himself?

I've gently suggested counseling when he went through tough times at work - I mean it is offered for free by his employer! He hates the idea of talking to strangers and paying for it. I think it would take a huge stumble, within him or with our marriage for him to consider it. Maybe I can use this whole episode to ask him to reconsider, but I think the time to do so was yesterday - I have a feeling he's moved past it already.

I think you're better off talking about it now when emotions are not so high. Your marriage is heading for a big stumble, isn't it? You're supressing anger - understandable - he's procrastinating and probably angry too. A toddler has a tantrum and his parents disagree about how to deal with it in front of the toddler. Sorry but this happens every single day somewhere, no parent is perfect. The things that it inflames are what needs taking about and much better to do that when you're both calm.

If he won't, you're a bit stuck.

@01lyralalala

So you undermined him in front of the toddler? That’s what it sounds like, especially with your reluctance to just say what happened. Yet you are annoyed he bit back in front of the toddler?

What I said to him and what he said to me are on two different scales. I suggested another course of action - he could have disagreed with me. Instead he said, by his account, unacceptable things. I don't owe why you're defending him.

I don't owe why you're defending him.

I’m not, I’m just not instantly jumping on your side either because when someone refuses to say what actually happened it’s often because they know it will change the tide of the thread.

You’ve been so vague your situation could be either end of an extreme or in the middle.

It could be that your DH was deliberately winding up your DC so you stepped in and he was mean, which added to the fact he’s being meaner than usual to you and lazy about finding a job or activities suggests he’s an arse.

Equally though you could have completely undermined him in a way that, added to your prodding and helpfully finding playgroups (but only free ones because your job move has taken you to a place where you are skint) and suggesting jobs, could have been the last straw.

There’s no point just saying “oh yeah he’s a prick” when that might not be remotely helpful.

It sounds to me, given that you say you were rotten to him for the first year, and he is being meaner to you for the last six months, that you’ve just got into a cycle of being mean to each other since becoming parents. Add in undermining each other, money worries and a huge move and it’s not that surprising that one of you has crossed a line. It’s an easy habit to get into, and a much harder one to get out of.

It sounds like you're being too soft really. Sit him down and discuss what would be best for you all as a family and once the decision has been made then be happy about it or change it.

He's got nothing to lose by looking and applying for jobs and him getting a job will give you more money to do some travelling and enjoy being in this country. If he doesn't want to work, then going back home is probably better because at least he'll have a social network and you will have a more interesting job with better prospects.

On a similar note to lyralalala--I can get why you said something to your husband if you felt he caused the toddler's tantrum (oh god why do they always have to do it on the bus), but I would add that lots of time the main carer (or whichever parent carried out the interaction being criticized by the other parent) already knows inside that they did something wrong and feel guilty about it, and being jumped on (however gently) by your spouse can make you feel like crap.

I'm not saying that justifies him saying something awful to you but your words may have hurt him far more than you are guessing. When I was SAHP to my toddler I was always stressed and at the end of my rope and being criticized by my H when I was making inevitable mistakes was just the last straw.

Anyway ... sounds like maybe his "stress bucket" is full to overflowing and really really needs some outlets. This sounds like a tough situation for you both and you have my sympathy.

I'm afraid that snapping at each other is pretty much par for the course when you have a young child. And with all this other stuff going on, it is little wonder he's snapped so viciously.

He's apologised and I think you need to let it go.

Because of previous experiences, I wouldny do what you are doing on this thread, aka trying to understand WHY he is behaving like this and then finding solutions for him.
All the talk about supporting him to find another job, stopping being too soft with him etc etc makes me uneasy.

This guy will NOT start looking for a job until he has decided thats what he wants. He seems to have no idea atm (and none when you were in the UK either). He might be ressentful or lonely but isnt doing anything to get out of that place of lonelyness.

The reality is that you can NOT solve the issue for him. HE has to do it.
What you can do is state clearly the things YOU have control over

• you can clearly state yur boundaries re the way he is speaking to you and pull him up on it evey time.
• you can offer your support when he has decided what he wanted to do
• you can talk about parenting and what you think is appropriate together BEFORE there is an issue (or afterwards when everyone has clamed down)
• you can talk about how parenting is shared (eg so you can be 'left' to parent to, even i you do t in a different way. Doing things differentky isnt always better or worse than what the other does)
• and finally but very importantly, you can sort out what is making YOU ressentful. And then see if if there are things that need to be solved together or if this is your own issue that you need to sort out,

You'll mostly be in shock OP I think? The usually nice man you know being a nasty person. I've experienced this recently, not with my husband but with a friend and it has been awful. They basically have been telling me something I do for them was always great and lovely then out of no where told me I'm shit at it. It hurt. No build up or anything, I'm just shit at it. I've had various apologises since but I'm too upset to say much. I kind of feel like why should I be nice and make an effort with anyone to be treated like this when they aren't in a good mood? We all snipe but low blows cut to the soul

@:40lyralalala

I’m not, I’m just not instantly jumping on your side either because when someone refuses to say what actually happened it’s often because they know it will change the tide of the thread

No you're wrong, his words were very specific, he was not just swearing at me, and I don't want to put something so hurtful down in writing on a thread that I have no control over except to delete it. I have had plenty of good advice without needing to go into specifics.

I would add that lots of time the main carer (or whichever parent carried out the interaction being criticized by the other parent) already knows inside that they did something wrong and feel guilty about it, and being jumped on (however gently) by your spouse can make you feel like crap.

That's a good point, thanks.

@Myriade

Thanks those are good points.

I feel I can't just let him crash and burn though. He has had extraordinary opportunities that he's wasting, just by forgetting to apply for jobs, missing deadlines, not bothering to finish assignments - he's destroying his cache and goodwill. I'm not sure it's depression either - it's more like laziness, lack of discipline, and lack of consequences. I worry that the longer his work gap, the harder he'll find it to get back into work when he finally finds the motivation to do so. Potential employers in his field are pretty conservative with plenty of candidates and I think a gap of more than a year will be hard to explain even if it's for childcare. The longer he puts it off, the harder it's going to be.

I am used to working so when trailing and not working my world easily becomes very small. If you aren't naturally extrovert it can be hard to make small social interactions into something more meaningful.
I am lucky my dc are at school so I can volunteer during the day and have more flexibility in trying to sort my life out, with a toddler you don't have that.
DH's company provides a lot of training and support for families doing this, because it is hard and hard to get right.
There is no shame in trying this and deciding it doesn't work for you as a family.
I do think that it is your DH who has to make this work for him, you cannot do this for him.

@Mummy3574, however harsh it sounds, you cannot stop someone from wasting their life. Just like you cannot stop someone from drinking or smoking.

And yes the longer he leaves things, the harder it will be. Im sure he knows that though. And Im not sure this is where he wants to be either.
You can take a horse to the water but you cant make them drink. You wont be able to force him to do x or y. Even if you do manage that, its likely that he will end up very ressentful about it. And he will ressent YOU.

The best you can do is to be sure he knows he is the one RESPONSIBLE for his life and the decisions he is taking.
So he is the one who is CHOOSING to not work and be a SAHD.
He is the one who is CHOOSING to stay in the country you are in, despite all the difficulties coming with it.
He is the one CHOOSING not to go and do his own things when he has the opportunity to do so etc....

You are not his mother. Dont treat him like a child trying to protect him and trying to make things easy for him whilst showing him what he ought to do/the right thing to do (beause, of course, as a parent you kow best)
And dont let him behave like a child who cant take any responsibility for his own life.

Obvs you don't have to say, but I wonder if you're in HK (as am I)? If so, there's a Hong Kong Dads FB group, and Geoexpat is a great source for meet ups (hiking, sport, etc) too.

For affordable marriage counselling, check out St John's - their fees are v reasonable.

Sorry if I'm wide of the mark with location, but your post about sky-high rent made me think you may also be in HK! There are so many resources here - it can just take a bit of time to dig them out! Good luck!