Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

DH suddenly becoming mean

88 replies

Mummy3574 · 08/09/2019 21:52

We've been together almost ten years and married for four. He's almost always treated me with love and respect. When we had a baby and I became impatient and quite unreasonable for the first year, he was so supportive, patient and forgiving.

Now he has been a SAHP for 6 months. On top of that he is a trailing spouse - he has followed me and my job to a new country. The two aren't connected (he became a SAHP before I got the job offer) but both made sense to do together.

Since he became a SAHP to our difficult toddler, he's become a lot more impatient and sharp with me. He's a wonderful dad, but well, he's not as nice to me any more. He sometimes says things that are unintentionally a bit mean or make me feel bad. I call him out, he apologises, and we're fine for a bit. I've tried to put it down to the stress of looking after our toddler. But it makes me feel less affectionate towards him. We just don't look after each other any more because we're so busy looking after our child.

Yesterday he became inwardly angry at something I said - we were on a bus having a really nice time with our toddler and I'd disagreed with a parenting decision he made. I could see he was furious - he sat down with a huff and then he said something to me that very deliberately unkind and very condescending - it was the most horrible thing anyone had every said to me. This was literally the first time after ten years together.

He came back later, apologised profusely, said it was unacceptable. He can't explain why he said it. I told him I could not be with someone who talked to me that way. We haven't had a chance to talk properly yet.

The thing is I don't know how much headspace to give this. I don't think this is who he is, but I'm scared this is who he becoming. He's always feared being like his dad, who can be very mean, and DH has always consciously gone completely the other way until now. I will try to do a bit more to support him at home because I know he's juggling a lot and is lonely in new country and stressed from dealing with tantrums every day. And obviously because I can understand how he must feel to be a SAHP and I can see he has it a lot worse. But I've always managed to keep my tongue on check before saying something horrible that I knew I'd regret. I'm really upset that he couldn't do the same for me.

We both have short memories for arguments thankfully, but I don't think I'm going to forget this one. I'm struggling to verbalise all my feelings about this. What's the best way to approach this? How forgiving should I be given the circumstances? I want to repair our relationship but I also have a low tolerance for this kind of behaviour. I could suggest counselling but I don't think we can afford it in the country we are in.

OP posts:

pegspurplecat · 09/09/2019 02:45

It sounds like he didn't decide to become a SAHD, it was just a consequence of him being unhappy in him previous job. It sounds like he needs to decide what he wants to do about his career and get that back on track. Doesn't excuse the meanness though.

mathanxiety · 09/09/2019 03:10

He sounds depressed, and I suspect it began well before the relocation.

You need to find the money to get your H to see a doctor who might prescribe ADs for your H, or refer him to counseling.

pumkinspicetime · 09/09/2019 03:19

*I was a trailing spouse. It is brutal to be honest. You are a nobody. You have no historical context with anyone. You are an alien and end up alienated. You loose so much sense of self. That is ON TOP of the expected loneliness and isolation that comes with being the primary carer of babies/young children. Add to that, Asian attitudes to men and women - well.....
It sound hard for you both. I highly recommend reading some of the old threads about trailing spouses to get good insight into how he might be feeling right. *

I am a trailing spouse and this post clicked with me. It is very hard and very isolating, particularly a few months in. I don't know anyone in this position who hasn't lost it at some point.

Lowlandlucky · 09/09/2019 03:50

He supported you emotionally when you child was very young bu your own admission you were impatient and unreasonable, maybe it is time you returned the favour bearing in mind he has given up his job and has followed you across the world. You do not have a monopoly on being emotional neither are you Queen Bee

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 05:05

Thanks for the responses, especially from trailing spouses sharing their experiences. It is really helpful.

We had a chat this morning where I mentioned some of your points and he agreed that getting a job might help him settle and feel happier. He's actually looked at a few opportunities already so I will prod him a little too apply for them.

*45pegspurplecat

Yes this is spot on.

@50Lowlandlucky thanks for your comment. Can I point out I've never been deliberately mean to DH unlike he was to me. I'm trying to find a way to stop this from escalating.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 05:11

And can I reiterate he didn't give up his job for me and follow me. He did not apply for a new job after his contract expired. We lost our childcare which was linked to his employer so we had no choice but to make him the SAHP.

I made him a partner in this move - I would not have gone if he hasn't been enthusiastic, and the initial idea of moving to this country came from him when he considering his job options (he didn't apply for anything). My job move smooths the way for a job for him should be choose to find it. And I have given up things too. It's a promotion in job title, but it takes me away from our HQ where everything exciting happens, and keeps me out of the loop of a bigger promotion down the line. We moved for the experience of living in another country, which he has never done (I have, several times). So I don't think I am being the selfish one here.

OP posts:

Fatshedra · 09/09/2019 05:20

Harriedharriet - - brilliant description of trailing spouse's life - brutal. And what makes it worse is the lack of empathy for or understanding of others especially the one with the exciting career.

He needs more than puppy rescue and if the toddler is so difficult it suggests the childcare isn't working too well either. Surely there is some expat sport or similar he could do on sat and sun while you are home.

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 05:26

Yes he has a sport planned for next Sunday. He doesn't get too involved in the social side even though I do try to encourage him to make some friends.

OP posts:

Fatshedra · 09/09/2019 05:29

I didn't mean the lack of empathy comment about you specifically OP more generally in the expat life. But being so isolated is not good for your mental wellbeing.
Could he teach or private tutor.

Jesaminecollins · 09/09/2019 05:42

@Mummy3574

Some men don't like being the main carer for a toddler - some do enjoy looking after their children while their wife works but not many imho. I myself did find caring for a toddler boring and frustrating but it is only a short period in a child's life and the years fly by and they will soon be grown up.

He needs to get back to work and you need to find alternative child care.

CatteStreet · 09/09/2019 05:46

I'm not for a second discounting the difficulties of being a trailing spouse. I have always worked, but have lived in dh's country since our marriage (European but often in far from cosmopolitan areas) and I do struggle with being the one that's taken the identity and consistency hit, the one who gets the brunt of people's subtly othering attitudes in daily life, at our children's schools, etc. It's really not easy. But it sounds as if your dh's issues, OP, started before you left, and the move has given them a niche to flourish. You sound as if you have been a great deal more considerate than many (probably male) people in your position would be, and you both need to be wary of falling into the trap of blaming it all on you and 'your' move.

I think counselling would be a good idea for you both, with a shared agenda of agreeing a short, medium and long term aim, certainly involving him rebuilding a career.

CatteStreet · 09/09/2019 05:49

'Some men don't like being the main carer for a toddler'

Neither do some women , but (as your further post suggests) they tend to have to get on with it for a while. I don't think falling into the 'isn't he good' trap and pitying/fussing around this man more than one would around a woman in a similar position would be good for the relationship.

CrumpetyTea · 09/09/2019 06:13

I can't work out from your post if he was mean to you before you moved overseas?
I think the SAHP /WOHP dynamic is a difficult change from both working- you are in different places emotionally/energy levels. And I think where it is a father at home/mum working other issues come into play. He may be asserting himself to counter feelings that he is somehow worthless as he is not supporting his family- you on the other hand need to counter feelings that you are not a good parent/no longer the primary carer. I do think its harder for a father to make friends as a SAHP - just due to the lack of other men around- although I would say that many men don't seem as bothered.

Aridane · 09/09/2019 06:29

Jesus, OP - have some emotional intelligence. The poor sod is a trailing spouse, SAHD in a culture that looks down on him and where he doesn't yet have a social circle. And you critique him on his parenting Yesterday he became inwardly angry at something I said - we were on a bus having a really nice time with our toddler and I'd disagreed with a parenting decision he made. And sarcastically tell him to 'have a nice day'. He probably feels like he's treated as not particularly valued staff.

Agree with counselling

Rockos · 09/09/2019 06:46

If it’s not working and putting a strain on your marriage why don’t you think about moving back to the UK. Move back to a sociable town like brighton where there are lots of SAHDs and daily groups where he can go and meet people. Really he should be attending an activity every day with your child. Don’t they have music groups or baby yoga or baby swimming or anything like that? Do a search for American expat groups in your area. I know you aren’t American but it might give you an idea of what activities are on offer. I’d say you both need to be much more proactive on getting him a daily social life. Is there anybody at your work who has a spouse at home? I’d say try and get that sorted before worrying about the mean comment. I would normally be jumping on LTB for that type of talk but I think your situation is distressing for him and with some effort could be fixed. If he had a regular group of half a dozen blokes that he could hang with I’m thinking he’d be much happier which would translate into your relationship.

Rockos · 09/09/2019 06:53

Ok. I just went to a website called meetup and typed in Tokyo. Lots of social groups. I don’t know which city you are in but do the same for your city and set the radius for 10 miles. If there isn’t a suitable baby group for dads, set one up. Seriously, I think a lot of your problems can be solved by combatting his loneliness. Time to be creative and proactive. Local dads running group, dads toddler coffee and chat group etc etc he should be going to those type of things every day. Send an email round your workplace. Explain your husband needs some buds. I’m not sure why you haven’t done that already. As a trailing spouse in a difficult country he needs much more support and proactive network building from you

AgentJohnson · 09/09/2019 06:59

It sounds like he became a SAHP by default of not wanting to work but it is work, a job that it doesn’t sound like he enjoys that much.

Being a SAHP doesn’t work for everyone and it can be quite isolating when it becomes a hiding place from the real world.

He’s taking his frustration/ sadness out on you and it can not go on. If he has issues they need confronting not projecting.

Stop being understanding of his behaviour because it isn’t on but you can sympathise and empathise with whatever is going on but he needs to talk to you about them.

Quartz2208 · 09/09/2019 07:34

I think you also need to look at your feelings on this. It’s clear that you are finding him being the default parent hard and you cannot underestimate how hard it is for him for you to disagree with him

LannieDuck · 09/09/2019 07:45

I got a lot snappier with my DH during the early baby years. I used to have bags of patience, and I spent it all on the babies. I'm only starting to regain it now (ages 5 and 7).

Did he do / is he doing all the night wakings and early morning wakings too? Sleep deprivation is hard.

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 07:53

Thanks again, finding the comments very helpful.

We both look up a lot of things for toddler to do on Facebook/online etc. Toddler classes are ruinously expensive (high rent) - we're trying out free trials to figure out what is best for them, it's just going a bit slow. I found at least one big social playgroup on Facebook with lots of fun events and keep prodding DH to join but he's not done it yet. I think he's a bit put off by the lack of dads. And SAHDs are really a minority here - most trailing spouses are mums.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 07:58

@53Rockos Seriously, I think a lot of your problems can be solved by combatting his loneliness. Time to be creative and proactive. Local dads running group, dads toddler coffee and chat group etc etc he should be going to those type of things every day. Send an email round your workplace. Explain your husband needs some buds. I’m not sure why you haven’t done that already.

Ha, we have an office of 6, only two others are married. I'm doing my best but I can't find his friends for him. I can't think of anything he'd hate more than me putting an alert out on Facebook asking for friends for my DH. He had to do some of this himself, but he's not taking my advice.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 08:04

@29Aridane

That's not fair. I've never critiqued him, he knows I think he's a great dad. I disagreed with something he did that resulted in my toddler getting very upset and I was trying to help, and he was the one who was horrible to me, in front of the toddler no less. I was not trying to be sarcastic, I was very upset and trying to keep myself under control in front of our child.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 08:05

@45LannieDuck

"Did he do / is he doing all the night wakings and early morning wakings too? Sleep deprivation is hard.*

No that's still me.

OP posts:

Original poster

Mummy3574 · 09/09/2019 08:08

Stop being understanding of his behaviour because it isn’t on but you can sympathise and empathise with whatever is going on but he needs to talk to you about them.

Both good points to think about.

OP posts:

mathanxiety · 09/09/2019 08:13

You seem to be doing a lot of 'prodding' and 'advising' and 'encouraging'.

I think this is his response: he's a terrible procrastinator .

i find it impossible to try to change him.
Could it be that resentment at your efforts to change him is contributing to a vicious cycle where you prod and he digs in his heels quietly but effectively, and also that the experience of being your project is related to the creeping meanness?

I think you should take a big step back here.

The most you should do is try to help him find a therapist if he agrees that he should talk over that issues that made him unhappy at the job he left. Or you could encourage him to find a life coach to talk things over with.

Flip

1 2 3 4